Immigrationboards.com - Archive

Archive » United Kingdom » Child Benefit for Work Permit Holders

AuthorPost
aadhi
Junior Member
Member # 6408
Posted December 07, 2002 12:21 PM
Hi ,
I am an Indian citizen and working here in UK on work permit . I understood that the Child Benefit and Tax Credit benefits are not applicable for me .
But , when I checked with social security center , the officer told me , I can apply even though the visa in the passport says 'no recourse to public fund' .
Any advice /example from members is highly appreciated.

--------------------

Regards

Thorsten von Thyssen
Member
Member # 4397
Posted December 07, 2002 02:09 PM
You are not allowed to claim child benefit but you are allowed to claim child tax credit (not on list of restricted public funds).

--------------------

-----------------------------------
...cut the bullshit please...

workerman
Member
Member # 2816
Posted December 08, 2002 01:01 AM
I have done a full circle on this one.

You ARE entitled to Children's Tax Credit which could be a maximum of 520 pounds for one year. This scheme will be discontinued next year i.e. 2003. So you better hurry and apply CTC while there is time!

Secondly, the new scheme is called Child Tax Credit. The application form for this one is different and you have to fill this in now to apply. Information is available on the Govt. official tax credit website http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/ctc/.

Further more, work permit holders may not be eligible for this new type of tax credit as it says on their form that only EU resident may apply. I spoke to them over the phone and they said I must apply anyway....since its decided individually or something....this is a grey area and I dont udnerstand it.

workerman
Member
Member # 2816
Posted December 08, 2002 01:03 AM
...one more thing... your tax code will change when you are granted Children's Tax Credit. This will reduce your tax deductions as well.
aadhi
Junior Member
Member # 6408
Posted December 08, 2002 11:58 AM
Sywahu and Tnavon ,
Thanks for your reply .
It has become clear that Child Benefit is of no use to me .
I understood from the reply of Sywahu that the Child benfit is the replacement for the Children benefit for year 2003 . I started working in UK just few months before . Should I need to apply for both child and children tax credit or apply for only the new scheme child tax credit .
Also, when this will become effective or in other words , when do I really see money from them .

--------------------

Regards

Thorsten von Thyssen
Member
Member # 4397
Posted December 08, 2002 12:45 PM
As I told you before, you will be entitled to the new CTC. It is almost the same tax credit as the old one. The only changes are that there will be more red tape (form filling) and more means testing (families with very low incomes will get more).

--------------------

-----------------------------------
...cut the bullshit please...

george_by
Junior Member
Member # 2445
Posted December 23, 2002 04:00 PM
Guys,

Sorry for raising this topic again, but...
I phoned Home Office and has been told that if I would apply for new CTC that starts in 2003, they may regard it as breaking 'no recourse to public funds' condition. They know that it is not in the list yet, but the person on the line spoke to the supervisor and then strongly advised against applying.
Has anybody got confirmation in writing from HO that they can apply for CTC being on WP?

workerman
Member
Member # 2816
Posted December 23, 2002 04:24 PM
Interesting.

The HO is all in all in most cases but I would have thought that if you apply for the new CTC, the CTC Office will look into the application and THEY will decide on it. They have an established a liaison I would have thought...but you never know.

In other words, the ball would be in their court..to decide whether somebody is eligible for it.

Now, CTC is not yet on the 'public funds list' currently. It is again, the HO office's responsiblilyt to inform the CTC office that work permit holders are (for reasons only they know, sicne we all pay taxes and CTC is a TAX RELIEF, NOT a public fund/benefit --> see Children Tax Credit) not allowed to get CTC.

Secondly, Child Benefit it still separate from CTC. So there is no confusion about this.

I discussed all this with CTC Office and they said "You can send in the application form and we will decide in January by sending you a letter".

Information from George is worrying. I think its worth writing to HO about CTC and 'public funds'. I had not thought about this since I was assured by CTC that THEY wil decide and THEY only.

If we are refused the new CTC, I think we should persue it till the end since it would be very unfair. At least I would. Why would we get Children's Tax Credit but not the new CTC. Its nonsense. And its not public funds either since its a tax relief on the individual tax we pay. Why is it different when we are from a non-EU country? I pay the same amount of tax as any EU national. I can understand no recourse to public funds/benefits but no Tax credit is just wrong.

Thorsten von Thyssen
Member
Member # 4397
Posted December 23, 2002 04:38 PM
This is an excerpt from the British- Indian treaty on income tax:

"Article 26
Non-discrimination


(1) The nationals of a Contracting State shall not be subjected in the other Contracting State to any taxation or any requirement connected therewith which is other or more burdensome than the taxation and connected requirements to which nationals of that other State in the same circumstances are or may be subjected. "

As you can see Indian nationals cannot be discriminated against (taxwise) in the UK.

--------------------

-----------------------------------
...cut the bullshit please...

george_by
Junior Member
Member # 2445
Posted December 23, 2002 04:49 PM
Thanks for reply Sywahu

I spoke to my tax inspector on this matter, and he read me some of their internal guidelines on this.
Basically, if you are not British citizen (or your spouse), you application for CTC will be forwarded to a specialist unit. They will then apply special rules to determine whether you are eligible for CTC. Those special rules are not currently available to other tax offices or general CTC helpline. But it has been hinted, for example, that one may be refused under some circumstances if they have not been resident in the UK for 3 years - though he was not sure about this.

One thing they are sure about - they do not deal with immigration aspect of all this. Both my tax inspector and CTC helpline said that it is between me and Home Office, and my 'no recourse' stamp does not influence the decision on CTC as far as Inland Revenue concerned.

So I phoned Home Office, and you know the rest...

Thorsten von Thyssen
Member
Member # 4397
Posted December 23, 2002 04:50 PM
Sorry the official title of the treaty is:

Convention Between the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Government of the Republic of India for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion With Respect to Taxes on Income and Capital Gains

--------------------

-----------------------------------
...cut the bullshit please...

workerman
Member
Member # 2816
Posted December 23, 2002 04:56 PM
That was quick and accurate.

I was told something similar. About the Specialist Unit. Why the rules for deciding such cases are not public. Who knows. Quite silly if you ask me.

I think of it as quite mathematical. Yes you can get it..no you can't because XYZ...as rule number N states in our immigration law.....

Tnavon, that was a good piece of information.

Kayalami
Member
Member # 5984
Posted December 23, 2002 04:59 PM
Until the Home Office lists something as a public fund you do not break the conditions attached to your stay in this regard if you avail of it subject to you meeting the conditions of its issuance e.g. CTC. Whilst it may be of some concern when someone at the Home Office who should know better says "its not on the list but don't apply for it", I would disregard this comment as an irresponsible one and not worth losing your sleep over.

--------------------

---audi alteram partem---

Thorsten von Thyssen
Member
Member # 4397
Posted December 23, 2002 05:12 PM
BTW, it is about the time to take this "No Recourse to Public Funds" to the European Court of Justice.

I am pretty sure that given the human rights high importance, the HO will lose the case.

--------------------

-----------------------------------
...cut the bullshit please...

workerman
Member
Member # 2816
Posted December 24, 2002 12:02 AM
Tnavon,

Thats exactly how I think but to be honest, most of the WP people here have got other things on their minds that take priority and haven't got the time. But an interesting proposition nevertheless.

I think that 'Recourse to public funds' is `justified except for Child Benefit which everybody gets except for the non-EUs. I have friends on WP in Ireland and there, every child regardless of status (except visitors of course) gets CB.

But to not grant CTC to non-eu workers is definitely discriminatory and biased.

Bringing up children is always expensive and if a kind of tax relief IS available, ALL working and tax paying individuals must get it. Regardless of nationality. Not just the privileged EU nationals. Thats our case.

want_wp/imm
Member
Member # 51
Posted December 24, 2002 08:58 AM
i remember once i read on this forum someone saying " if we use child benefits then it can/will create problems with ILR "

kindly search or someone comment on this

anonymous
Member
Member # 5425
Posted February 25, 2003 03:26 PM
Sorry for bringing up this topic again.

I called IND and spoke to them about Child Tax Credit for WP holders. The lady there put me on hold and consulted her seniors. She said that the general consensus among them was that people on work permit can claim Child Tax Credit. She asked me to double check with Work Permits UK on 0114 2594074.

I spoke to work Permits as suggested by her. The lady in WP had no clue about it. She told me to speak to the local benefits agency.

Subsequently I called the tax credit helpline on 0845 3003900. I was told that I should submit an application anyway. The application is going to be sent to a special cell set up for reviewing applications of foreign citizens where it is going to be decided whether it applies to a partular individual or not.

Nobody seems to have a definitive answer. The best way forward seems to be to apply for the new child tax credit then wait and see what happens.

Any thoughts on this? Meanwhile Has anybody applied for the new tax credit and heard the outcome from IR?

george_by
Junior Member
Member # 2445
Posted April 08, 2003 10:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by anonymous:

Any thoughts on this? Meanwhile Has anybody applied for the new tax credit and heard the outcome from IR?

Here is the end of another dream:
http://www.taxaid.org.uk/news/news589.html

britanny
Member
Member # 285
Posted May 07, 2003 11:45 AM
I know work permit holders from non EU countries who have been awarded the child credit tax. They applied because the IND told them to apply and they would study the case, and they have got it. So, it is still a grey area.
workerman
Member
Member # 2816
Posted May 07, 2003 11:27 PM
its certainly a grey area.

no one seems to be able to answer the query. I too called the tax credit office numerous times about this and they said "just apply and see what happens".

What I am concerned about (and I am sure most of you are as well in this situation)is whether the ILR application will be affected in any way if relevant WP holders are given CTC this year. And I have been told over the phone the my application for CTC has been approved.

Any comments guys?

Contact Us | workpermit.com | New discussion board

(c) workpermit.com 2001-2004