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Hi all,

I got my certificate last Friday. 5 Days passed- DIDN'T return BRP. Let's see what happens.

I still strongly believe that I do not need to return it because of the following:

1) I understand that I need to respect all rules and law which I always do. I don't believe that this new rule is applicable to me. My reasonable duty of care is to read all requirements at the time of my applicable and commit to them by signing my declaration in the form. The onus is not on me to visit their website everyday to see what rules have changed. If HO believes that a rule has changed that is going to impact me, it is their duty to communicate it to me either in writing in their approval letter or at the time of collection of certificate at the council.

2) I specifically asked the question about returning BRP to the registrar and she confirmed they have not received any such guidance from HO. This shows me that this is a transition rule which HO is gradually bringing it in.

3) The new form AN has a specific provision about returning BRP and you agree to it by signing the declaration. In this case, yes, if you do not return it you are breaking your commitment of the rule that you have agreed to. The form AN that had no such provision. So, I believe that this new rule is only applicable to those who submit their application under this new form.

4) There is too much ambiguity about this rule. Is it applicable to everyone? Is it applicable to those who got their naturalization certificate last year?

The above conclusion is just my interpretation which might be 100% wrong. It will be interesting to see if others have got a different point of view.

PS. I know you might say to just return it and avoid all this..... and you'll be absolutely correct!

Regards,
Eddy B.

On a more serious not why don't you want to return it? Or are you just standing up to the system

eddybaloch wrote:Hi all,

I got my certificate last Friday. 5 Days passed- DIDN'T return BRP. Let's see what happens.

I still strongly believe that I do not need to return it because of the following:

1) I understand that I need to respect all rules and law which I always do. I don't believe that this new rule is applicable to me. My reasonable duty of care is to read all requirements at the time of my applicable and commit to them by signing my declaration in the form. The onus is not on me to visit their website everyday to see what rules have changed. If HO believes that a rule has changed that is going to impact me, it is their duty to communicate it to me either in writing in their approval letter or at the time of collection of certificate at the council.

2) I specifically asked the question about returning BRP to the registrar and she confirmed they have not received any such guidance from HO. This shows me that this is a transition rule which HO is gradually bringing it in.

3) The new form AN has a specific provision about returning BRP and you agree to it by signing the declaration. In this case, yes, if you do not return it you are breaking your commitment of the rule that you have agreed to. The form AN that had no such provision. So, I believe that this new rule is only applicable to those who submit their application under this new form.

4) There is too much ambiguity about this rule. Is it applicable to everyone? Is it applicable to those who got their naturalization certificate last year?

The above conclusion is just my interpretation which might be 100% wrong. It will be interesting to see if others have got a different point of view.

PS. I know you might say to just return it and avoid all this..... and you'll be absolutely correct!

Regards,
Eddy B.

My wife attended the ceremony yesterday at wandsworth council. The naturalisation certificate was accompanied with the note that she has to return BRP within 5 working days or she may face penalty of up to £1000. So your forced ignorance for no reason is not a valid excuse.

Be safe and return it. Dont be such a BAD XXX

eddybaloch wrote: I got my certificate last Friday. 5 Days passed- DIDN'T return BRP. Let's see what happens.
Eddy B.

There is no try. There is only do. Go for it.

That makes two of us. I attended ceremony on the 20th and I've not returned mine either.
Not that I need it for anything but the new rule is simply not applicable to me. Some of us are just stubborn, right?

Count me in fellas. I haven't returned it either... Reason the page to return BRP was updated on 8th Jan and I was awarded ceremony certificate on 6th and so i applied for passport. So in principle they never asked me to return it during the whole process....I know lots of people who never returned it and even on obtaining citizenship traveled on BRP and have not yet obtained British passport.

Also I didn't want to be without BRP in case I had to travel in case of emergency as getting new passport still takes good 2-3 weeks at least and you just cant abode UK with citizenship certificate.
Lastly who will prove that the applicant has sent BRP and HO has not received it ? Is it lost in the post or applicant never sent it or does HO keeps the record that they have received/or not received from certain person ?

I suppose if someone is given a note that they should return in 5 days then they should

mkm12 wrote:Count me in fellas. I haven't returned it either... Reason the page to return BRP was updated on 8th Jan and I was awarded ceremony certificate on 6th and so i applied for passport. So in principle they never asked me to return it during the whole process....I know lots of people who never returned it and even on obtaining citizenship traveled on BRP and have not yet obtained British passport.

Also I didn't want to be without BRP in case I had to travel in case of emergency as getting new passport still takes good 2-3 weeks at least and you just cant abode UK with citizenship certificate.
Lastly who will prove that the applicant has sent BRP and HO has not received it ? Is it lost in the post or applicant never sent it or does HO keeps the record that they have received/or not received from certain person ?

I suppose if someone is given a note that they should return in 5 days then they should

If you have to travel, the BRP won't be of any use to you. It's invalidated automatically as soon as your BC ceremony has taken place.

eddybaloch, littlemaiden and mkm12

appreciate your pluckiness. Please let us know if and when HO sends you a reminder for the fine.

every £1000 charity donation (fine) would surely be used for good causes by HO.

r2d2bruno wrote:eddybaloch, littlemaiden and mkm12

appreciate your pluckiness. Please let us know if and when HO sends you a reminder for the fine.

every £1000 charity donation (fine) would surely be used for good causes by HO.

I seriously doubt HO will impose £1000 fine for not returning the BRP. This is just a ploy for discouraging people to not use BRP for travel purpose after naturalisation. If they do, then they are in the wrong. This people will be charged fine. Not the others.

More worrying thing will be about those whos naturalization refused and received refusal letter, are those need to send there ILR BRP with in 5 days as well.

No, as their BRP will continue to be valid.

How about if someone return BRP via free post envelope which has no record and if the post lost then how and who is blamed for and whether in this case the BRP holder still be penalized with £1000. Does using recorded delivery is wise and whether the BRP holder will be so generous to return its BRP with recorded delivery??

seagul wrote:How about if someone return BRP via free post envelope which has no record and if the post lost then how and who is blamed for and whether in this case the BRP holder still be penalized with £1000. Does using recorded delivery is wise and whether the BRP holder will be so generous to return its BRP with recorded delivery??

Recorded delivery is advised as you will have a record of the BRP being returned. This may cost a little extra over the freepost address (we'er only talking about a couple of pounds) but it gives peace of mind it is returned.

That being said, if people wish to send to the freepost address without using recorded delivery, then they should do it at the post office and obtain a proof of posting receipt which the post office will provide without any additional cost (you will need to ask for this). But for the sake of a coupe of pounds, I'd go with recorded delivery.

seagul wrote:Does using recorded delivery is wise and whether the BRP holder will be so generous to return its BRP with recorded delivery??

I believe it ultimately boils down to personal choice, and whether one wants proof of delivery. You have the option of doing either. I chose to return mine by recorded second class mail and file away a copy of proof of receipt along with the rest of my scanned application documents.

Just for the information of my fellow members, I want to keep my BRP as a backup for my upcoming travel in 2 weeks. I applied for my British PP last Friday so am very hopeful that I will get it before my flights. In case I don't I want to be able to board my return flight by showing my BRP and hopefully I can gain entry in UK by showing my Naturalisation certificate.

If I receive my British PP in time I will return the BRP straight away using recorded delivery.

eddybaloch wrote:Just for the information of my fellow members, I want to keep my BRP as a backup for my upcoming travel in 2 weeks. I applied for my British PP last Friday so am very hopeful that I will get it before my flights. In case I don't I want to be able to board my return flight by showing my BRP and hopefully I can gain entry in UK by showing my Naturalisation certificate.

If I receive my British PP in time I will return the BRP straight away using recorded delivery.

Haven't you understood what was pointed out earlier in the thread? Your BRP will be invalid automatically once you have attended your BC ceremony.

Casa wrote:Haven't you understood what was pointed out earlier in the thread? Your BRP will be invalid automatically once you have attended your BC ceremony.

Why would it matter though? For a visa national, they show their BRP to foreign airline staff who have no idea that it's invalid so they can get on the plane, and they go through UK immigration with their foreign passport and naturalisation certificate.

t123456789 wrote:

Casa wrote:Haven't you understood what was pointed out earlier in the thread? Your BRP will be invalid automatically once you have attended your BC ceremony.

Why would it matter though? For a visa national, they show their BRP to foreign airline staff who have no idea that it's invalid so they can get on the plane, and they go through UK immigration with their foreign passport and naturalisation certificate.

That is assuming the person has received his naturalisation certificate back after submitting it for the passport application. As an example, my supporting documents were returned 6 weeks after my passport interview.

CR001 wrote:

t123456789 wrote:

Casa wrote:Haven't you understood what was pointed out earlier in the thread? Your BRP will be invalid automatically once you have attended your BC ceremony.

Why would it matter though? For a visa national, they show their BRP to foreign airline staff who have no idea that it's invalid so they can get on the plane, and they go through UK immigration with their foreign passport and naturalisation certificate.

That is assuming the person has received his naturalisation certificate back after submitting it for the passport application. As an example, my supporting documents were returned 6 weeks after my passport interview.

Sorry, didn't see they had applied for a passport already. In that case the BRP is useless.

@ Casa- I understand that and I am assuming that I will get my docs before that. I also completely understand that I am advised not to book travel before the process is complete as well. I am just willing to risk it based on the average timelines of other people!

This travel was actually booked about 8 months ago and all I need is to show the airline staff my BRP so that they can let me board the plane. However, good news on the PP front as just booked my appointment for Tuesday so gives me 8 workings days after the appointment to receive my PP. Based on the average timelines on this forum, I should be okay. *fingers crossed*

Finally, thanks for all your help over the past two years- you have responded to my multiple posts on various topics. May God bless you!

Pleased to hear that you've finally reached the end of a long road. Enjoy your freedom.

I attended ceremony on 20th and was NOT asked to return the BRP, which is handy for boarding planes overseas unless the UKBA invests in US style pre-clearance at foreign airports.

fielddrive wrote:I attended ceremony on 20th and was NOT asked to return the BRP, which is handy for boarding planes overseas unless the UKBA invests in US style pre-clearance at foreign airports.

But what will you do when you arrive at your destination. BRPs are invalid after naturalisation, and you risk being fined £1000 if you try to use it. Don't understand why, you would use BRP after naturalisation. Passports are easy to get and comes within 3 weeks.

longshift wrote: But what will you do when you arrive at your destination. BRPs are invalid after naturalisation, and you risk being fined £1000 if you try to use it. Don't understand why, you would use BRP after naturalisation. Passports are easy to get and comes within 3 weeks.

I hear you longshift but for reasons I dont want to explain here, I want to be able to choose which passport I use when I visit some countries and to answer your question, I will use my British passport at the UK border.

I had my ceremony in Leeds this morning. Before closing the ceremony, they emphatically mentioned the new requirement to return BRPs within 5 days or risk the 1k penalty.