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My uncle (88 years old) was born in Pre ww2 Poland and as a refugee arrived in the UK in 1947 after spending the war in India under UK durastiction. He has lived in the UK since but has never applied for citizenship for the UK or Poland. I live in France and he need to travel to live with me in France due to his age. Any advice as to how I can get him a UK passwort. Thanks

Which citizenship does he currently hold? You say he was born in Poland but doesn't have Polish citizenship. Is he stateless?

Which nationality are his parents?

He has to become a British citizen before he is able to get a British passport.

Unless your uncle has a British wife you have not told us about, he can only be naturalised as British if he intends to live in the UK thereafter.

Regardless, you need to find out on what basis he is living in the UK. To that end, you need to find a travel document, passport or letter demonstrating that he has indefinite leave to remain in the UK. Without indefinite leave to remain, he cannot naturalise as British.

Herbert100 wrote:My uncle (88 years old) was born in Pre ww2 Poland and as a refugee arrived in the UK in 1947 after spending the war in India under UK durastiction. He has lived in the UK since but has never applied for citizenship for the UK or Poland. I live in France and he need to travel to live with me in France due to his age. Any advice as to how I can get him a UK passwort. Thanks

seems like he is Polish citizen as anyone who was born in Poland, he can apply for Polish passport.

http://obywatelstwo.eu/emigranci.html

boloney wrote:seems like he is Polish citizen as anyone who was born in Poland, he can apply for Polish passport.

I don't follow your logic here, as Polish citizenship is generally inherited, and not derived from place of birth or residential status of parents.

A more serious issue, in the absence of information, is whether he lost Polish citizenship (as the title implies he once held it) as a result of territorial loss, ethnic cleansing or some other cause. We don't know which country his place of birth is now in, and we don't know his ethnicity - he might be an ethnic German or an ethnic Ukrainian from Lviv. Given his age, I presume the objective is to speedily obtain him a passport, preferably an EU passport.

Thank you for all the useful information. He is a bachelor who was born in then Poland of Polish parents. I have found that he has a Polish passport issued by the Polish Government in exile in 1945. He has also had Travel Documents issued by the UK Home Office, but these expired in 1981. It is not his intention to leave the UK but if his health deteriorated and was unable to look after himself, coming to live with me would be a possible choice . I am just trying to think ahead.
Given the present problems both the in the UK and Poland Is it going to be quicker / easier to apply for British Citizenship or start the process of apply for Polish citizenship.
Thanks

Herbert100 wrote:Given the present problems both the in the UK and Poland Is it going to be quicker / easier to apply for British Citizenship or start the process of apply for Polish citizenship.
Thanks

It's fairly likely, that anything related to Polish citizenship would require dealing in person (either in Poland or in Polish embassy/consulate) - such is the way that most government offices in Poland work. It might therefore be less resource consuming to achieve confirmation of his British citizenship (or naturalization as such) first.
I strongly believe (unless for some reason the Polish People's Republic stripped him of his citizenship - in which case he can surely and justly gain it back, would just require more work and efforts) he STILL IS a Polish citizen (according to Polish citizenship laws), but he will need to confirm this by having official document issued (which unfortunately would be a bit of a hassle).

Out of interest (as I do find it amazing) - how has he managed to survive in Britain without any document certifying his id since at least 1981 (it is an astonishing thing for Britain, something that would have SADLY not been possible if many other European - more bureaucratic - countries)?

Herbert100 wrote:Thank you for all the useful information. He is a bachelor who was born in then Poland of Polish parents. I have found that he has a Polish passport issued by the Polish Government in exile in 1945. He has also had Travel Documents issued by the UK Home Office, but these expired in 1981. It is not his intention to leave the UK but if his health deteriorated and was unable to look after himself, coming to live with me would be a possible choice . I am just trying to think ahead.
Given the present problems both the in the UK and Poland Is it going to be quicker / easier to apply for British Citizenship or start the process of apply for Polish citizenship.
Thanks

It looks like your uncle is actually Polish.
He can apply for a Polish passport from one of the Polish Embassies in either Edinburgh, Manchester or London.
He will need to provide the following documents:
Formal requirements for a 10-year passport for an adult:
1. Passport application form - available in the Consular Section. Passport application has to be submitted in person (must be completed accurately in capital letters). Your signature must not touch the inner border of the signature box.
2. Original document proving your Polish citizenship: current Polish passport or/and Polish ID Card.
You can still apply for your passport if your current passport is damaged, lost or stolen. If your passport has been lost or stolen, it should be reported immediately during a passport appointment by completing an appropriate statement to help protect yourself against identity theft and to prevent someone else from using your passport. You should also report the incident to the police and obtain a police report or crime reference number. Passports reported damaged, lost or stolen are invalidated and can no longer be used for travel. Once a passport is reported lost or stolen, it cannot be re-validated.
3. You are required to provide a confirmation of Polish citizenship issued by the Provincional Govenor (if previous passport has expired before 1991) or Polish President’s decision of granting Polish citizenship if you never had a Polish passport or a Polish ID Card.
4. You must provide a PESEL number or Polish Birth Certificate and/or a Polish Marriage Certificate if you are changing your name following marriage.
5. If you are returning to your maiden name after a divorce you must present a Polish marriage certificate which includes information about returning to the maiden name after divorce
6. If you wish to change your name or/and surname on your passport, but not as a result of a marriage, you must present an administrative decision issued by a Polish Registry Office confirming the change of your name or/and surname.

What is a PESEL number?
PESEL is a mandatory eleven digits national identification number of permanent residents of Poland or for the temporary residents living in Poland for over 2 months based on the General Electronic System of Population Record. The PESEL number is compulsory for all passport applicants and must be requested during passport application.

Double check if there is a PESEL number in your uncle's expired Passport. Ask your uncle if he has birth certificate, this would also help. He should be able to use his expired passport to apply for a new one.

...
2. Original document proving your Polish citizenship: current Polish passport or/and Polish ID Card.
You can still apply for your passport if your current passport is damaged, lost or stolen. If your passport has been lost or stolen, it should be reported immediately during a passport appointment by completing an appropriate statement to help protect yourself against identity theft and to prevent someone else from using your passport. You should also report the incident to the police and obtain a police report or crime reference number. Passports reported damaged, lost or stolen are invalidated and can no longer be used for travel. Once a passport is reported lost or stolen, it cannot be re-validated.
4. You must provide a PESEL number or Polish Birth Certificate and/or a Polish Marriage Certificate if you are changing your name following marriage.
...
Double check if there is a PESEL number in your uncle's expired Passport. Ask your uncle if he has birth certificate, this would also help. He should be able to use his expired passport to apply for a new one.

PESEL was only introduced in 1979, so his passport from 1945 surely will not have it. I am not certain that using ONLY his passport issued by Polish government in exile would suffice (although current government does officially recognize itself as continuation of it), but no harm in phoning up the consulate and asking (I suppose his pre-war birth certificate might also prove helpful). There's however a very small change that during 1945-1989 he might have got stripped of his nationality (unlawfully surely, but would have need to be corrected then). Either way - contacting the consulate/embassy is the way to go for the Polish citizenship path.

adam_now wrote:

...
2. Original document proving your Polish citizenship: current Polish passport or/and Polish ID Card.
You can still apply for your passport if your current passport is damaged, lost or stolen. If your passport has been lost or stolen, it should be reported immediately during a passport appointment by completing an appropriate statement to help protect yourself against identity theft and to prevent someone else from using your passport. You should also report the incident to the police and obtain a police report or crime reference number. Passports reported damaged, lost or stolen are invalidated and can no longer be used for travel. Once a passport is reported lost or stolen, it cannot be re-validated.
4. You must provide a PESEL number or Polish Birth Certificate and/or a Polish Marriage Certificate if you are changing your name following marriage.
...
Double check if there is a PESEL number in your uncle's expired Passport. Ask your uncle if he has birth certificate, this would also help. He should be able to use his expired passport to apply for a new one.

PESEL was only introduced in 1979, so his passport from 1945 surely will not have it. I am not certain that using ONLY his passport issued by Polish government in exile would suffice (although current government does officially recognize itself as continuation of it), but no harm in phoning up the consulate and asking (I suppose his pre-war birth certificate might also prove helpful). There's however a very small change that during 1945-1989 he might have got stripped of his nationality (unlawfully surely, but would have need to be corrected then). Either way - contacting the consulate/embassy is the way to go for the Polish citizenship path.

Yes, you are probably right. The best option would be contacting the Polish consulate and asking them for advice. Don't use the email provided on their website as they hardly ever reply. Try to phone them instead.

Richard W wrote:

boloney wrote:seems like he is Polish citizen as anyone who was born in Poland, he can apply for Polish passport.

I don't follow your logic here, as Polish citizenship is generally inherited, and not derived from place of birth or residential status of parents.

A more serious issue, in the absence of information, is whether he lost Polish citizenship (as the title implies he once held it) as a result of territorial loss, ethnic cleansing or some other cause. We don't know which country his place of birth is now in, and we don't know his ethnicity - he might be an ethnic German or an ethnic Ukrainian from Lviv. Given his age, I presume the objective is to speedily obtain him a passport, preferably an EU passport.

Hubert said that his uncle parents were Polish so he was born as Polish Citizen, it does't matter if the place of his birth is in Poland now if it was in Poland than.

boloney wrote:Hubert said that his uncle parents were Polish so he was born as Polish Citizen, it does't matter if the place of his birth is in Poland now if it was in Poland than.

I'm beginning to believe the uncle is ethnically Polish, but it hasn't been stated. I'm still not clear on how the Germans of pre-war Poland and the Ukrainians of pre-war Poland for the most part lost their Polish citizenship. Was the process restricted to those who physically ended up in Germany or the Soviet Union, or were lists of citizens reviewed?

Richard W wrote:I'm beginning to believe the uncle is ethnically Polish, but it hasn't been stated. I'm still not clear on how the Germans of pre-war Poland and the Ukrainians of pre-war Poland for the most part lost their Polish citizenship. Was the process restricted to those who physically ended up in Germany or the Soviet Union, or were lists of citizens reviewed?

Correct, since the borders changed drastically in Eastern Europe and Poland actually has become a new country (Polish People's Republic) also citizenships have been changed (mostly by force). E.g. whoever by a certain cut-off date has found himself on Soviet Union territory was 'granted' soviet citizenship and his previous ones revoked (though truth be told they have already been non-existent for the past 6 years, from 1939 due to either Nazi or Soviet occupation).

My uncle was born of ethnic Polish parents and he is an ethnic Pole. He only spoke Polish at birth. His place of birth was in Poland but is now in Ukraine. During the war, approx. 1942, he was transported by the USSR to Siberia but released when Nazi Germany invaded the USSR. He was 12 years old then and travelled with his mother, my mother and brother. His mother was lost on the way with any identification papers that they had. He somehow made his way south an eventually arrived at the Polish Camp Valivade India. When India was given it's independence all the Polish children were shipped to the UK. He was issued with a UK certificate of registration February 1948, which was enforced until the Aliens Order of 1920 was changed in 1960 at which time he allowed to stay in the UK and work as a seaman, thus the need of travel documents.
I have contacted the link above for help but I have been told that a birth certificate is required and his old passport is irrelevant. But as the whereabouts of the documentation, Poland or Ukraine, is uncertain the cost of finding it will be several hundreds to thousands of Euros with no certainty of success. But I will now contact the Polish Embassy in London as my uncle live not far away from London. Thank you for the help.

I believe it is very likely that your grandfather would be granted Polish passport, as the government's policy is rather welcoming in such situations. However, the administrative way that you'd have to undergo would also be very 'Polish'. Go for it if you've got time.

If you won't get a proper answer from the consulate, try some Polish institutions, people there may be helpful:
www.zpwb.org.uk
www.spk-wb.com

This might be useful as well:
Koło Lwowian
238-246 King Street, London W6 0RF
tel. (00-44) 0208 7411 940 wew. 43

Herbert100 wrote:But as the whereabouts of the documentation, Poland or Ukraine, is uncertain the cost of finding it will be several hundreds to thousands of Euros with no certainty of success.

A birth certificate may be relatively easy to obtain if your uncle knows precisely where he was born. Apparently the Ukrainian authorities are used to digging them out for descendants of Poles who emigrated freely. Unfortunately, they are no use if the location is vague to unknown.