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Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:13 pm
by FREU
Hello,
Spent hours on the net, the gov.uk, and on here trying to find an answer but unsuccessfully. Here is the case: my wife is EEA and was full-time PHD student during 2000-2004 (on UK research council grant so fully funded and with a stipend). At the time, there was no requirement to have CSI. Can this period count as qualifying as exercising treaty rights? (since the requiremnet for student to have CSI came afterwards in April 2006)? The question is related to knowing whether our first child, born after April 2006, is already British or not (based on my wife's circumstances on their own).
Many thanks

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:38 pm
by noajthan
FREU wrote:Hello,
Spent hours on the net, the gov.uk, and on here trying to find an answer but unsuccessfully. Here is the case: my wife is EEA and was full-time PHD student during 2000-2004 (on UK research council grant so fully funded and with a stipend). At the time, there was no requirement to have CSI. Can this period count as qualifying as exercising treaty rights? (since the requiremnet for student to have CSI came afterwards in April 2006)? The question is related to knowing whether our first child, born after April 2006, is already British or not (based on my wife's circumstances on their own).
Many thanks
Yes it appears such a time may be used to acquire PR.

What was your wife doing in the year before or the year after her studies? (Was she in UK?).
- is it possible to identify a qualifying 5-year period (in UK) together with adequate supporting documentary evidence?

If you have this it is possible that your wife, with admirable foresight, automatically acquired PR at that time.

This may be of interest so quoting in full...
Periods prior to the Directive

The case of Lassal v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Case C-162/09 established that periods of residence lawful under predecessor provisions to those now found in Article 7 of Directive 2004/38 could also count – ie, if someone was a worker/self-employed or retained those statuses, or was self-sufficient or a student or family member of any of those). Thus, someone who had already resided in the UK for five years as a worker prior to 30 April 2006 could acquire a permanent right of residence on that date as the Directive entered into force.

Lassal also considered what would happen if, having completed five years as a worker (or with a similar right) before the coming into force of the Directive, there was then a period of absence from the UK. Ms Lassal, who was French, had lived in the UK and had a right of residence as a worker from September 1999 to February 2005. However, in February 2005 she returned to France to visit her mother and remained there for 10 months. She returned to the UK and after a period on jobseeker’s allowance (JSA), she claimed income support in November 2006. The ECJ decided that such absences should be treated analogously with absences after the Directive came into force. It said:

‘absences from the host Member State of less than two consecutive years, which occurred before 30 April 2006 but following a continuous period of five years’ legal residence completed before that date do not affect the acquisition of the right of permanent residence pursuant to Article 16(1).’


A different issue arose in SSWP v Dias Case C325/09. Ms Dias had also resided in the UK with a relevant right of residence for a five-year period before the coming into force of the Directive. However, she had then had a period, again before the Directive came into force, during which she had remained in the UK but had not been a worker, etc. or had another relevant right of residence. Had that period been after the Directive became binding, it would of course have had no effect on her permanent right of residence – those with a permanent right of residence are not required to meet any other conditions such as being a worker/selfsufficient, etc. Her difficulty was that during the period at issue she did not have a permanent right of residence (as that could only come into existence on or after 30 April 2006). The ECJ decided that her period of presence in the UK where she did not have a right of residence should be treated analogously with Ms Lassal’s period of absence. In other words, provided the period was less than two consecutive years, it would not prevent a permanent right of residence arising on the day the Directive entered into force on the basis of her earlier period of five years as a worker.
Ref: http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/permanen ... ce-settled

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:43 pm
by noajthan
This position appears to be reinforced by The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations, 2006
Periods of residence under the 2000 Regulations
6.
—(1) Any period during which a person carried out an activity or was resident in the United Kingdom in accordance with the 2000 Regulations shall be treated as a period during which the person carried out that activity or was resident in the United Kingdom in accordance with these Regulations for the purpose of calculating periods of activity and residence under these Regulations.
Ref: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... 003_en.pdf

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:02 pm
by Obie
Did your wife receive a residence permit under the EEA Regulation 2000?

If she did not, then your son is likely not a British and the Principles in Lasssl may not assist you.

The exemption from medical insurance was a UK concession, and in order to rely on Lassal, you will need to show that she held a medical insurance, in the absence of a Residence Permit, and unfortunately, your child will need to be registered.

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:29 pm
by FREU
Thanks for all your replies. I'll check further with my wife. For my part I was jobseeker during my first few months in the UK but I lost a lot of documents from that period to prove it (like interview invitations, rejection letters) However I could make a case for being self-sufficient (bank statements show it, and I never used any public services, not even went to the GP during that period) but I suspect it goes back to this CSI business.I had a life insurance paying for hospital expenses, would this considered CSI?

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:27 am
by secret.simon
If your wife was an EEA citizen and entered the UK before October 2000, there is a chance that she was stamped in with ILR, either on demand or by default. It is worth checking her previous passports if she was issued ILR under the rules before 2000.

If she had ILR, she of course does not need to gain PR as she will already have had settled status.

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:47 pm
by FREU
Checked her Uni records. She did work as demonstrator/invigilator at the Uni in complement to her PhD so she has P60s for 2000-2001 and 2001-2002. She also got her NI number at that time so from 2000. 2002-2003, she did not work but by that time I was infull-time employment so we could argue she did not have to have CSI anymore as family member of an EEA worker, or am I completely mistaken here? From 2004 she has been worker/jobseeker/self-employed thus without need for CSI anymore. Haven't checked her health documentation for E112 or similar yet.

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:01 pm
by noajthan
This may be of interest:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... Policy.pdf

Note section about Ziolkowski ruling &, in particular, para 13.8

Sadly it may be dealbreaker unless your wife had a RC as a student, issued mid-2011 (or before).

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:01 am
by FREU
What does a registration certificate look like?

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:37 am
by noajthan
FREU wrote:What does a registration certificate look like?
They are like a BRP id card now, earlier they were a vignette added into passport.

Easiest to google for images.

Re: Is CSI required for student PRIOR to April 2006?

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:39 am
by FREU
I had an interesting discussion with the Home Office. First, I dug further into my wife's PhD particulars. She had a fee-only RCUK grant and the for the rest she was actually funded by a private company via a research agreement between her Uni and the company, ie to do a specific piece of research. The agreement describes the research and she is named, and even cover possible time spent on the company site. This is starting to look more like a work contract (there is a significant difference from being sponsored). I explained all that to HO and they said as long as she was working at least 20 hours per week, then that could count as being worker. I was very clear with HO that she was not taxed (so no P60s) and only paid quaterly but they said it was not a problem as long as she could show the bank staements or something similar. If this is so, then we could make a case under 'worker' regardless of the PhD student thing. But if this is so, I am a bit surprised no PhD student on this forum reported trying that route (my understanding is that this not apply to all PhDs, only ones funded by an industry partner for some specific research, so I suspect a fully-funded RCUK PhD would be just a student). Seems too easy to be true. Opinions?