| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sierra
- thin ice -
Joined: 19 Nov 2010
Posts: 116
Location: eu
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject: what kind of residence card for visa free entry to ireland . |
 |
|
hi just a quick query
what kind of residence card for family member of eu national is entiltle for free entry into ireland
is it
a. any residence card issued in eu as eu family member residence card like first card for 5 years
or
b. eu family meber residence card which is permanent residence in host state which is given after five years of residence in host state to eu family member
as i read some where on forum card issued under article 10
and i think if i am not wrong that is permanant residence   |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
agniukas
Sage
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 637
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
EU1 application form - Residence card for 5 years - to the nonEU national who is a spouse of EU national
EU3 application form - Permanent residence card for 5 years (after completing 5 years on a Residence Card) to the nonEU national who is a spouse of EU national
Both of them allow free re-entry to ireland. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
newbieholland
Member of Standing
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 162
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can enter Ireland with a residence card (valid for 5 years) which is issued under article 10 i.e. family member of an EU citizen. EU1 & EU3 are residence permits issued in the Ireland and they are irrelevant for your query.
_________________
"The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
acme4242
Sage
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 529
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Article 10 card is the initial 5 year residence card
Article 20 card is the permanent residence card, you get this after 5 years.
EU directive 2004/38/EC and Irish Law only allows the visa exemption for
Article 10 cards not for Article 20 cards.
Surely this is an oversight, a mistake in the EU directive and Irish Law
The Irish Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 has been explicitly changed to
allow a non-EU family member who has a Residence Card issued by any
European member state, to enter Ireland without a visa as follows.
| Irish law Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2011 wrote: | 3. It is hereby declared that the following classes of non-nationals are specified as classes the members of which are not required to be in possession of a valid Irish visa when landing in the State:
(a) nationals of a state or territorial entity specified in Schedule 1;
(b) non-nationals who are holders of...
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen", as referred to in Article 10 of the Directive of 2004. |
Where does that leave holders of a Article 20, Residence card of a family
member of a Union citizen, Also known as permanent resident cards ?
am I missing something, or is this a huge mistake in the directive
| EU Directive 2004/38/ec wrote: |
Article 5
Right of entry
:
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an
entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national
law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in
Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard66
Sage
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 792
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As they say, the proof of the pudding... So I sent this one to the Irish Embassy in Rome:
| Quote: | Dear Sirs,
My wife, daughter and I are planning to visit Ireland in the new future. Our daughter and I are British citizens, while my wife is Russian.
We are permanent residents in Italy, having lived here continuously for over 5 years.
My wife was issued in 2007 with the Italian "residence card as a famlily member of an EU citizen", in accordance with Art. 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC.
This card, valid for five years, expired in May 2012 and was replaced by a "permanent residence card for a family member of an EU citizen", in accordance with Art. 20 of Directive 2004/38/EC, which I quote for your convenience:
Article 20
Permanent residence card for family members who are not nationals of a Member State
1. Member States shall issue family members who are not nationals of a Member State entitled to permanent residence with a permanent residence card within six months of the submission of the application. The permanent residence card shall be renewable automatically every ten years.
2. The application for a permanent residence card shall be submitted before the residence card expires. Failure to comply with the requirement to apply for a permanent residence card may render the person concerned liable to proportionate and non-discriminatory sanctions.
3. Interruption in residence not exceeding two consecutive years shall not affect the validity of the permanent residence card.
From my reading of the following, taken from S.I. No. 345 of 2011
(http://www.dfa.ie/uploads/documents/Consular/Visa%20Documents/s%20i%20%20no%20%20345%20of%202011%20%20immigration%20act%202004%20%28visas%29%20%28no%20%202%29%20order%202011.pdf):
3. It is hereby declared that the following classes of non-nationals are specified as classes the members of which are not required to be in possession of a valid Irish visa when landing in the State:
(...)
(c) non-nationals who are family members of a Union citizen and holders of a document called Residence card of a family member of a Union
citizen, as referred to in Article 10 of the Directive of 2004;
(...)
It seems that only residence cards valid for five years are acceptable for entry into Ireland, while permanent residence cards are not, which seems an absurd situation.
Am I to understand that for entry into Ireland with a residence card, my wife would have been allowed in six months ago with her old card while now she would be refused and would need to apply for a visa, or does commonsense apply at port in Ireland and my wife will not be denied entry?
Please find attached copies of both residence cards in question.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Yours sincerely,
Richard66 |
Only to receive this reply:
| Quote: |
Dear Mr. Richard66,
Apologies for the delay in replying to your email query.
The Italian permit of stay does not qualify as a residence card and therefore, your wife requires a visa to go to Ireland. If the trip is a short visit where you accompany your wife on holiday, then the attached is the list of requirements which need to be submitted.
If your trip is of a different nature, please supply further details.
As a citizen of the Russian federation, your wife may be entitled to avail of the Irish Short-stay Visa Waiver Programme. Full details and information are available at the following link:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Visa%20Waiver%20Programme%20Information%20Note%20March%202012.pdf/Files/Visa%20Waiver%20Programme%20Information%20Note%20March%202012.pdf
Please do not hesitate to contact the Embassy should you require further information.
Kind regards, |
And her residence card is clearly marked: "Residence card for a family member of an EU citizen."
_________________
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!
Last edited by Richard66 on Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ca.funke
Moderator
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 1411
Location: Zürich, CH (Schengen)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard66
Sage
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 792
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It is all very well to discuss, but does anyone know the answer? I can tell you the last people who know anything are the consulates and embassies. I am still to find one that gives correct information about anything. One might as well ask the baker around the corner for advice and, provided he is a member of this forum, will give a better reply!
Back to the 10/20, I am afraid that even my 4 months in Stuttgart (where virrually no one speaks any foreign languages (unless High German counts as a foreign language to Swabian speakers...  "Ich veschtehe ein biesle Hochdeutch!") is not enough for me to understand all of the discussion, though the gist I do get.
_________________
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ca.funke
Moderator
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 1411
Location: Zürich, CH (Schengen)
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard66 wrote: | | ...the baker around the corner for advice and, provided he is a member of this forum, will give a better reply!... |
My non-committal answer is:- Common sense tells me, your wife should be allowed to enter Ireland w/o visa, however
- strictly speaking she may not enter Ireland without visa anymore AND
- if you ask the Commission for their opinion you will get a "wishy-washy-maybe" answer after ~ a year or so.
Seems this is the state the EU is in...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard66
Sage
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 792
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ca.funke wrote: | | Richard66 wrote: | | ...the baker around the corner for advice and, provided he is a member of this forum, will give a better reply!... |
My non-committal answer is:- Common sense tells me, your wife should be allowed to enter Ireland w/o visa, however
- strictly speaking she may not enter Ireland without visa anymore AND
- if you ask the Commission for their opinion you will get a "wishy-washy-maybe" answer after ~ a year or so.
Seems this is the state the EU is in...
|
Ah, but did you notice that the visa for the citizens of some countries who are long-term residents of a Schengen (or UK) country, Russia included, is free?
_________________
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 4568
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard66 wrote: |
Ah, but did you notice that the visa for the citizens of some countries who are long-term residents of a Schengen (or UK) country, Russia included, is free? |
Slightly different issue in that this is part of the Irish visa waiver scheme to promote tourism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 4568
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard66 wrote: |
The Italian permit of stay does not qualify as a residence card |
I strongly suspect that the respondent has not understood. Your wife does not have a permit of stay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard66
Sage
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 792
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, I realise the fee vaiver is a concession, but still...
I realise the corresponcent did not understand, therefore I wrote again, pointing this out, but no reply so far.
_________________
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jms_uk
- thin ice -
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard66 wrote: |
Ah, but did you notice that the visa for the citizens of some countries who are long-term residents of a Schengen (or UK) country, Russia included, is free? |
| EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: |
Slightly different issue in that this is part of the Irish visa waiver scheme to promote tourism. |
| Richard66 wrote: | Yes, I realise the fee vaiver is a concession, but still...
. |
Can somebody point out to me where it says that visa waiver is applicable to the long term resident in the UK?
Last I remember reading was that it only applied to the UK [C] visas... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard66
Sage
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 792
Location: Italy
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jms_uk
- thin ice -
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
That is exactly what I was reading earlier today
But, sadly, it says only that fee will be waived, not the actual need for a visa:
| Quote: | Q15: I am a national of one of the countries covered but am a long-term resident in the UK or the Schengen Area. Can I avail of the Programme?
Nationals of the countries above, who are long-term legal residents in the UK or the Schengen area, will still require an Irish visa but will have the visa fee waived as part of the Programme. The visa fee is usually 60 per person, including children, for a single visit, or 100 for a multi- entry visa. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard66
Sage
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 792
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I did write fee waiver and not visa waiver.
_________________
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jms_uk
- thin ice -
Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard66 wrote: | | I did write fee waiver and not visa waiver. |
My apologies - someone else on another topic mentioned visa waiver and I just read it the same.
Now looking at the quotes in my first reply I can see that it was about fee and not visa.
Once again - apologies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Private Messages
Profile
Log in
