Which line?

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:34 pm

I've posted a couple of questions here and everyone has been very helpful. I've followed some advice and I feel I've finally made some progress through the beaurocratic hell that is immigration. Anyway, my stats again are as follows: I'm an American citizen that will soon be marrying an Austrian. We'll be moving to the UK next year. My question is when we travel to another EU country (specifically the UK to settle, not tourism purposes) do I follow her through the EU passport control and we explain/show a marriage certificate, or do I go solo through the non-EU line and present my paper there? What kind of a stamp do I receive in my passport (assuming it's not the 6 month tourist one)? Sorry if these sound painfully simple, but I have little experience in the area. Thanks!

Post by **Obie** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:05 pm

I am open to correction, but it seems you would have to go to the all others queue.

The UK are one of the 2 countries in the EU which doesn't allow family members of EU nationals to use the EU national queue.

I have expressed my displeasure of the treatment of EEA national non-EU family member some time back and got a kicking from a contributor.

I suppose you would need to go with your wife to the Non-EU desk and explain your intentions to the immigration officer (optional).

All the best.

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:16 pm

Obie wrote:I am open to correction, but it seems you would have to go to the all others queue.

The UK are one of the 2 countries in the EU which doesn't allow family members of EU nationals to use the EU national queue.

I have expressed my displeasure of the treatment of EEA national non-EU family member some time back and got a kicking from a contributor.

I suppose you would need to go with your wife to the Non-EU desk and explain your intentions to the immigration officer (optional).

All the best.

Whenever we come through Heathrow (with my husband), we use the EU line without any problems (so far). But I guess it also depends on the mood of the IO. If the non-EU line is not too long (which is quite rare), probably best to go there. But if it's long and winded, going through the EU one (with your partner) shouldn't be too hard.

Post by **Obie** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:40 pm

That is interesting and new to my ears. I suppose it is up to the Immigration officer anyway.

I remember when i first came to the UK with my sister, who is British.

I was then a young child (minor) after my providing parent passed. My sister was told to go and queue with me at the all others, in an uncompromising manner.

When i became adolescent, i made a similar trip overseas with my aunt who is french, and she was told the same when she came with me.

However this is an event that occured about 5-6 years ago, so i wouldn't be surprised if things have changed.

I would like to think Rozen, that your case is the rule and not an exception, but i am yet to be convinced.

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:00 pm

Thanks...I suppose it will be up to how long the lines are that determines how I gamble with it. I was sort of hoping to "move up" to the EU passport line, haha, but that's not the end of the world. Any idea on how they stamp your passport?

esharknz · Post by **esharknz** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:31 pm

I went through the Eu queue with my irish fiancee at Heathrow in December. We did actually ask an official before we queued up too.

Think it might depend on the mood of the officer at the time. A nice guard let me through the EU queue at Dublin airport that same day (non-Eu line stretched out the door). Probably because I looked like some train wreck (came in direct from Auckland, New Zealand).

charles4u · Post by **charles4u** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:43 am

Rozen wrote: Whenever we come through Heathrow (with my husband), we use the EU line without any problems (so far). But I guess it also depends on the mood of the IO. If the non-EU line is not too long (which is quite rare), probably best to go there. But if it's long and winded, going through the EU one (with your partner) shouldn't be too hard.

You mean you went to UK WITHOUT A VISA (EEA FAMILY PERMIT) ?

You went with just A RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER OF AN EU ?

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:28 am

charles4u wrote: You mean you went to UK WITHOUT A VISA (EEA FAMILY PERMIT) ?
You went with just A RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER OF AN EU ?

Charles, I think what rozen is saying is that her non-EU spouse joins the EU queue when they travel together. This doesn't necessarily exclude one from holding the necessary entry permit, as passports still get checked. It just means that clearance through immigration is a lot quicker.

Rozen · Post by **Rozen** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:18 am

Plum70 wrote:
charles4u wrote: You mean you went to UK WITHOUT A VISA (EEA FAMILY PERMIT) ?
You went with just A RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER OF AN EU ?
Charles, I think what rozen is saying is that her non-EU spouse joins the EU queue when they travel together. This doesn't necessarily exclude one from holding the necessary entry permit, as passports still get checked. It just means that clearance through immigration is a lot quicker.

Thank you Plum70. You got it in one! (Apart from the fact that I'm the non-EU spouse

)

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:12 pm

Rozen-
I'm sorry, but what nationality are you again? How do they stamp your passport? Thanks!

charles4u · Post by **charles4u** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:10 pm

Plum70 wrote:
charles4u wrote: You mean you went to UK WITHOUT A VISA (EEA FAMILY PERMIT) ?
You went with just A RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER OF AN EU ?
Charles, I think what rozen is saying is that her non-EU spouse joins the EU queue when they travel together. This doesn't necessarily exclude one from holding the necessary entry permit, as passports still get checked. It just means that clearance through immigration is a lot quicker.

Got ya!!!

whirly · Post by **whirly** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:15 pm

Sorry to jump in on this topic mid-thread, but my experience has been like Rozen's. Am now a USA/UK dual national, but while I was still on my spouse visa/ILR, I used to use the EU queue with my British husband. I got a few grumpy immigration officers on occasion, but no one made me move to the non-EU queue. Recently we visited my family in San Francisco and my husband was able to go with me through the USA citizen queue - I think a lot depends on the airport, numbers of people in each queue and the mood of the officers at the time.

ejw4h9: You were also asking about how they stamp passports. I had my spouse visa/ILR so they just stamped my passport with the date after checking the relevant pages. Are you applying for an EEA family permit since your partner is Austrian? Will you have it before you enter the UK? Are you coming from Austria/USA/other?

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:32 pm

Whirly-

Thanks a lot for the helpful info! We're staying here (Austria) through next summer. I'm going to have my familienaufenthaltstitel (family/spouse residence permit) from Austria and we will enter the UK. After we enter, I'll apply for my EEA permit. I'm thinking this is the necessary and correct order of things. How was your experience with acquiring UK nationality?

whirly · Post by **whirly** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:55 pm

ejw4h9 wrote:Whirly-

Thanks a lot for the helpful info! We're staying here (Austria) through next summer. I'm going to have my familienaufenthaltstitel (family/spouse residence permit) from Austria and we will enter the UK. After we enter, I'll apply for my EEA permit. I'm thinking this is the necessary and correct order of things. How was your experience with acquiring UK nationality?

Hi again,

AFAIK your plan sounds right. As long as you enter with your partner and all the relevant docs, I think you can try either the EU or non-EU queue as advised above.

My experience with naturalisation was, all things considered, relatively painless. Expensive, but painless. I had 1.5 years' residence as a student before moving to a 2 year spouse visa, so I was able to apply for citizenship right after getting ILR. I got my citizenship almost exactly 4 years to the day after I came here. Your case will take longer since you'll be on the EU route instead of UK route; they're also changing the law soon which will make it longer for all immigrants to naturalise (boo hiss - search the forum for details). But on the plus side, your family permit will be free...

Best of luck!

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:04 pm

ejw4h9 wrote: After we enter, I'll apply for my EEA permit. I'm thinking this is the necessary and correct order of things. How was your experience with acquiring UK nationality?

After you enter the UK, what you will be applying for is a UK Residence Card (EEA2). The EEA family permit is "entry clearance" granted outside the UK only.

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:06 pm

Rozen wrote:(Apart from the fact that I'm the non-EU spouse )

I took a gamble on that one

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:44 pm

Plum-

Thanks a lot for the correction. I've been reading about the UK's immigration situation for months now and I'm still a bit off on everything.

Whirly-

It sounds like you went through it in the minimum amount of time necessary! I must say congratulations...I'm beginning to understand the headaches associated with international relocation and have to give credit to anyone that fulfills their goals. From the way I understand it, I'll receive ILR after five years, the same as my Austrian partner. I know that it is automatically granted to her after the five year time period, but I'm assuming there will be more to it. My biggest issue is that I'm wanting to apply to be a constable or prison officer as I'm finishing my degree soon. Their websites state that you must be free from immigration control OR have ILR in order to be eligible. I've tried emailing them to determine whether I would be "free from immigration control" even though I won't have ILR. Ahh, the search for more information continues. Thanks again!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:25 pm

ejw4h9 wrote:Their websites state that you must be free from immigration control OR have ILR in order to be eligible. I've tried emailing them to determine whether I would be "free from immigration control" even though I won't have ILR.

EU nationals and their family members are not considered as subject to immigration control.

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/jobs/Nat ... ments.aspx

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:35 pm

benifa-

YOU ARE AMAZING! I've been searching for clarity on the issue for a long time and haven't found something this concrete. The information on the sites (NI Police Service, HM Prison Service and UK Police) give conflicting information about whether one needs ILR or just be free from immigration control. I have sent specific emails to them and continually receive copy/pasted sections that are on their sites. The last hurdle is that some departments require 3 years residency prior to application, but that is fairly non-negotiable. It looks like I can at apply to those that don't though! Thanks again!!!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:38 pm

Not at all.

Off the top of my head, those able to work in the Police force or Civil Service, are:

British citizens,
Irish citizens,
Commonwealth citizens,
EEA nationals and their family members.

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:47 pm

That's now what I think as well! On the HM Prison Service site:
http://www.hmprisonservice.gov.uk/caree ... igibility/
it says that I'm allowed to apply as a spouse of an EEA member. Under the immigration section, however, it claims that

"Candidates for Prison Officer posts or those applying under the Intensive Development Scheme must have indefinite leave to remain in the UK."

They also require 3 years residency prior to applying...but if I can be properly vetted, then it's case by case. It looks like I'll have to apply and find out. The ultimate goal is to serve as a constable, but I was thinking that this might be easier without ILR, but I now may not need that to apply as a PC. I'm re-researching things now and checking my notes. Thanks again!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:52 pm

I'm not really sure then. Perhaps certain posts are stricter than others. Fingers crossed for you anyway.

Good luck!

ejw4h9 · Post by **ejw4h9** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:57 pm

Thanks for the encouragement...I'm still a year away, but I'll be sure to post my results on everything else. There isn't a whole lot of info out there in English on the Austrian immigration system, and I'm about 1/3 of the way through to legitimizing it all, so I'll post the procedure when I'm further along. Thanks again for your help!

Plum70 · Post by **Plum70** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:25 am

benifa wrote: EU nationals and their family members are not considered as subject to immigration control.

Non-EEA family members inclusive? I presumed that though a non-EEA family member could reside indefinitely with their EU spouse in the UK, they remain subject to immigration control until they automatically attain PR after 5 years residence. Incorrect?

Post by **Obie** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:51 am

I think "Subject to immigration control" is a national immigration rule concept which applies to people who are not in possession of British Passport or ILR.

EEA national and their non-EEA national family members are not subject to National immigration Laws and hence cannot be subjection to "immigration Control" a "Freedom of Movement" rights exist under EU law , which provide safeguards for these categories of people.

Open to any constructive correction.

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Which line?

Which line?