British & Filipino [Fiancée] settle in Spain or Worldwide

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:24 pm

Hello

The situation is not evolving favourably for you.

If you wait 2021, you will have only 1 country you can go back to with your other half: United Kingdom.

British passport is probably one of the worst when it comes to bringing partners/spouses. You will have to go through the UK routes. It requires a certain yearly revenue plus appropriate accommodation. If you feel you may fit in, that's fine.

If you believe you won't qualify in the UK, you have to take serious decisions today.

You can go to Spain. Thai are not going to prevent you from boarding a British Airways flight with your British passport. Establish yourself in Spain quickly and register with local authorities. Then, you can bring your wife. This means you are separated a few months, but it's better for you in the long run.

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:24 pm

If you wait 2021, you will have only 1 country you can go back to with your other half: United Kingdom.

You can go to Spain. Thai are not going to prevent you from boarding a British Airways flight with your British passport. Establish yourself in Spain quickly and register with local authorities. Then, you can bring your wife. This means you are separated a few months, but it's better for you in the long run.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:31 pm

OP is living in England and not married to his girlfriend. Makes it much harder for any EU country.

Ukandfilipino wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:18 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:31 pm

OP is living in England and not married to his girlfriend. Makes it much harder for any EU country.

CR001 this is correct, and for this reason I was wondering about maybe Denmark or Netherlands, at least to get into the EU initially and get married. I don't think we could get married in Netherlands, but I think Denmark is feasible perhaps?

ALKB wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:27 pm

Now to post-marriage plans. Why do you think you will have to have resided in Spain for a year before your spouse could apply?

Also, if you want to go to Spain, then going somewhere else first is not a good idea.

Moving to the EU before 31st December 2020 will not preserve freedom of movement for you and your family members, it will only let you (and your family members) obtain a residence permit under the withdrawal agreement in the country where you reside on 31st December 2020, it will not necessarily facilitate moving within the EU at a later date.

Going first to, say, Belgium to move to Spain later on may be a lot harder than moving to Spain before 31st December.

Are you working remotely as an employee or are you self-employed?

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:41 am

Spain could be a solution for you but you need to start moving now. You don't have much time before your British passport won't give you any immigration edge to European countries.

If point 2 is correct, by the time I have lived there for one year I will no longer be an EU citizen and therefore I cannot bring my spouse in the same way an EU citizen could

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:42 pm

If point 2 is correct, by the time I have lived there for one year I will no longer be an EU citizen and therefore I cannot bring my spouse in the same way an EU citizen could

Not really. If you move now to Spain and acquire a residence right, you secure some rights no matter what happens in the future. You be still able to marry with your other half at one point and bring her to Spain under some rules.

Otherwise, if you stay in the UK, within just a few months, you will be stuck with the British immigration system.

The Withdrawal Agreement establishes a transition period from the withdrawal date to 31 December 2020.

All UK nationals and their family members who are third-country nationals resident in Spain before the end of the transition period will maintain in perpetuity their rights arising from the application of EU Law (except for the right to vote in or stand for elections to the European Parliament and the exercise of the EU Citizen's Initiative).

The Withdrawal Agreement offers two possibilities for dealing with the documentation process: (1) Establish a procedure by which the above residents and their family members must apply for a new residence permit in the host nation (Article 18.1); (2) Not initiate this procedure and issue a residence document that expressly identifies citizens as beneficiaries of the Agreement (Article 18.4).

Zerubbabel wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:58 pm

It will be hard to get more clarification as we are in the middle of a changing situation.

Once in Spain, you will probably be granted a residence permit under the Withdrawal Agreement. And here is the good news:

The Withdrawal Agreement establishes a transition period from the withdrawal date to 31 December 2020.

All UK nationals and their family members who are third-country nationals resident in Spain before the end of the transition period will maintain in perpetuity their rights arising from the application of EU Law (except for the right to vote in or stand for elections to the European Parliament and the exercise of the EU Citizen's Initiative).

The Withdrawal Agreement offers two possibilities for dealing with the documentation process: (1) Establish a procedure by which the above residents and their family members must apply for a new residence permit in the host nation (Article 18.1); (2) Not initiate this procedure and issue a residence document that expressly identifies citizens as beneficiaries of the Agreement (Article 18.4).

https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/lang/en/br ... dence.aspx

It means you will be always seen as an EU citizen for the purpose of immigration. It's a right you get for life if you move to Spain asap.

You can then wait for the dust to settle and marry you other half then bring her under EU laws even if you are no longer an EU citizen.

bring her over immediately on durable relationship grounds, and get married.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:51 pm

bring her over immediately on durable relationship grounds, and get married.

You need to be careful. There are specific requirements you have to meet to apply as a durable partner. Also note that not all EU countries recognised durable partners either.

How long have you been in a relationship? Have you physically met each other in person? Have you ever lived together (not visiting, lived)?

Ukandfilipino wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:11 am

ALKB wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:27 pm

Now to post-marriage plans. Why do you think you will have to have resided in Spain for a year before your spouse could apply?

Also, if you want to go to Spain, then going somewhere else first is not a good idea.

Moving to the EU before 31st December 2020 will not preserve freedom of movement for you and your family members, it will only let you (and your family members) obtain a residence permit under the withdrawal agreement in the country where you reside on 31st December 2020, it will not necessarily facilitate moving within the EU at a later date.

Going first to, say, Belgium to move to Spain later on may be a lot harder than moving to Spain before 31st December.

Are you working remotely as an employee or are you self-employed?

ALKB, thank you very much for your response, the Denmark part is something we need to research further to at least get married there, then move on

Third party solicitor weblink removed by moderator

This link indicates that you must live there for 1 year, I cannot comment on its legitimacy but I don't see why it would lie

"You can only start the application procedure when you have lived legally in Spain for one year with your residence permit and have renewed it for the first time."

This is why I was looking at immediate options for now, and move to Spain later. The most important thing is that we are together, regardless of where we are located

Spain would also be ideal because as a Filipino citizen, she can get citizenship in Spain after 2 years due to Philippines being a historic Spanish colony. This would then allow me to piggyback her citizenship when I am no longer an EU member in a reversal of circumstances

I currently do not work remotely and I am an employee, but my company is flexible in that regard, I could just as easily be a contractor/self-employed if needed, or still remain an employee depending on what I need to be to suit wherever I end up

ALKB wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:29 pm

Ukandfilipino wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:11 am

ALKB wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:27 pm

Now to post-marriage plans. Why do you think you will have to have resided in Spain for a year before your spouse could apply?

Also, if you want to go to Spain, then going somewhere else first is not a good idea.

Moving to the EU before 31st December 2020 will not preserve freedom of movement for you and your family members, it will only let you (and your family members) obtain a residence permit under the withdrawal agreement in the country where you reside on 31st December 2020, it will not necessarily facilitate moving within the EU at a later date.

Going first to, say, Belgium to move to Spain later on may be a lot harder than moving to Spain before 31st December.

Are you working remotely as an employee or are you self-employed?

ALKB, thank you very much for your response, the Denmark part is something we need to research further to at least get married there, then move on

Third party solicitor weblink removed by moderator

This link indicates that you must live there for 1 year, I cannot comment on its legitimacy but I don't see why it would lie

"You can only start the application procedure when you have lived legally in Spain for one year with your residence permit and have renewed it for the first time."

This is why I was looking at immediate options for now, and move to Spain later. The most important thing is that we are together, regardless of where we are located

Spain would also be ideal because as a Filipino citizen, she can get citizenship in Spain after 2 years due to Philippines being a historic Spanish colony. This would then allow me to piggyback her citizenship when I am no longer an EU member in a reversal of circumstances

I currently do not work remotely and I am an employee, but my company is flexible in that regard, I could just as easily be a contractor/self-employed if needed, or still remain an employee depending on what I need to be to suit wherever I end up

The link to the third party solicitor has rightly been removed, so I can't read what you have read, but I have googled and from what I can tell, is that this is a rule that applies to third country nationals (neither Spanish nor EU). The whole point of EU Freedom of Movement is that EU nationals can easily move within the EU and bring their non-EEA family members with them without having to wait.

UK nationals will still be able to move under rules akin to Freedom of Movement until the end of this year - the real problem here is, that you are not married, yet. As I understand it, you could move to Spain under the withdrawal agreement, marry as soon as it's possible and then apply for your spouse to join you right away, again under the rules of the withdrawal agreement. The tricky part is, that it seems that your non-EEA family member (in this case spouse) seems to have to arrive in Spain before the end of the withdrawal agreement.

Info from UK government:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-s ... -agreement

Info from Spanish government:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/wp-co ... -FAQs-.pdf

Ukandfilipino wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:38 pm

Thank you for this, I was not aware that this applied only to non EU nationals... In that case this might be a good option. In the immediate as you pointed out there is still the problem of being an unmarried couple

I'm not sure if it would be a waste of time applying as fiancée and explain the predicament, demonstrate the wedding bookings etc that got cancelled... Or if it is simply a box they have to tick to which they will put "not married, no entry."

It seems silly to move to an EU country that would allow unmarried partners, and then move on from there... But unless Spanish immigration would take pity it might be the only way

Do you know which EU countries allow unmarried couples to reunite? I am having real trouble finding a definitive list... Denmark seems to be a possibility but it was mentioned above that this may have changed... Netherlands seems to allow it too, but I believe foreigners cannot marry in the Netherlands.

ALKB wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:00 pm

Ukandfilipino wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:38 pm

Thank you for this, I was not aware that this applied only to non EU nationals... In that case this might be a good option. In the immediate as you pointed out there is still the problem of being an unmarried couple

I'm not sure if it would be a waste of time applying as fiancée and explain the predicament, demonstrate the wedding bookings etc that got cancelled... Or if it is simply a box they have to tick to which they will put "not married, no entry."

It seems silly to move to an EU country that would allow unmarried partners, and then move on from there... But unless Spanish immigration would take pity it might be the only way

Do you know which EU countries allow unmarried couples to reunite? I am having real trouble finding a definitive list... Denmark seems to be a possibility but it was mentioned above that this may have changed... Netherlands seems to allow it too, but I believe foreigners cannot marry in the Netherlands.

I think you are mixing up too many things.

There is being able to get married easily to a non-EEA partner as a non-resident (in Denmark for example, used to be very easy, now a bit more involved but still a lot easier and cheaper than many other options - your fiancée would need a Schengen visa for this).

And there is moving to an EU country and then getting your fiancée over as an unmarried partner, for which you would need to be resident in that country.

So, either: move to Spain, get TIE, marry in Denmark (for example) as a non-resident, directly go to Spain after wedding and apply for her TIE. Subject to her being able to get a Schengen visa, out of the Philippines, get married and arrive in Spain within the next five months.

Or, move to a country that recognizes unmarried partners for immigration purposes (that's those countries who allow their own citizens to bring in unmarried, durable non EEA partners), marry there and then move to Spain BUT all that before 31st December 2020 because if you want to move to Spain after 1st January 2021, you will be a third country national and domestic Spanish immigration law will apply to you. You might well get stuck long term in whatever country you managed to move to to bring an unmarried partner.

Apart from the time frame problem with option 2, there is another problem. The relationship you describe does not fit the definition of durable partner of any EU country I know - I'd be very happy if somebody could point one out, though!

France asks for a minimum of five years cohabitation, for example, at least last time I checked.

THO wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:26 pm

Hi,

I feel for you both, the separation is hard. I suppose because the borders are locked down in PH you can't go live with her for 2 years and get all the evidence so you can bring her to the UK as a long term partner?

And then see if you can move to Spain from here. My guess is Spain will not want to loose the tourist business from the UK and there a huge number of expats there of course, who also are a large part of the Spanish economy, so my guess would be the route there would still be possible.

Others on here will perhaps give better ideas.

One word of caution, and I hate to say it, but if you marry in PH, then it is almost impossible to get a divorce there, or incredibly time consuming and expensive. So, if you do move there, wait until you are in EU before marrying. Not saying you are doomed to fail, but if it ever did go wrong, God forbid.

You're young so still got lots of time to be together, good luck.

THO