De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

susanwj · Post by **susanwj** » Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:28 pm

Hello,

I am trying to find out if it is possible to be granted a de facto partner visa if I meet all of the requirements *except* having lived together for a full two years before the application goes in. We have only lived together for a year but we will have been together for 3.5 years when it comes time to apply. I am currently in Ireland on another permission which will expire at the end of this year, so I am trying to find out if this route would be possible. Any advice or insight would be much appreciated!

links · Post by **meself2** » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:05 pm

2 years of living together is highlighted everywhere as a necessary requirement, eg https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... ionals.pdf

. It will be
necessary for the couple to provide dated documentary evidence of cohabitation for
at least two years. i.e. the couple must be able to show that they have been living
together for at least two years immediately prior to the date of application
[...]
If a couple claim they have maintained their relationship during the two year period
by merely visiting each other as often as they can, this will not be sufficient to
demonstrate a committed De Facto relationship.

Judging by your flag, you're Canadian - have you considered going via Working Holiday visa when your current one ends to get another year and then go as de facto?

Also when waiting for De Facto decision, you won't be able to work (unless your current IRP, valid for a different reason, allows you to do so).

handoubleu · Post by **handoubleu** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:57 am

meself2 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:05 pm

Also when waiting for De Facto decision, you won't be able to work (unless your current IRP, valid for a different reason, allows you to do so).

I was just wondering if you had any idea the odds of being granted a Temporary Stamp 3 during the waiting period. I saw on the Explanatory Leaflet that it is possible to get a Stamp 3 while waiting for a decision, but uncertain how likely this could be. Also, if there was ever a situation in which they grant a Temporary Stamp 1/extension of current stamp?

links · Post by **meself2** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:14 am

handoubleu wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:57 am

meself2 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:05 pm

Also when waiting for De Facto decision, you won't be able to work (unless your current IRP, valid for a different reason, allows you to do so).
I was just wondering if you had any idea the odds of being granted a Temporary Stamp 3 during the waiting period. I saw on the Explanatory Leaflet that it is possible to get a Stamp 3 while waiting for a decision, but uncertain how likely this could be. Also, if there was ever a situation in which they grant a Temporary Stamp 1/extension of current stamp?

Stamp 3 shouldn't be very hard to get, most likely the similar way with Treaty Rights; if they take too long to make a decision and your permission is about to run out, you reach out to ISD and they provide you with a letter allowing you to get Stamp 3 for 6 months. Rinse and repeat until you got a decision.

Haven't heard of any cases when Stamp 1 was given and don't think there are any. No extension of the current stamp via de facto either - current stamp has its own rules, so if you want to extend it, you'd go with adhering whatever you were need to do when you got it. It's totally okay to extend your current stamp independently while waiting for de facto, but if you have only de facto to rely on, Stamp 3 it is.

susanwj · Post by **susanwj** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:07 pm

meself2 wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:05 pm
2 years of living together is highlighted everywhere as a necessary requirement, eg https://www.irishimmigration.ie/wp-cont ... ionals.pdf
. It will be
necessary for the couple to provide dated documentary evidence of cohabitation for
at least two years. i.e. the couple must be able to show that they have been living
together for at least two years immediately prior to the date of application
[...]
If a couple claim they have maintained their relationship during the two year period
by merely visiting each other as often as they can, this will not be sufficient to
demonstrate a committed De Facto relationship.
Judging by your flag, you're Canadian - have you considered going via Working Holiday visa when your current one ends to get another year and then go as de facto?

Also when waiting for De Facto decision, you won't be able to work (unless your current IRP, valid for a different reason, allows you to do so).

Thanks for your response and your suggestion - I was hoping there might be an exception due to the length of the relationship / other evidence of a legitimate relationship.

I am actually on a working holiday visa right now, so after this expires I think the only option would then be a spouse visa. The de facto partner visa seems more straight forward than the spouse visa, so I was hoping it was possible to take this route. My current employment (in a library) falls under the "non-sponsorable" jobs list and it's unlikely that I will be able to receive a title change within the organisation, so I don't think I can go through the work sponsor route either, unfortunately.

Thanks again.

links · Post by **meself2** » Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:53 pm

susanwj wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:07 pm
My current employment (in a library) falls under the "non-sponsorable" jobs list and it's unlikely that I will be able to receive a title change within the organisation, so I don't think I can go through the work sponsor route either, unfortunately.

Is it library clerk/assistant (ineligible) or a librarian (seems to be OK for GEP)?
You can give the classificator a try to verify - https://onsdigital.github.io/dp-classif ... _tool.html

Maybe even talk with HR if they can tailor your title, if you're doing librarian work; see post2082350.html#p2082350 as a very distant example.

Theoretically you can also study for a year (do a Master's/conversion course), spend this year living together so you're adhering to de facto policies, and get 1G for a year afterwards so you can work a bit while it's processing, but it's a whole other process.

susanwj · Post by **susanwj** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am

meself2 wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 09, 2023 5:53 pm

susanwj wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:07 pm
My current employment (in a library) falls under the "non-sponsorable" jobs list and it's unlikely that I will be able to receive a title change within the organisation, so I don't think I can go through the work sponsor route either, unfortunately.

Is it library clerk/assistant (ineligible) or a librarian (seems to be OK for GEP)?
You can give the classificator a try to verify - https://onsdigital.github.io/dp-classif ... _tool.html

Maybe even talk with HR if they can tailor your title, if you're doing librarian work; see post2082350.html#p2082350 as a very distant example.

Theoretically you can also study for a year (do a Master's/conversion course), spend this year living together so you're adhering to de facto policies, and get 1G for a year afterwards so you can work a bit while it's processing, but it's a whole other process.

Thanks so much for your response.

My paygrade/role is classed under "library assistant". However, I am actually working in the archive/special collections, and my role is quite specialised and requires several very specific qualifications. I am a bit nervous to approach management/HR about this, as I think it would be a hassle for them to "officially" change the role title. However, I will perhaps find a gentle way to bring this up with my manager.

I also thought about looking into doing a PhD, just to gain more time here so my partner and I could apply for the de facto visa later down the line - however, I would have to cut my hours in half at work (as I believe you can work 20 hours maximum will enrolled in a program), and I am not sure if I could ask to move from full-time to part-time. There are a lot of hoops to jump through at the institution where I am working.

So as it stands, I think my options are the marriage visa, enrolling in a program, or somehow getting sponsorship from my work. The sponsorship would perhaps be the most straightforward route, as I know the marriage visa requires a lot of paperwork, it's just a matter of getting around the barriers within my workplace.

If I was able to get a title change to apply through my work and secure sponsorship, do you know if it would be possible to switch over to the de facto route as soon as the two-year residency requirement is met?

I will have to speak to an immigration lawyer at some point, but just wanted to make sure there weren't any other (easier) options for me to pursue.

links · Post by **meself2** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:56 am

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
Thanks so much for your response.

My paygrade/role is classed under "library assistant". However, I am actually working in the archive/special collections, and my role is quite specialised and requires several very specific qualifications. I am a bit nervous to approach management/HR about this, as I think it would be a hassle for them to "officially" change the role title. However, I will perhaps find a gentle way to bring this up with my manager.

Play around with classificator, see what fits more for your job (that is not on no sponsorship list) and figure out what you can do. Be aware that for non-CSEP jobs they would have to advertise the position for a month, before they can sponsor you (so theoretically all EU citizens have a chance to take work before nonEU takes over), so you'd have to take this into account and ask HR to do it in good time, if possible. They want to keep you, right? So it's in their interest to do some adjustments.

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
I also thought about looking into doing a PhD, just to gain more time here so my partner and I could apply for the de facto visa later down the line - however, I would have to cut my hours in half at work (as I believe you can work 20 hours maximum will enrolled in a program), and I am not sure if I could ask to move from full-time to part-time. There are a lot of hoops to jump through at the institution where I am working.

If you're skilled in your field and good at research, you can try to go via Hosting Agreement (basically, when university hires you to do research for them) - it's the same as CSEP, so you get Stamp 1 for 2 years (or 1 year x2), apply for Stamp 4 afterwards and Bob's your uncle; wouldn't even need de facto really. But that would cause you to change your job.

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
So as it stands, I think my options are the marriage visa, enrolling in a program, or somehow getting sponsorship from my work. The sponsorship would perhaps be the most straightforward route, as I know the marriage visa requires a lot of paperwork, it's just a matter of getting around the barriers within my workplace.

Marriage visa is similar to de facto, but while you still should show you lived together, strict 2 year requirement is replaced by marriage certificate and you need to notify ISD/attend interview if you're going to be married in Ireland (since you're a foreign national).

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
If I was able to get a title change to apply through my work and secure sponsorship, do you know if it would be possible to switch over to the de facto route as soon as the two-year residency requirement is met?

Not quite.

You can apply after two years, but processing will take time (and, most likely, a lot of time - people mentioned their waiting times could be over a year), so take this in mind and have permission at hand when applying and while processing. Depending on your partner's nationality, Ireland either have to (if EU) or may (nonEU/Irish/UK) give you a temporary permission, but that'll be Stamp 3 - no work.

What's your de facto partner's nationality?

susanwj · Post by **susanwj** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:23 am

meself2 wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:56 am

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
Thanks so much for your response.

My paygrade/role is classed under "library assistant". However, I am actually working in the archive/special collections, and my role is quite specialised and requires several very specific qualifications. I am a bit nervous to approach management/HR about this, as I think it would be a hassle for them to "officially" change the role title. However, I will perhaps find a gentle way to bring this up with my manager.
Play around with classificator, see what fits more for your job (that is not on no sponsorship list) and figure out what you can do. Be aware that for non-CSEP jobs they would have to advertise the position for a month, before they can sponsor you (so theoretically all EU citizens have a chance to take work before nonEU takes over), so you'd have to take this into account and ask HR to do it in good time, if possible. They want to keep you, right? So it's in their interest to do some adjustments.

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
I also thought about looking into doing a PhD, just to gain more time here so my partner and I could apply for the de facto visa later down the line - however, I would have to cut my hours in half at work (as I believe you can work 20 hours maximum will enrolled in a program), and I am not sure if I could ask to move from full-time to part-time. There are a lot of hoops to jump through at the institution where I am working.
If you're skilled in your field and good at research, you can try to go via Hosting Agreement (basically, when university hires you to do research for them) - it's the same as CSEP, so you get Stamp 1 for 2 years (or 1 year x2), apply for Stamp 4 afterwards and Bob's your uncle; wouldn't even need de facto really. But that would cause you to change your job.

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
So as it stands, I think my options are the marriage visa, enrolling in a program, or somehow getting sponsorship from my work. The sponsorship would perhaps be the most straightforward route, as I know the marriage visa requires a lot of paperwork, it's just a matter of getting around the barriers within my workplace.
Marriage visa is similar to de facto, but while you still should show you lived together, strict 2 year requirement is replaced by marriage certificate and you need to notify ISD/attend interview if you're going to be married in Ireland (since you're a foreign national).

susanwj wrote: ↑
Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:34 am
If I was able to get a title change to apply through my work and secure sponsorship, do you know if it would be possible to switch over to the de facto route as soon as the two-year residency requirement is met?
Not quite.

You can apply after two years, but processing will take time (and, most likely, a lot of time - people mentioned their waiting times could be over a year), so take this in mind and have permission at hand when applying and while processing. Depending on your partner's nationality, Ireland either have to (if EU) or may (nonEU/Irish/UK) give you a temporary permission, but that'll be Stamp 3 - no work.

What's your de facto partner's nationality?

This is all very helpful information! I will have a look at the ONS link you sent along and will see what I can come up with. My employer (fortunately) wants to keep me, so hopefully they would be open to sponsorship and a title change. Stupid question, but would the employer be obligated to hold interviews as well, or does the post just need to be advertised?

I also did not know about the potential for a hosting agreement through an educational institution - I guess this is similar to a post-doc researcher scenario? I will have a look into this as well.

Do you know if the processing times for the spouse visa are similar to the de facto route? For example, if we get the visa to be married here, and then put in the application for an official spouse visa, would that take up to a year to process as well? Would there also be a period of time where I might not be able to work while it is processing? It is good to have an idea of the timelines for both this and the de facto visa.

And, my partner is Irish.

Many thanks!

Post by **littlerr** » Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:43 pm

There is no marriage visa. If you have a valid permission to live here, you just need to attend an interview to get married and get your certificate.

Once you are married, you can switch your permission to Stamp 4 right away. There is no waiting period. The time required to process the application is same as any other type of renewal applications, which is currently at around 2 months in Dublin using the online renewal platform. In other places it can be as short as a week or two.

cfla22 · Post by **cfla22** » Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:59 am

susanwj wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:28 pm
Hello,

I am trying to find out if it is possible to be granted a de facto partner visa if I meet all of the requirements *except* having lived together for a full two years before the application goes in. We have only lived together for a year but we will have been together for 3.5 years when it comes time to apply. I am currently in Ireland on another permission which will expire at the end of this year, so I am trying to find out if this route would be possible. Any advice or insight would be much appreciated!

My partner and I are in the same position and are considering moving to elsewhere in Europe with shorter durations required for de facto permission. Best of luck.

susanwj · Post by **susanwj** » Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:43 am

cfla22 wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:59 am

My partner and I are in the same position and are considering moving to elsewhere in Europe with shorter durations required for de facto permission. Best of luck.
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that you're stuck in the same position. I hope you can find a solution that works for you. Moving somewhere else wasn't something that I had considered, but I will look into this.

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De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

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Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years

Re: De facto partner - Living together for less than 2 years