Irish Citizenship

Hi

I am considering working in Ireland. I read somewhere that British Citizens can get permanent residency straight way and then can become Irish Citzens after 1 year of residency? Not sure how true it is.

I'm not sure where you got this information but I can assure you that it is not the case. However, all time spent in Ireland by British citizens are reckonable for the purpose of naturalisation and they become eligible after 5 years, like everyone else.

joesoap101 wrote:I'm not sure where you got this information but I can assure you that it is not the case. However, all time spent in Ireland by British citizens are reckonable for the purpose of naturalisation and they become eligible after 5 years, like everyone else.

Or 3 years, if married to an Irish citizen.

joesoap101 wrote:I'm not sure where you got this information but I can assure you that it is not the case. However, all time spent in Ireland by British citizens are reckonable for the purpose of naturalisation and they become eligible after 5 years, like everyone else.

Although there is little practical point (besides, perhaps, for sentimental reasons) for a British citizen to become an Irish citizen. British citizens have all the same rights and privileges as Irish citizens living in Ireland. Certainly not worth the stress and hassle of applying for Irish naturalisation, judging from the experiences of others on this board.

Dawie wrote: Although there is little practical point (besides, perhaps, for sentimental reasons) for a British citizen to become an Irish citizen. British citizens have all the same rights and privileges as Irish citizens living in Ireland. Certainly not worth the stress and hassle of applying for Irish naturalisation, judging from the experiences of others on this board.

Except that (perversely perhaps) if there is less riding on the application the stress and hassle is probably lessened in the mind of the applicant, in that it won't seem so essential to achieve the desired result or to achieve it expeditiously.

Dawie wrote: Although there is little practical point (besides, perhaps, for sentimental reasons) for a British citizen to become an Irish citizen. British citizens have all the same rights and privileges as Irish citizens living in Ireland. Certainly not worth the stress and hassle of applying for Irish naturalisation, judging from the experiences of others on this board.

There may be some practical advantage in doing so if one is a British citizen "by descent".

Many people in Britain and the US who have Irish associations apply for Irish passports because of the perceived advantages of carrying a passport issued by a neutral country, even though it is selectively neutral.

If you are married to an Irish citizen and you live in Ireland (including the north) you can apply after 3 years but at the current processing time the whole process is likely to take approximately 5 years. Also there is no entitlement and you can be refused even if you meet all the requirements including being married to an Irish citizen. It used to be that you could sign a declaration and obtain citizenship by right but this was removed.

British citizens don’t have the exact same rights as Irish citizens in that they are not entitled to vote in referenda.

Dawie wrote:

joesoap101 wrote:I'm not sure where you got this information but I can assure you that it is not the case. However, all time spent in Ireland by British citizens are reckonable for the purpose of naturalisation and they become eligible after 5 years, like everyone else.

Although there is little practical point (besides, perhaps, for sentimental reasons) for a British citizen to become an Irish citizen. British citizens have all the same rights and privileges as Irish citizens living in Ireland. Certainly not worth the stress and hassle of applying for Irish naturalisation, judging from the experiences of others on this board.

Don't forget it's also a useful way of 'exercising treaty rights' without actually relocating to another state.

I'm still umming and ahhing about whether to pursuing it through my Irish parentage, if ur spouse/partner isn't bothered about citizenship the EEA Family Permit looks a lot less stressful.....

Wanderer if one of your parents were born in Ireland you are already an Irish citizen. Simply fill out the appropriate application form (APS2) if you wish to obtain an Irish passport.

joesoap101 wrote:Wanderer if one of your parents were born in Ireland you are already an Irish citizen. Simply fill out the appropriate application form (APS2) if you wish to obtain an Irish passport.

Grandparents unfortunately!

Thing is, our family tree is notoriously dodgy, I got all my dads papers, birth, marriage and death, but my grandad's appear to have never existed!

All is not lost tho, the family bible reveals a marriage in Ireland, not England as we thought and also a surname name spelling reform, Carney to Kearney....

Good fun tho!

I assumed when you said parentage that one of your parents would have been born in Ireland. You will then have to go through the foreing births registration process which is a bit more work but not overly difficult. Many people travel to Ireland to obtain all the documents, it has to be somewhere, finding it may not be that easy. Keep in mind FBR is also possible if your grandparents where from the north of Ireland.

joesoap101 wrote: Also there is no entitlement and you can be refused even if you meet all the requirements including being married to an Irish citizen.

The courts in most common law jurisdictions have increasingly started to frown on a capricious exercise of "discretion" under laws such as those pertaining to naturalisation. There is a trend towards insisting on consistent policies that underly the exercise of administrative discretion.

Assuming that common law principles may still be applied in the Republic of Ireland courts, it might be open for a person denied naturalisation on a "discretionary" basis (and without apparent good cause) to apply for judicial review of the decision.

Unfortunately not true in Ireland. The minister, by law, has absolute discrection so if he decides no - well thats the end of it. He is not required to give any reason, by law. Although he mostly does give reasons but he is not obliged to do so. In fact, such decisions has been challenged but they never succeed.

joesoap101 wrote:Unfortunately not true in Ireland. The minister, by law, has absolute discrection so if he decides no - well thats the end of it. He is not required to give any reason, by law. Although he mostly does give reasons but he is not obliged to do so. In fact, such decisions has been challenged but they never succeed.

The Home Secretary in the United Kingdom also has the same kind of "discretion" but cannot use it unreasonably. Maybe anyone challenging that kind of decision hasn't had a good enough lawyer - for example, perhaps seek an injunction to demand disclosure of the relevant policy manuals and case files and cite relevant precedents from elsewhere.

Or maybe it's simply the case that jurisdictions like the United Kingdom and Australia have a higher standard of public administration than prevails in the Republic of Ireland.

.

No offense folks, but this topic is going to Ireland (forum).

The Admin

Wanderer: if you wish to pursue your family tree, you should check with the General Registry Office.

http://www.groireland.ie/research.htm

The following records are deposited in the General Register Office:-

1. Registers of all Births registered in the whole of Ireland from 1st January, 1864, to 31 December, 1921, and in Ireland (excluding the six north-eastern counties of Derry, Antrim, Down, Armagh, Fermanagh and Tyrone know as Northern Ireland) from that date.
4. Registers of all Marriages registered in the whole of Ireland from 1st January, 1864 , to 31st December, 1921 , and in Ireland (excluding Northern Ireland ) from that date.

You can go in physically and check through the records yourself. Or you could request a copy of your grandfathers birth certificate. see http://www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm . This costs €10 and the application form is at http://www.groireland.ie/docs/Applicati ... evised.pdf

Well I personally believe that Ireland is less democratic than the UK and Australia in many respects. Public Administration in Ireland is comparable to that found in 3rd world countries. In Ireland ministerial discrection is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act so any decision on refusal could be prevented from being made public on these grounds. How convenient for the government! They changed the FOI laws to restrict access to information!

To be honest I really dont think it's helpful to go off in a tangent about which immigration system is better, or whether Ireland is a 1st or 4th world country regarding how it administers its laws.

The original question was about a British person gaining Irish citizenship and it progressed on to other Irish descendants gaining Irish citizenship. Lets stick to the questions?

I think it is entirely helpful for anyone on this forum to realise that dealing with the Irish authorities will be the most unpleasant experience they can imagine.