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Where and when did she marry? Did she marry in Ireland?. Try the parish church for records.fanadfilms wrote:I have applied for Irish citizenship via descent from my maternal grandmother. I went through an agency that assists people with filing the proper forms.
The Foreign Births Ministry (FBM) says that Marriage Certificates are required, especially in the case of a maternal link, since a change of name might occur.
I not able to find the two marriage certificates for my maternal grandmother. However, her birth certificate and death certificates show clearly that the person with a different last name is the same person listed on the birth certificate. I have all the other documents to prove that I am me and my Irish-born grandmother is my grandmother.
However, the FBM continues to stonewall me. No matter how many times I comply (getting a certified document showing that I searched for the marriage certificates in the state in which she lived), they keep asking for more info.
What’s stupid is, as stated, I HAVE proof she is Irish-Born and I AM her grandson.
Also, when I first filed in April of 2010, they said it would take about 8-12 months to process once they accepted the documentation. Now, six months later, after receiving several correspondences from the FBM, they’re indicating 12-16 months as the processing time.
What is with these people? I have read the Irish law regarding citizenship via descent and nothing says you have to provide certain documents to establish proof, but not exactly which documents. I have submitted documents establishing beyond doubt that I am descendent from and Irish-born grandparent, yet they keep stonewalling me.
Does anyone have any info to get these people to provide the service they should provide?
fanadfilms wrote:I have my birth certificate. I have my mother's birth certificate. I have my mother's and father's marriage certificate. I have my driver's license photocopied I have my passport photo copied. I have my bank statements photocopied. I have my mother's passport and drivers license photo copied. I have my grandmother's birth certificate and death certificate.
My grandmother was married twice. Both marriages took place in the united states. I cannot find the marriage certificates. However I did find the beginning of a divorce proceedings. However the worse was not finalized. So I cannot get an official copy of a divorce .
But the documents I provided do you show that I am my grandmother's grandson. Anyone with half a brain can see that. I can only assume that the people in the foreign brooks ministry don't have half a brain.
Absolute sympathy with you there dude but the problem is its bureaucratic system which is hungary for paperwork. What i suggest and not 100% certain someone else might wanna comment on this....but if you can get your hands on baptismal cert from church in ireland where they got christined either of your great/grandparents it would help big time.fanadfilms wrote:I have my birth certificate. I have my mother's birth certificate. I have my mother's and father's marriage certificate. I have my driver's license photocopied I have my passport photo copied. I have my bank statements photocopied. I have my mother's passport and drivers license photo copied. I have my grandmother's birth certificate and death certificate.
My grandmother was married twice. Both marriages took place in the united states. I cannot find the marriage certificates. However I did find the beginning of a divorce proceedings. However the worse was not finalized. So I cannot get an official copy of a divorce .
But the documents I provided do you show that I am my grandmother's grandson. Anyone with half a brain can see that. I can only assume that the people in the foreign brooks ministry don't have half a brain.
Do not get me wrong Patty, I have nothing but sympathy as well. But what other way can there be to ensure that those who do claim are genuinely Irish. Granted, I fully accept, birth and death certificate should be enough, but those, documents, objectively, themselves do not provide clear links to show that they are related to the posterfatty patty wrote:Absolute sympathy with you there dude but the problem is its bureaucratic system which is hungary for paperwork. What i suggest and not 100% certain someone else might wanna comment on this....but if you can get your hands on baptismal cert from church in ireland where they got christined either of your great/grandparents it would help big time.fanadfilms wrote:I have my birth certificate. I have my mother's birth certificate. I have my mother's and father's marriage certificate. I have my driver's license photocopied I have my passport photo copied. I have my bank statements photocopied. I have my mother's passport and drivers license photo copied. I have my grandmother's birth certificate and death certificate.
My grandmother was married twice. Both marriages took place in the united states. I cannot find the marriage certificates. However I did find the beginning of a divorce proceedings. However the worse was not finalized. So I cannot get an official copy of a divorce .
But the documents I provided do you show that I am my grandmother's grandson. Anyone with half a brain can see that. I can only assume that the people in the foreign brooks ministry don't have half a brain.
Clearly the evidence is not there, not in full. your the applicant, it is for you to prove it. if the department asks for all of these documents from everyone, then you are not a special case. For such a simple request you seem to protest too muchfanadfilms wrote:Since the evidence IS there. I think it's them being typically Irish. And with the economy in Ireland they way it is, they might think we intend on availing ourselves of the welfare state, rather than bringing our own industry to Ireland.
Hang on, I was asking you a number of questions and not trying to make a point nor trying to be condescending. I do not know what American death certs look like. I, thankfully have not seen too many death certs. That was the point of asking those particulars as it would solve your problems when you go and obtain the marriage cert. so it is obvious that i have not overlooked any relevant information as you say the death cert contains the suggested info neededfanadfilms wrote:"The death cert, does it say where someone was born?. Does it even mention a woman's maiden name? Does your parent's certs say where your grandmother is from? What will producing your parents driving licence achieve? Why didn't your own parents not avail of the rights? What objective proof is there that the person on her birth cert is the same person on the death cert? State Documents must contain no missing links. That is why you are where you are "
If you get a photocopy of the original, it has a wealth of information that you have obviously overlooked. On my grandmother's Death Cert, it has her parent's names, the place where they lived in Ireland (which is the same as on my grandmother's birth cert), and my grandmother's date of birth. Pretty good evidence.
Do not speak to me in such a condescending manner.
Oh crap, that far down the timeline. I assume you contacted the church/place of marriage/city hall. thats no guarantee as the papers were not destroyed either by authorities (at least its not Berlin or other European countries via ww2) Is any of your relations alive and possess their memory. maybe they have letters/post cards, photos etc ?fanadfilms wrote:For writing projects and other matters.
All my documents are certified copies. Vis-Ã -vis the death certificate, it is a certified photocopy of the original, which contains much more information. My grandmother's name is that which she had at her death, however, her parent's names and places of birth are on there, as is my grandmother's place of birth, and her birth date. They corroborate the information on the Irish Birth Cert.
All the documents I have show clearly that this is my grandmother and that she was born in Ireland. My representative actually called the consulate before we submitted the application to make sure that the documents, sans the marriage certs., would be sufficient to establish descent. However, after we submitted the application, they started throwing up roadblocks; the marriage certs.
Both marriages took place here in the US. However, no matter where we look, we cannot find them. I did find evidence of an initiation of a divorce for the first marriage; but the divorce was never finalized in this state. There is no evidence of a marriage in this state. That leaves forty-nine others in which to look. It was during the Great Depression and my maternal grandfather was unemployed. I do not think they would have traveled far to get married. I’m also assuming the first marriage was a shotgun one.
fanadfilms wrote:Who does this all the time, and even they're pulling their hair out. The consulate was never like this before. We have gotten a certified document saying there are no marriage certs in NJ, now they want a church document.
Problem is, We don't know what church, if any, they would have been married in. And records are kept at the church level, not the diocesan level.
It really ticks me off, because as soon as I get this lined up, I can really work on the financing for my rubbish. I won't shoot it in Ireland if I'm not an Irish citizen at the time. Therefore, Ireland will lose millions of dollars in investment capital coming INTO the country. So foolish.
Ah best of luck with it.fanadfilms wrote:I have more hair than he does, and lots less money. I've been working on developing this project for years. I lived in Ireland for a bit back in the 80's. I was there as a baby too.
The story is based on an old family legend. I wrote it when I was there in the 80's as a short story, and a script in the 90's. Every person in Ireland who's read it loves it.
If you wish to read it, you're free to do so. Send an email address and I'll forward a copy.