NI number used to work illegally

Several years ago before we met, my wife came to the UK on a visitor visa. She then started working (illegally) using a National Insurance number which was given to her by someone at the time, and NI contributions were deducted from her salary for several years, with more than one employer so they weren't simply conning her.

It seems maybe the NI number she was using wasn't 'legitimate' as I believe non-UK nationals have to apply for their own NI number? And when we contacted HMRC a while ago to change the home address (she wasn't working at the time) they said there was a problem with the NI number and we had to contact DWP.

My wife now has her spouse visa and permission to work in the UK. I understand the normal process is that she would apply for a NI number so she can start work. But she has the NI number from before that she used when working illegally, and we don't want her NI contributions to be 'lost' when she's paid in so much over the previous years - and nothing was claimed in benefits I will add!

Does anyone know how she might stand legally from a financial / NI contributions standpoint? I am happy to pay for some legal advice but I want someone who has knowledge of this specific situation.

when applying for her spouse visa did your wife disclose that she has been staying illegally in the UK for some time?

I'd be more worried about the ramifications of working illegally and fraudulently, it could have very serious consequences.

I don't think It's fair to say she was working fraudulently. She used her own identity, had CRB checks done all with correct details. Her employers knew her visa status.

Don't worry, UKBA know everything, date she arrived, the NI number she was using, payslips, etc

So if anyone has any advice about the financial legal side I'd be interested.

Using someone else's NINO is identify theft and an act of fraud, make no mistake about it.

But before we go on, could you answer Manci's question?

AFAIK she has not used someone else's NI number.

I have already answered the question, yes she told the UKBA everything.

Please can you only respond if you can advise regarding the financial/civil law side of things. Maybe I am on the wrong discussion board.

EDIT made to my original response after re-reading this....

I believe the reason for confusion is due to the comment underlined below. If it's a misunderstanding I believe you may be able to assist in providing clarity...

You have not really stated what issue exists with your wife's current NI number, either way this would need to addressed by DWP. You are correct, that non-UK nationals have to apply for their own NI number, but that is only done once.

I did the same when I first came to study in the UK, worked for one year as part of my degree. Then I left the UK after graduation and returned several years later to work/settle here. I used the same NI number I initially had when I returned. This is similar to the SSN number you have in the USA, it's unique to an individual, so I do not believe your wife would be able to request a second NI number, as she already has one.

You can maybe comment further on whether what I've understood of your wife's situation is correct.

jon78 wrote:She then started working (illegally) using a National Insurance number which was given to her by someone at the time, and NI contributions were deducted from her salary for several years...

jon78 wrote:AFAIK she has not used someone else's NI number..

jon78 wrote:But she has the NI number from before that she used when working illegally, and we don't want her NI contributions to be 'lost' when she's paid in so much over the previous years - and nothing was claimed in benefits I will add!

The key issue she will have is that whatever earnings and NI contributions she would have made over that time period, would have been obtained illegally, as Visitors do not have the right to work (& thereby are unable to claim any form of benefit anyway) in he UK. I'd personally seek legal assistance as I doubt resolving this would be as simple as applying for a new NI number.

I don't know exactly what issue exists with her NI number, but before I get the DWP to start digging around I'd rather know the legal score.

"whatever earnings and NI contributions she would have made over that time period, would have been obtained illegally" - that may in some sense be true but it doesn't necessarily mean she's not entitled to credit for the NI contributions she's made.

I want to get legal advice but I want a lawyer who's dealt with something similar before.

Do you think it's fair to profit from criminal activity?

In any case this is not a can of worms you want or need to open, a decent lawyer would eat up thousands..

jon78 wrote: Her employers knew her visa status.

If her employers knew her visa status, i.e. that she had no permission to stay and work in the UK, they may well have civil penalties imposed on them retrospectively under the prevention of illegal working regulations:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... -penalties

Wanderer wrote:In any case this is not a can of worms you want or need to open, a decent lawyer would eat up thousands..

If the OP's wife does now intend to work in the UK, then I believe the issue around her NI number would have to be addressed in some way or another, with legal assistance or otherwise. On your point about trying to reclaim former NI contributions, I'd tend to agree, that its not a road I'd want to go down, if it were me.

"if her employers knew.... they may well have civil penalties imposed" - sure, not a problem to us.

"a decent lawyer would eat up thousands.." - maybe, but the value of her NI contributions over the years is well over £10k so I believe its worth looking into.

So guys, you can take it that I am veering towards opening this can of worms, going down that road etc. (if she'd used deception, knowingly given false info etc I wouldn't be keen. As I said, we told the UKBA everything already).

Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure there would be no way to reclaim monies paid to HMRC, so that leaves two specific issues:

1) When she starts a new job, whether to just use the old NI number and 'see what happens', or try to get it all ironed out in advance, which could take some time

2) Establish what her officially recorded NI record is, as referred to here https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record. We may fill in this form and see what happens, but based on past experience, HMRC will not give info, but refer us to DWP.

If you're a (reasonably priced) lawyer with knowledge of this area, please let me know (I can't read private messages BTW).

jon78 wrote: ...we told the UKBA everything already.

how and what?

UKBA know the date she originally arrived in the UK. As part of the visa application we gave them P60's for every year she had been in the UK. She wrote in the "further information" section that she acknowledged she had stayed and worked illegally in the UK. On the form where it asks for NI number we gave the one she had been using. We told them she'd been using the NHS, etc. We're not trying to hide anything.

I haven't posted here to get moral judgements and give unhelpful comments about 'profiting from criminal activity' etc. Some people may think what she has done is immoral, that's their view. She paid tax and NI for many years and never claimed any benefits (although it seems that until 2012 the law would actually have allowed her to claim benefits, despite being here illegally). And as her visa states 'no public funds' she presumably can't claim benefits for the time being.

What we're trying to do now is establish the legal position with regard to her NI number and the contributions she's made.

Hi Jon,

I would really love to hear an update regarding your situation - I am in the exact same situation with my husband, only we have not yet submitted our application for leave to remain and don't plan on disclosing the fact my husband has been working illegally here in the UK. We have been warned of serious consequences if they find out he has been working, which is making us reconsider applying at all.
I am especially interested in what the UKBA said after you disclosed your wife's Ni number ect ect.

aa58 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:55 pm

Hi Jon,

I would really love to hear an update regarding your situation - I am in the exact same situation with my husband, only we have not yet submitted our application for leave to remain and don't plan on disclosing the fact my husband has been working illegally here in the UK. We have been warned of serious consequences if they find out he has been working, which is making us reconsider applying at all.
I am especially interested in what the UKBA said after you disclosed your wife's Ni number ect ect.

Kindly post your questions in your own topic in the Family Immigration sub forum further down the main forum page rather than tagging onto a topic that is more than 2 years old.