Entrepreneur Visa Third Party

[akap12]

I am surprised there isn't much information available online on this topic. Hmmm

Hey guys,
I have a few questions about this since I will be switching in about 6 months. It would be great if someone with prior experience to switching from Graduate Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur visa could help me out !

1) Do i need the £50k generated in my business account or my personal account? (at the moment I've saved up about 20k from my own business profits). How long do i need the money for if I put it in my business account and not personal?

2) When i submit a business plan, does it have to be a new one completely or can it be similar to the one I had for my graduate entrepreneur visa?

3) Do you have to attend and interview if your switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur? How was your experience like?

I would be forever grateful if someone could help me with this. Thanks

[marcnath]

I am not someone with previous experience, but the guidance documents do seem to have some clear answers to your questions. Here are some of the relevant sections
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In the points table, the criteria for money available is --> Tier 1 (Graduate Entrepreneur) c) You : 1. are applying for leave to remain, 2. have, or were last granted, leave as a Tier 1 (Graduate Entrepreneur) migrant, and 3. have access to not less than £50,000.
You must also have £50,000 of your own money available to make a fresh investment into business in the UK. Your funds must be held in the UK.
If part of the investment has been made, you can also rely on this, but must have access to the remaining balance of funds.
The investment must have been made in the 12 calendar months before the date of application, or 24 months if you were last granted leave as a Tier 1 (Graduate Entrepreneur). Any investment made more than 12 months (or 24 months if you were last a Tier 1 (Graduate Entrepreneur) migrant) before your application will not be counted.
========
It is not about money in the business, but about the money invested.
The way I see this, you would need to withdraw the money from your business (note: you may have personal tax implications) and then you can show it as money accessible to you for investment.

There does not seem to be any requirements on the business plan. Elsewhere in the guidance, they do remark that they understand that businesses change. I would assume that the Tier 1 application would be independent so there is no need to have the same business plan. You could have learnt from your first business and need to change it

[zimba]

Read the Guidance on application for UK visa as Tier 1 (Entrepreneur)

1) Do i need the £50k generated in my business account or my personal account? (at the moment I've saved up about 20k from my own business profits). How long do i need the money for if I put it in my business account and not personal?

Funds either must be available to you personally or invested in the business as given per guide. You cannot count revenue generated in the business as investment !!

2) When i submit a business plan, does it have to be a new one completely or can it be similar to the one I had for my graduate entrepreneur visa?

Depends on your business goals. You can submit the previous plan

3) Do you have to attend and interview if your switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur? How was your experience like?

Whether you have to be interviewed or not will be determined by the HO and the case worker.

[akap12]

Funds either must be available to you personally or invested in the business as given per guide. You cannot count revenue generated in the business as investment !!

- But the money generated from my business is personally available to me for further investments? Is there a difference if the money is kept on my business or personal account? Is there a number of consecutive days for money to be kept before the application is made (NOT for maintenance but the 50k?)

Depends on your business goals. You can submit the previous plan

Thanks, i'll look into this more. Can your business plan have more than one business idea?

Whether you have to be interviewed or not will be determined by the HO and the case worker.

Aren't all initials applications supposed to have interviews or does switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur have different rules?

[marcnath]

- But the money generated from my business is personally available to me for further investments? Is there a difference if the money is kept on my business or personal account? Is there a number of consecutive days for money to be kept before the application is made (NOT for maintenance but the 50k?)

You may be able to argue that if you are self employed or if you are a sole proprietor. But, if your business is a limited company, for example, the money generated belongs to the company, not to you.
So, yes, it does make a difference whether the money is in the business account or personal account.
However, you can rely on money from a third party. The relevant section says
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You must also have £50,000 of your own money available to make a fresh investment into business in the UK. Your funds must be held in the UK.
71. You can include money made available by other people (known as ‘a third party or parties’) but where applicable, you must also provide a declaration that the money is available to you or the business that you are running, from each contributor of funds, together with confirmation that the declarations are valid. If you are relying on money held by your husband, wife or partner, they will be regarded as a third party.
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While your existing business can be a third party and you could use it to show the funds availability, there is a restriction on using that funds to show investment when it you have to claim points for extension.
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Additional content for a business acting as a third party
 If the money is coming from another business in which you are also self-employed or a director of, confirmation of your status within that business and that you are the sole controller of that business’s finances. If you are not the sole controller of that business’s finances, the letter must be signed by another authorised official of the business. Please note: for the purposes of your Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) application, the business acting as a third party cannot be the same business for which you wish to score points for investment.
=====
Your best bet would be take the money to your personal account and use it from there

[zimba]

- But the money generated from my business is personally available to me for further investments? Is there a difference if the money is kept on my business or personal account? Is there a number of consecutive days for money to be kept before the application is made (NOT for maintenance but the 50k?)

Revenue is NOT investment. If you saved money from your business after taxes, you can invest that. Money kept in a business bank account is NOT your INVESTMENT. That belongs to the company and taxes must be paid from it to the government. It is not your money.
Also when claiming investment, you must show all the required 50K funds are invested UNDER YOUR NAME. I REPEAT AGAIN, read the guide

Aren't all initials applications supposed to have interviews or does switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur have different rules?

There is no rule that says everyone will be interviewed.

[akap12]

Revenue is NOT investment. If you saved money from your business after taxes, you can invest that. Money kept in a business bank account is NOT your INVESTMENT. That belongs to the company and taxes must be paid from it to the government. It is not your money.
Also when claiming investment, you must show all the required 50K funds are invested UNDER YOUR NAME. I REPEAT AGAIN, read the guide /

Hi there, I am not applying as it being my investment. I am applying as "i have an access to these funds". Also, Ive paid my taxes and I am indeed a sole trader so the bank statement has my name too.

There is no rule that says everyone will be interviewed.

Thanks ! hopefully i wont

[akap12]

Hi everyone,
I am currently a graduate entrepreneur looking to switch to my Entrepreneur Visa. I just had a quick question: I've spent around 10k on trade shows, packaging, posting parcels, warehouse/storage and so on for my business as a sole trader (Online Business).
Does all of this get deducted in terms of the 50k in investments or does day to day business costs not count towards investment?

Do i need to show the full 50k or 40k? I can get a letter from my accountant to show my business costs as reflected on my bank statements as well as invoices.

Thanks !

[akap12]

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to ask:
Do i need a "third party funding" declaration for money kept more than 90 days before the application?
(My sibling just transferred me some money and i am applying after 3.5 months/switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur)

Thanks in advance !

[live4pride]

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to ask:
Do i need a "third party funding" declaration for money kept more than 90 days before the application?
(My sibling just transferred me some money and i am applying after 3.5 months/switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur)

Thanks in advance !

Not too sure about graduate entrepreneur switch applications.. last time I went through guidance couple of weeks ago, it appears that they need money to be kept for atleast 90 days when you keep it in your own.. third party usually doesn't have this condition.. from what I read above it doesn't look anything is going to affect you if you're having all money in your account..

[marcnath]

Hi everyone,
I am currently a graduate entrepreneur looking to switch to my Entrepreneur Visa. I just had a quick question: I've spent around 10k on trade shows, packaging, posting parcels, warehouse/storage and so on for my business as a sole trader (Online Business).
Does all of this get deducted in terms of the 50k in investments or does day to day business costs not count towards investment?

Do i need to show the full 50k or 40k? I can get a letter from my accountant to show my business costs as reflected on my bank statements as well as invoices.

Thanks !

Your marketing spend and any other business costs can be counted against your investment. Obviously, you need to show it in the accounts as such. So your accounts will show full 50K as investment, of which 10K has already been used, leaving 40K in the bank account.

Obviously, this must have happened within 24 months of your application date. Money spent before that is not allowed.

[marcnath]

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to ask:
Do i need a "third party funding" declaration for money kept more than 90 days before the application?
(My sibling just transferred me some money and i am applying after 3.5 months/switching from graduate entrepreneur to entrepreneur)

Thanks in advance !

If the money has been in your personal account for more than 90 days, you don't need a third party funding declaration

[akap12]

Hi everyone,
I am currently a graduate entrepreneur looking to switch to my Entrepreneur Visa. I just had a quick question: I've spent around 10k on trade shows, packaging, posting parcels, warehouse/storage and so on for my business as a sole trader (Online Business).
Does all of this get deducted in terms of the 50k in investments or does day to day business costs not count towards investment?

Do i need to show the full 50k or 40k? I can get a letter from my accountant to show my business costs as reflected on my bank statements as well as invoices.

Thanks !

Your marketing spend and any other business costs can be counted against your investment. Obviously, you need to show it in the accounts as such. So your accounts will show full 50K as investment, of which 10K has already been used, leaving 40K in the bank account.




Obviously, this must have happened within 24 months of your application date. Money spent before that is not allowed.

Do I show this through documents/reports from my accountant along with some business bank statements?

[marcnath]

Hi everyone,
I am currently a graduate entrepreneur looking to switch to my Entrepreneur Visa. I just had a quick question: I've spent around 10k on trade shows, packaging, posting parcels, warehouse/storage and so on for my business as a sole trader (Online Business).
Does all of this get deducted in terms of the 50k in investments or does day to day business costs not count towards investment?

Do i need to show the full 50k or 40k? I can get a letter from my accountant to show my business costs as reflected on my bank statements as well as invoices.

Thanks !

Your marketing spend and any other business costs can be counted against your investment. Obviously, you need to show it in the accounts as such. So your accounts will show full 50K as investment, of which 10K has already been used, leaving 40K in the bank account.




Obviously, this must have happened within 24 months of your application date. Money spent before that is not allowed.

Do I show this through documents/reports from my accountant along with some business bank statements?

They will be shown in your accounts. How it is shown depends on whether you are treating this as capital investment or director's loan. Talk to your accountant for advice on that. Either way is acceptable for immigration purposes.

[akap12]

Hi mods,
I'm still confused a bit on the money aspect of the Entrepreneur visa (switching).
If you have an existing business does the money you spend count as spending or investing?

Is spending the same as investing ? I know the actual meanings are different but does spending count towards your 50k goal mark?

For example, lets say I made 20k as a sole trader and spent 5k for warehousing, posting parcels, etc. Does the 5k which was deducted as a business cost by my accountant (for tax purposes) count as money being spent to run the business?


Thanks so much.
This forum has been very helpful

[marcnath]

Hi mods,
I'm still confused a bit on the money aspect of the Entrepreneur visa (switching).
If you have an existing business does the money you spend count as spending or investing?

Is spending the same as investing ? I know the actual meanings are different but does spending count towards your 50k goal mark?

For example, lets say I made 20k as a sole trader and spent 5k for warehousing, posting parcels, etc. Does the 5k which was deducted as a business cost by my accountant (for tax purposes) count as money being spent to run the business?


Thanks so much.
This forum has been very helpful

T1E holders are expected to INVEST the required amount (50K in your case) from YOUR OWN money. Obviously the money invested is also expected to be spent for the growth of the business.
So, if you spent 10K of your own money to set up the company, buy some goods, etc, then it can be counted as investment.
In the example you have put up, the 20K is NOT your own money - that money belongs to the business. So, while the 5K is still money spent to run the business, it does not count towards investment.
Note there is nothing that prevents the business paying the 20K to you. At the point, it becomes your money (of course, you have to pay income tax, etc.). Then you invest that money back into the business and it will be counted against your investment.

[akap12]

Hi mods,
I'm still confused a bit on the money aspect of the Entrepreneur visa (switching).
If you have an existing business does the money you spend count as spending or investing?

Is spending the same as investing ? I know the actual meanings are different but does spending count towards your 50k goal mark?

For example, lets say I made 20k as a sole trader and spent 5k for warehousing, posting parcels, etc. Does the 5k which was deducted as a business cost by my accountant (for tax purposes) count as money being spent to run the business?


Thanks so much.
This forum has been very helpful

T1E holders are expected to INVEST the required amount (50K in your case) from YOUR OWN money. Obviously the money invested is also expected to be spent for the growth of the business.
So, if you spent 10K of your own money to set up the company, buy some goods, etc, then it can be counted as investment.
In the example you have put up, the 20K is NOT your own money - that money belongs to the business. So, while the 5K is still money spent to run the business, it does not count towards investment.
Note there is nothing that prevents the business paying the 20K to you. At the point, it becomes your money (of course, you have to pay income tax, etc.). Then you invest that money back into the business and it will be counted against your investment.

Hi marcnath,
Thank you for a quick reply.
Since I am a sole trader doesn't that mean the money belongs to me? Also, the policy guidance states:
‘Invested’ or ‘spent’ excludes spending on:
any spending which is not directly for the purpose of establishing or running your
own business or businesses.

In this case isn't the money I'm spending directly for the purpose of running my business?

[akap12]

Also, Just to be clear I'm switching from graduate Entrepreneur to Entrepreneur

[marcnath]

Hi mods,
I'm still confused a bit on the money aspect of the Entrepreneur visa (switching).
If you have an existing business does the money you spend count as spending or investing?

Is spending the same as investing ? I know the actual meanings are different but does spending count towards your 50k goal mark?

For example, lets say I made 20k as a sole trader and spent 5k for warehousing, posting parcels, etc. Does the 5k which was deducted as a business cost by my accountant (for tax purposes) count as money being spent to run the business?


Thanks so much.
This forum has been very helpful

T1E holders are expected to INVEST the required amount (50K in your case) from YOUR OWN money. Obviously the money invested is also expected to be spent for the growth of the business.
So, if you spent 10K of your own money to set up the company, buy some goods, etc, then it can be counted as investment.
In the example you have put up, the 20K is NOT your own money - that money belongs to the business. So, while the 5K is still money spent to run the business, it does not count towards investment.
Note there is nothing that prevents the business paying the 20K to you. At the point, it becomes your money (of course, you have to pay income tax, etc.). Then you invest that money back into the business and it will be counted against your investment.

Hi marcnath,
Thank you for a quick reply.
Since I am a sole trader doesn't that mean the money belongs to me? Also, the policy guidance states:
‘Invested’ or ‘spent’ excludes spending on:
any spending which is not directly for the purpose of establishing or running your
own business or businesses.

In this case isn't the money I'm spending directly for the purpose of running my business?

The key thing is what is stated in the guidelines "A new investment is required - The money used will only qualify for the award of points if it will be new investment in the United Kingdom".

Money generated within the business is not an "new investment" into the business. You are only reinvesting it.

Even though, in the case of the sole trader, the lines between business and personal finances can be blurred, you will need to separate them and submit business accounts. So, it will be clear whether the money is generated in the business or is a new one.

So, in your example, a revenue of 20K and 5K costs means you have made a taxable profit of 15K. You pay taxes on that and say you are left with 10K. You can transfer that 10K out to another account and then transfer it back in as New Investment. But you cannot count 10K + 5K as your investment, because that 5K did not come from you.

It is very clear to me, but I am not sure if I am getting it across clearly enough.

[akap12]

Got it !
Makes sense now

[marcnath]

Got it !
Makes sense now

Great !

I just realised you have created 3-4 different thread on very similar topics.

Please refrain from doing so. Once you start a thread, stay on it, so that people who are trying to help will have the full background and don't have to repeat themselves.

[akap12]

Hi marcnath,
One last question:

If i have a active business with around 30k in funds and I am predicting to have up-to 45k in my business account (as a sole trader/bank statements have my name) in about 3.5 months which is the time I will be applying for my Entrepreneurs visa, can I show my business bank statements along with my personal?
Im not sure I will have the full 50k in my personal.
Or is it okay to transfer my business money to my personal before tax? (I am allowed to use my business money even before tax right?)

Thanks !

[marcnath]

Hi marcnath,
One last question:

If i have a active business with around 30k in funds and I am predicting to have up-to 45k in my business account (as a sole trader/bank statements have my name) in about 3.5 months which is the time I will be applying for my Entrepreneurs visa, can I show my business bank statements along with my personal?
Im not sure I will have the full 50k in my personal.
Or is it okay to transfer my business money to my personal before tax? (I am allowed to use my business money even before tax right?)

Thanks !

On these issues, I always go back to the intent of this route - which is to bring new money and new jobs into the economy and hopefully spur further growth. The requirements are therefore that you have fresh funds of your own.

The criteria is set up in a way that it is tough to beat the system. But there will still be some loopholes and I am not going to be advising on the loopholes.

I realised that even the suggestion I made earlier is possibly wrong. If you take the money out of the business after taxes, it is the equivalent of you taking remuneration from the business. And so, that cannot be part of your investment. Apologies for that.

For your case, you are switching from T1GE to T1E. Which means you only need to show access to funding, not actual investment (obviously it is easier for the next extension if you show investment).

If you will have the money in your account for 90 days before application, you could use the money to show access to fund. But that will only buy you time. You will still need to find 50K of your own funds in the next three years as new investment.

So, sorry, even if I congratulate you on having a good business, there is no easy way out that I can see to avoid having some new money of your own.

[akap12]

Hi marcnath,
One last question:

If i have a active business with around 30k in funds and I am predicting to have up-to 45k in my business account (as a sole trader/bank statements have my name) in about 3.5 months which is the time I will be applying for my Entrepreneurs visa, can I show my business bank statements along with my personal?
Im not sure I will have the full 50k in my personal.
Or is it okay to transfer my business money to my personal before tax? (I am allowed to use my business money even before tax right?)

Thanks !

On these issues, I always go back to the intent of this route - which is to bring new money and new jobs into the economy and hopefully spur further growth. The requirements are therefore that you have fresh funds of your own.

The criteria is set up in a way that it is tough to beat the system. But there will still be some loopholes and I am not going to be advising on the loopholes.

I realised that even the suggestion I made earlier is possibly wrong. If you take the money out of the business after taxes, it is the equivalent of you taking remuneration from the business. And so, that cannot be part of your investment. Apologies for that.

For your case, you are switching from T1GE to T1E. Which means you only need to show access to funding, not actual investment (obviously it is easier for the next extension if you show investment).

If you will have the money in your account for 90 days before application, you could use the money to show access to fund. But that will only buy you time. You will still need to find 50K of your own funds in the next three years as new investment.

So, sorry, even if I congratulate you on having a good business, there is no easy way out that I can see to avoid having some new money of your own.

Thank again for a prompt reply !

So from what I understand, if you make money by being a graduate entrepreneur, then it doesn't hold value because you have to show 50k from your own account weather or not your business is successful?
What is the difference between me being able to apply as a successful entrepreneur vs someone who wasn't so successful with their business? Doesn't graduate entrepreneur visa website say if a graduate entrepreneur is successful with their business, they may switch to an entrepreneur visa? :/

[marcnath]

Thank again for a prompt reply !

So from what I understand, if you make money by being a graduate entrepreneur, then it doesn't hold value because you have to show 50k from your own account weather or not your business is successful?
What is the difference between me being able to apply as a successful entrepreneur vs someone who wasn't so successful with their business? Doesn't graduate entrepreneur visa website say if a graduate entrepreneur is successful with their business, they may switch to an entrepreneur visa? :/

I appreciate your concerns. You are raising valid policy questions and if I were setting policy, I probably would not do it this way. But as I am not, I can't answer the questions.

But having said that, I also can understand why some of these policies are in place - however silly or unfair they may seem. Part of it so that everyone has an fair and equal chance - for example, they want to avoid the ability for someone to "buy" their way in.

You have been obviously doing a good job and don't let this discourage you. Yes, you may switch to a T1E as was said. But the conditions to switch is something that was clear when you applied for the T1GE and that hasn't changed.

As I said, read the guidance carefully and take professional advice. I think there may be a way around to use that money, but that is a loophole and I am not going to discuss that here as I could be very wrong.