Immigrationboards.com

First, let me say how grateful i am to this forum in giving us advice and help which helped me a lot in doing my research.
i start giving you a bit about my background so you would be able to understand my case:
I am an Algerian guy who received ILR in 2010 and who became British in 2012. I was blessed with a daughter who was born in 2004 in London, but at that time i was an overstayer. Her birth certificate has my full name. Her Mexican mother wasn't married to me but we lived together until her visa expired, i.e. 2006. They now live in Mexico and never came back to UK.


I am planning to naturalise my 8 years old daughter but i need some advice please, most of it in the following few questions:

• Is it wise to use the Nationality checking service for an MN1 application or this is straight forward?
  
  Can i provide 2 Mexican referees from there (one teacher and one doctor) as my daughter was still a baby when she left UK?
  
  The section 4 about good character isn't applicable to my daughter (only for those 10 years old and plus), how about the section 2 about residence, do i need to fill that or provide something?
  
  Finally, i have read that the marriage certificate is a document the HO requests but how about those who were not married? We were living as a couple but marriage was impossible because of my situation then.

Many thanks again

As she was born before 2006 (when the definition of father was changed to include unmarried), and you never got married, she is not entitled to register as BC under section 1(3). She will need to apply under section 3(1) which is at discretion. As she is not living in the UK any more, I don't believe the HO will grant her British citizenship.

Jambo wrote:As she was born before 2006 (when the definition of father was changed to include unmarried), and you never got married, she is not entitled to register as BC under section 1(3). She will need to apply under section 3(1) which is at discretion. As she is not living in the UK any more, I don't believe the HO will grant her British citizenship.

oh! even we were living together as a couple and i gave her my surname ,i.e. there is a 100% proof of paternity?

also, in your sticky post:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=95747

you said clearly: "In the child was born in the UK before one parent had ILR/PR, then once one parent is granted ILR, the child is entitled register as BC under section 1(3) of the British Nationality Act irrespective of their immigration status. "

i am confused now

Until the change in law in 2006, a father of a child born out of wedlock was not considered a parent for naturalisation purposes.

As said, she is not eligible under 1(3) but could have applied under 3(1) (discretion) if she was living in the UK.

Jambo wrote:Until the change in law in 2006, a father of a child born out of wedlock was not considered a parent for naturalisation purposes.

As said, she is not eligible under 1(3) but could have applied under 3(1) (discretion) if she was living in the UK.

Thanks , i guess your sticky post was regarding children born after 2006

Yes i saw in the UKBA website the case 3(1) but they never mention that my daughter needs to be in UK, although i totally agree that they will use their discretion on such cases.

Jambo wrote:As she was born before 2006 (when the definition of father was changed to include unmarried), and you never got married, she is not entitled to register as BC under section 1(3). She will need to apply under section 3(1) which is at discretion. As she is not living in the UK any more, I don't believe the HO will grant her British citizenship.

If applied for, British citizenship will normally be granted under section 3(1) because there would have been a section 1(3) entitlement if the parents had been married.

This is one of the scenarios where residence in the U.K. is not required for section 3(1).

Details on the UKBA site:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ishfather/

Also confirmed in the Nationality Instructions, chapter 9, section 9 (not relevant here, but also applies if the father is "settled" instead of BC).
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... ns/nivol1/

Application has to be made before age 18.

krihoum,

I was wrong. Please follow JAJ's advice.

JAJ wrote:

Jambo wrote:As she was born before 2006 (when the definition of father was changed to include unmarried), and you never got married, she is not entitled to register as BC under section 1(3). She will need to apply under section 3(1) which is at discretion. As she is not living in the UK any more, I don't believe the HO will grant her British citizenship.

If applied for, British citizenship will normally be granted under section 3(1) because there would have been a section 1(3) entitlement if the parents had been married.

This is one of the scenarios where residence in the U.K. is not required for section 3(1).

Details on the UKBA site:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ishfather/

Also confirmed in the Nationality Instructions, chapter 9, section 9 (not relevant here, but also applies if the father is "settled" instead of BC).
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... ns/nivol1/

Application has to be made before age 18.

thanks for that i will then apply asap for my daughter
however, i would like the answer to these 2 questions if it's possible:

"The section 4 about good character isn't applicable to my daughter (only for those 10 years old and plus), how about the section 2 about residence, do i need to fill that or provide something?

Finally, i have read that the marriage certificate is a document the HO requests but how about those who were not married? We were living as a couple but marriage was impossible because of my situation then."


thanks

krihoum wrote:"The section 4 about good character isn't applicable to my daughter (only for those 10 years old and plus), how about the section 2 about residence, do i need to fill that or provide something?

MN1 is an all-purpose form that covers many different situations. If a section is not applicable, then write that. Otherwise answer truthfully.

Residence is not required for this kind of application.

Finally, i have read that the marriage certificate is a document the HO requests but how about those who were not married? We were living as a couple but marriage was impossible because of my situation then."

They won't ask for marriage certificate. As explained in the Nationality Instructions, they will normally register a child of an unmarried British father as a citizen if the child would have been British has the parents been married.

And when the Home Office say they "normally" do something then it means they will do it, unless there are some very special reasons.

i think you have answered everything i needed to know and i can't thank you enough
i will now proceed by preparing the form and referees, and i might use the NCS service just in case i miss anything

cheers guys

krihoum wrote:i think you have answered everything i needed to know and i can't thank you enough
i will now proceed by preparing the form and referees, and i might use the NCS service just in case i miss anything

The Home Office will probably want her mother to consent to the application. Although this requirement can be waived if consent is refused without any reasonable basis.

i am in touch with her mother still and we could have been married if i wasn't an overstayer when my daughter was born, so i have no issue with her consent at all. She is 100% with me in this.

She actually will need to provide the two referees from Mexico (teacher and doctor) because my daughter left UK when she was 1 year old.

I just hope the lack of marriage certificate and the fact she is living in Mexico, won't be an obstacle.

thanks again

hi guys

just an update on this : i have an appointment with the NCS service on March 19th but the guy before giving me the date of the appointment called the home office and said that it's not looking good because i need to give a good reason why my daughter needs her registration!
I find this worrying and ridiculous at the same time, however i still will submit the file and wish me good luck.

I will use the replies from JAJ to put a comment in the MN1 form, explaining why i think my daughter should be British, but if anyone can help me in putting this in a "lawful" terms I would be very grateful

thanks

Note that NCS do not decide the application. If someone working for NCS purports to do so, you should politely point out that it's basically not their job. If they persist, make complaint to council + Home Office.

Also note that if they call the Home Office "helpline" the person answering the phone doesn't necessarily know what the Nationality Instructions say either. Especially about a case as unusual as this.

There is no better advice than to use the Nationality Instructions as guidance. Bring printout of relevant section to appointment.

I really appreciate all your positive feedback and comments.

Can i submit those print outs as part of the MN1 file too?

thanks

krihoum wrote:I really appreciate all your positive feedback and comments.

Can i submit those print outs as part of the MN1 file too?

You are entitled to submit any supporting evidence that you like. And considering that this application is so far outside the usual experience of those in NCS, it is recommended to do so. It means that if the NCS person says your child doesn't qualify, you can show them a Home Office document saying that she does. They cannot make up additional requirements that are not shown.

i will do and the chapter 9 that you linked me to, has definitely some interesting information

i will give you an update when i see them on march 19 and also when i receive a reply from the HO, hoping it wil be positive

thanks a lot

Hi krihoum, I will use a solicitor if I were you in this kind of circumstances. why not seek a legal advise before giving away your 551.00.
Please don`t take me wrong, just my opinion.

cobra wrote:Hi krihoum, I will use a solicitor if I were you in this kind of circumstances. why not seek a legal advise before giving away your 551.00.
Please don`t take me wrong, just my opinion.

Why does he need legal advice? The Nationality Instructions are quite clear. I am not sure what value a solicitor could add other than to repeat them

cobra wrote:Hi krihoum, I will use a solicitor if I were you in this kind of circumstances. why not seek a legal advise before giving away your 551.00.
Please don`t take me wrong, just my opinion.

yes i thought about it but as JAJ said, i had experience with a solicitor when i submitted my ILR request and i noticed that he didn't help a lot. Actually i was the one who pushed my case through an MP, then i got a positive answer.

Besides, this case has clear instructions, and the decision might be at discretion i agree, but a solicitor won't add anything

The other thing i forgot to mention is the NCS officer had to call the HO because i told him my daughter lives in MEXICO and not in UK, but as JAJ said before, this case isn't based on residency and he clearly didn't have to check that with the HO.

thanks anyway

just a quick update: i went to the NCS yesterday and submitted the MN1 form. The guy was asking me things like her passport etc.. I explained to him that this is not required in her case, besides she is in Mexico, how can i get it? Obviously they think we must provide ALL documents, even if it's not the relevant section. At the end, i convinced him and he also called the HO to check whether something is missing; they asked me to provide the naturalisation certificate on the top of the passport, which i did.

I just need to wait now

thanks guys

as promised, i have an update for this post: Yesterday i received a positive reply from the home office, the registration certificate was sent to my daughter and I am very happy.
A great thank you to the people who helped me in this forum, especially JAJ who always found some time to reply to my questions and to give me optimism.

I hope this post will also provide some useful information to others who are in the same situation as my case.

Cheers