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EU citizen married to British Citizen...
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 6:30 pm
by Mark.Boats
Hi all
Getting a little ahead of ourselves but it never hurts to plan ahead. Just want to confirm that I'm reading into this correctly and not missing something...
I'm a BC from birth, my fiancée is Croatian, we intend to live permanently in the UK. Croatia will join the EU on 1/7/13 and as my wife she will be exempt from the labour market restrictions.
She is keen to naturalise in the UK, and I'm looking at how we go about it in the future. The situation as I see it is that she needs to meet three basic requirements (as well as the usual good character, sound mind etc etc):
*To have been living in the UK for three years
*To have ILR at the time of application (but not required to have held it for a year)
*To be married to me (obviously!)
Am I reading this correctly? As I see it we have to wait five years before she can get ILR as an EU citizen exercising treaty rights? This is what I've read but on
the gov.uk website they don't mention ILR in the section for spouses of British Citizens?
Given our experience so far with the UKBA the only certainties are that it will be frustrating, lengthy and expensive...
Re: EU citizen married to British Citizen...
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:00 pm
by Amber
Mark.Boats wrote:Hi all
Getting a little ahead of ourselves but it never hurts to plan ahead. Just want to confirm that I'm reading into this correctly and not missing something...
I'm a BC from birth, my fiancée is Croatian, we intend to live permanently in the UK. Croatia will join the EU on 1/7/13 and as my wife she will be exempt from the labour market restrictions.
She is keen to naturalise in the UK, and I'm looking at how we go about it in the future. The situation as I see it is that she needs to meet three basic requirements (as well as the usual good character, sound mind etc etc):
*To have been living in the UK for three years
*To have ILR at the time of application (but not required to have held it for a year)
*To be married to me (obviously!)
Am I reading this correctly? As I see it we have to wait five years before she can get ILR as an EU citizen exercising treaty rights? This is what I've read but on
the gov.uk website they don't mention ILR in the section for spouses of British Citizens?
Given our experience so far with the UKBA the only certainties are that it will be frustrating, lengthy and expensive...
Is your wife in Croatia now if not what is her immigration status in the UK? Yes she needs to be settled in order to naturalise, that is either have ILR (for a spouse that now takes 5 years) or Permanent Residence/PR which is also a five year process but cheaper and arguably less restrictive than ILR which now has a strict financial requirement and criminality check.
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:16 pm
by Mark.Boats
Thanks D4109125
Currently we are both in Croatia yes, we intend to enter the UK under EU free movement rights
I didn't realise the ILR route for spouses was now five years as well - seems like it's just worth waiting five years and applying for Permanent Residence
Is there any potential pitfalls in taking that route? Obviously she'll need to be exercising treaty rights, will she also need comprehensive sickness insurance for the five year period?
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:42 pm
by Amber
Mark.Boats wrote:Thanks D4109125
Currently we are both in Croatia yes, we intend to enter the UK under EU free movement rights
I didn't realise the ILR route for spouses was now five years as well - seems like it's just worth waiting five years and applying for Permanent Residence
Is there any potential pitfalls in taking that route? Obviously she'll need to be exercising treaty rights, will she also need comprehensive sickness insurance for the five year period?
I'm not sure if the uk is bringing in special rules for Croatia such as registered work or authorised work? You don't technically need to apply for PR though it helps when applying for naturalisation as it cuts back on paperwork.
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 7:50 pm
by Mark.Boats
Yes, UK is intending to bring in the same restrictions they did for Romanian and Bulgarian citizens, thankfully spouses of British Citizens are exempt...
From what I've seen partners of BCs don't need to have held PR/ILR for a year like most people applying for naturalisation so we could get PR then she could immediately naturalise...
When you say "cuts down on paperwork" could you elaborate? Applying for PR via the EEA forms seems to take anything right up to and beyond the six month limit, if we could immediately apply for naturalisation it might be quicker for us to just gather more paperwork and submit one application for BC rather than one for PR then another for BC - if you see what I mean?
Re: EU citizen married to British Citizen...
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:00 pm
by EUsmileWEallsmile
Mark.Boats wrote:Hi all
Getting a little ahead of ourselves but it never hurts to plan ahead. Just want to confirm that I'm reading into this correctly and not missing something...
I'm a BC from birth, my fiancée is Croatian, we intend to live permanently in the UK. Croatia will join the EU on 1/7/13 and as my wife she will be exempt from the labour market restrictions.
She is keen to naturalise in the UK, and I'm looking at how we go about it in the future. The situation as I see it is that she needs to meet three basic requirements (as well as the usual good character, sound mind etc etc):
*To have been living in the UK for three years
*To have ILR at the time of application (but not required to have held it for a year)
*To be married to me (obviously!)
Am I reading this correctly? As I see it we have to wait five years before she can get ILR as an EU citizen exercising treaty rights? This is what I've read but on
the gov.uk website they don't mention ILR in the section for spouses of British Citizens?
Given our experience so far with the UKBA the only certainties are that it will be frustrating, lengthy and expensive... :lol:
From what I understand, there would be no real advantage in your future wife being married to a UK national in terms of citizenship (other than not having to wait six years).
Up to recently, it would have been possible to make a paid EU residence certificate application and take advantage of the shorter residency for spouses.
Something to watch out for...she will need to exercise treaty rights for five years (worker, student, self-sufficient - the latter two requiring health insurance).
Re: EU citizen married to British Citizen...
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:28 pm
by Mark.Boats
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Something to watch out for...she will need to exercise treaty rights for five years (worker, student, self-sufficient - the latter two requiring health insurance).
Thanks EUsmileWEallsmile
That's what I was expecting - I don't suppose there's any guidance issued beyond the widely vague "covering most illnesses" definition given by the UKBA?
You know how good they are at misinterpreting things when it suits them...
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:29 pm
by Jambo
Assuming you marry before moving to the UK, and that you have worked in the EU, I would suggest to apply using Surinder Singh. Your wife should apply for a Registration Certificate (EEA1) based on Surinder Singh. It's a bit of unusal application (as EEA national normally doesn't need to rely on a sponsor) but the advantage would be that she would not be required to exercise treaty rights in the UK and after 5 years of residence will obtain PR and can naturalise.
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:41 pm
by Mark.Boats
Jambo, now you've got my attention!!
As you might remember from my time over in the EEA forum, they only refused our Singh application due to us not being married, tacitly accepting our work abroad as qualifying for a Singh route to the UK...
We are intending to try and come to the UK early/mid-June, with her applying for a temporary entry until Croatia joins the EU a few weeks later. Due to the legally mandated waiting periods for marrying we will be marrying in Croatia at the end of July and no earlier
Do you think it would be possible to come to the UK in June (or 1st July if they refuse before Croatia accedes), then after marrying at the end of July (in Croatia) apply using the EEA1 form and Singh from within the UK?
That would certainly help, saving us spending £30pm on health insurance if she's not employed for any length of time!!
That is, of course, assuming
they ever send our documents back!!!
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:00 pm
by Mark.Boats
Looking at the form EEA1, it's not for Bulgarian or Romanian nationals
I'm guessing, but as the UKBA intends to apply the same work restrictions to Croatian nationals I doubt we'd be able to use it
...however...
Bulgarian and Romanians have their own form BR1:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... ormbr1.pdf
That is also an application for a registration certificate
This is the type of form we were anticipating using to confirm my partner's right to work in the UK once we're married
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:16 pm
by Jambo
I stand behind what I wrote. She will not be applying as a spouse of any British citizen (in which case BR1 would be the right form) but as a family member of a Surinder Singh case and as such EEA1 would be the right form. The same way EEA1 would be made in case of a Romanian who is married to a French person exercising treaty rights. As the application is not based on the A2 rights but on the non A2 EEA national, the application should be made to Liverpool (who deals with non A2 EEA applications) and not Sheffield (who deal with BR forms).
However I suggest you make this clear in a cover letter as Liverpool tends to forward any A2 applicants they see automatically to Sheffield without examining them (and then Sheffield will send it back as this is a EEA1. An endless loop).
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:19 pm
by Mark.Boats
Thanks Jambo - I was totally unaware that we could do that
I shall have another look through the EEA1 form
So if I have it right, an application using the EEA1 form would mean we would still have to wait five years for PR but that my wife wouldn't have to demonstrate treaty rights for those five years to qualify?
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:25 pm
by Jambo
Mark.Boats wrote:As you might remember from my time over in the EEA forum, they only refused our Singh application due to us not being married, tacitly accepting our work abroad as qualifying for a Singh route to the UK...
The fact they didn't refuse the application on your employment doesn't necessary means they approved it or that they will once you apply in the UK.
Do you think it would be possible to come to the UK in June (or 1st July if they refuse before Croatia accedes), then after marrying at the end of July (in Croatia) apply using the EEA1 form and Singh from within the UK?
Yes (and it won't cost you anything to try).
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:30 pm
by Mark.Boats
Thanks Jambo
Yes, hopefully they won't create a fuss and let us just get on with living our lives - but as you say they could well refuse our application due to the weird employment setup...
If they do that, we can always fall back on her exercising treaty rights for five years and applying for PR then...
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:49 pm
by Jambo
Mark.Boats wrote:Thanks Jambo - I was totally unaware that we could do that
Just so you don't think it is just my view.
I shall have another look through the EEA1 form
So if I have it right, an application using the EEA1 form would mean we would still have to wait five years for PR but that my wife wouldn't have to demonstrate treaty rights for those five years to qualify?
Yep.
Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:53 pm
by Mark.Boats
That's awesome information Jambo - thanks for digging out the ECIS reference as well
We'll get right on to this as soon as we're back in the UK...
Romanian national married to British national
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:48 am
by Raj5
If the the Romanian national who is married to a British national is not exercising his Treaty rights nor his British wife. Can he apply for the British citizenship after completing 5 years in the UK? He has had Blue registration certificate for 5 years but did not work here. Both have lived in the UK for 5 years but most of the part of their stay they have not worked in the UK.
Re: Romanian national married to British national
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:55 am
by Amber
Raj5 wrote:If the the Romanian national who is married to a British national is not exercising his Treaty rights nor his British wife. Can he apply for the British citizenship after completing 5 years in the UK? He has had Blue registration certificate for 5 years but did not work here. Both have lived in the UK for 5 years but most of the part of their stay they have not worked in the UK.
What were they doing if not working?
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:16 pm
by Mark.Boats
Mark.Boats wrote:We'll get right on to this as soon as we're back in the UK...
Well...
We're back in the UK, Mr. and Mrs. "Boats" legally...
Now we're looking at forms, is the form EEA1 still the one to use? It seems like it and nothing in the "Croatian Nationals" section of the UKBA website allows us to use Singh to get a worker certificate...
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:05 pm
by Jambo
Mark.Boats wrote:Mark.Boats wrote:We'll get right on to this as soon as we're back in the UK...
Well...
We're back in the UK, Mr. and Mrs. "Boats" legally...
Now we're looking at forms, is the form EEA1 still the one to use? It seems like it and nothing in the "Croatian Nationals" section of the UKBA website allows us to use Singh to get a worker certificate...
Yes. EEA1.
This is not a typical Croatian application but a family member of a British citizen applying under Singh. As I said, a cover letter explaining her case and the reason for EEA1 is recommended as you don't want inexperienced HO worker to treat this (wrongly) is a Croatian application.
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:32 am
by Mark.Boats
Hi Jambo
Thanks again for the help
Just reading through the EEA1 form (the
new EEA1 form with the £55 charge attached
) and spotted this question:
5.2 Were you the family member of the UK national at a time when they were exercising treaty rights as a worker or self-employed person in another EEA member state?
At the time of my working outside the UK we were not married, so I suppose technically the answer to this question is no...
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:43 am
by vinny
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:31 am
by Jambo
Mark.Boats wrote:Hi Jambo
Thanks again for the help
Just reading through the EEA1 form (the
new EEA1 form with the £55 charge attached
) and spotted this question:
5.2 Were you the family member of the UK national at a time when they were exercising treaty rights as a worker or self-employed person in another EEA member state?
At the time of my working outside the UK we were not married, so I suppose technically the answer to this question is no...
Answering No should not change things. See Regulation
9(2)(b).
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:26 pm
by Mark.Boats
Thanks guys. We'll be on this once we get the bank account, driving licence, NI number sorted and can afford to be without her passport for however long they hang onto it...