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Hi, I am going to submit my British naturalisation application next Thursday based on 5 years Working Permit (2008 to 2013) + 1.5 years ILR. I need some advise regarding employment history as I first came to the UK as working holiday maker. Some timeline below:
Aug 2007- arrive in the Uk as working holiday maker
Oct 2007 –start work with company A (with working holiday visa)
July 2008 – Company A applied for work permit for me and approved. I stopped work end of July 2008, then going on a one month tour around UK/Europe
Sep 2008 - went back to my home country (Malaysia) to apply for entry clearance on my new work permit
Nov 2008 – Entry clearance approved. Flew back to the UK end of Nov.
Dec 2008 – continue work with Company A as work permit holder

Although I didn’t do any work for them during Aug-Nov 2008 and not getting any pay, I am still considered being employed by the company with unpaid leave (e.g. no P45 issued etc)

I am planning to put in Section 2.1 Date of first Arrival to UK as the date I enter as work permit holder on 26 Nov 2008.

So my question is how should I enter my employment history. I am thinking of enter them as two separate line items as I am not working (not in the UK) between those period:
1 Oct 2007- 31 July 2008, with Company A
1 Dec 2008- Present, with Company A

Or should I just enter below as I didn't really leave the company.
1 Oct 2007- Present, with Company A

but at the same time I also don't want them to mis-interpret that I have work more than 12 months under working holiday visa.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi there,

Your situation is similar to mine. I'll need to look at the scans of my form to recall what I've written. Technically what we have done is illegal, I.e. Remained employed for > 12 months while under WHM. I hired a barrister to write a supporting letter for my ILR application.

I'm on holiday but will get back to you when I return to England.

Hi Happyguy82,
Thanks for your reply.

Do you submit any letter referring to this matter when you apply for naturalisation? I already got my ILR back in Oct 2013 without having to write any supporting letter pertaining to this matter.

Technically I only work for 10 months then went back to Malaysia to apply for entry clearance for work permit. However there was a delay and I only got my entry clearance in Nov '08. I was asked to go for an interview and from the questions the officer asked I could sense she thinks we misused the WHV however we did not break the rules i.e. did not work over 12 months so she have no choice but to approve my entry clearance then.

I have already made an appt at NCS this thursday so hopefully you will be back by then. Have a good holiday!

vivienp wrote:Hi, I am going to submit my British naturalisation application next Thursday based on 5 years Working Permit (2008 to 2013) + 1.5 years ILR. I need some advise regarding employment history as I first came to the UK as working holiday maker. Some timeline below:
Aug 2007- arrive in the Uk as working holiday maker
Oct 2007 –start work with company A (with working holiday visa)
July 2008 – Company A applied for work permit for me and approved. I stopped work end of July 2008, then going on a one month tour around UK/Europe
Sep 2008 - went back to my home country (Malaysia) to apply for entry clearance on my new work permit
Nov 2008 – Entry clearance approved. Flew back to the UK end of Nov.
Dec 2008 – continue work with Company A as work permit holder

Although I didn’t do any work for them during Aug-Nov 2008 and not getting any pay, I am still considered being employed by the company with unpaid leave (e.g. no P45 issued etc)

I am planning to put in Section 2.1 Date of first Arrival to UK as the date I enter as work permit holder on 26 Nov 2008.

So my question is how should I enter my employment history. I am thinking of enter them as two separate line items as I am not working (not in the UK) between those period:
1 Oct 2007- 31 July 2008, with Company A
1 Dec 2008- Present, with Company A

Or should I just enter below as I didn't really leave the company.
1 Oct 2007- Present, with Company A

but at the same time I also don't want them to mis-interpret that I have work more than 12 months under working holiday visa.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi there,

In Section 2.1 your date should be the day you arrived as a Tier-2 holder, not WHM because the guide clearly says "Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis". So yes 26 Nov 2008.

I've just looked through my Form AN and can't find anything on employment history. Is this a new requirement on the new form? When I applied for ILR I included the history working as WHM. Just declare the facts, so since you worked you'll need to list it down.

Hope this helps.

Contradictory to what was said in the post

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 88058.html

Hi Happyguy82,
Yes the employment history is added in the new form recently.

I am planning to include the WHM working period, just not sure whether I should include a note saying I didn't work in between Aug-Nov2008 when I went back to my home country to apply EC as WP holder. Or may be I don't need to do this, HO can see for themselves in their records?

just put the very first date u arrived in the UK and explain on the extra information page at the back, page 23 or something, and explain as you have here.

vivienp wrote:Hi Happyguy82,
Yes the employment history is added in the new form recently.

I am planning to include the WHM working period, just not sure whether I should include a note saying I didn't work in between Aug-Nov2008 when I went back to my home country to apply EC as WP holder. Or may be I don't need to do this, HO can see for themselves in their records?

When I applied for ILR, my barrister wrote that I first came to the UK under WHM, then after 10 months of working I went back to Malaysia and subsequently applied for Tier-1 G from Kuala Lumpur. I then came back here to continue working.

yesilgozlerim wrote:just put the very first date u arrived in the UK and explain on the extra information page at the back, page 23 or something, and explain as you have here.

not for Section 2.1 because if you come as WHM you're meant to leave after 2 years and not have a view of settling here. If she specifies the WHM start date then she would have breached the terms of her visa.

happyguy82 wrote:

yesilgozlerim wrote:just put the very first date u arrived in the UK and explain on the extra information page at the back, page 23 or something, and explain as you have here.

not for Section 2.1 because if you come as WHM you're meant to leave after 2 years and not have a view of settling here. If she specifies the WHM start date then she would have breached the terms of her visa.

It is ok to put the first arrival date in 2.1. Read my other post. NCS themselves asked one of the applicant to put that. and one of the person did get the citizenship. so its absolutely fine

HarryC wrote:

happyguy82 wrote:

yesilgozlerim wrote:just put the very first date u arrived in the UK and explain on the extra information page at the back, page 23 or something, and explain as you have here.

not for Section 2.1 because if you come as WHM you're meant to leave after 2 years and not have a view of settling here. If she specifies the WHM start date then she would have breached the terms of her visa.

It is ok to put the first arrival date in 2.1. Read my other post. NCS themselves asked one of the applicant to put that. and one of the person did get the citizenship. so its absolutely fine

Just because an application is granted doesn't mean that the application is correct. Just look on this thread alone and you'll find many ill advised moves. Some people even put down their ILR card number as the HO Reference number.

At the end of the day they do apply a little leniency so it shouldn't matter; but why enter something incorrect and take the chance?

When applying for WHM you have agreed that you do not intend to reside in the UK after that period. therefore this shouldn't be the date entered in 2.1, unless of course the applicant was lying previously during the WHM application. If it says 'with a view of staying in the UK on a long term basis' then obviously it has to be a visa category that actually leads to ILR rather than a temporal one.

I agree with happyguy.

Since you mentioned HO reference number, what should I put on Item 1.1? Is this applicable?

happyguy82 wrote:At the end of the day they do apply a little leniency so it shouldn't matter; but why enter something incorrect and take the chance?

When applying for WHM you have agreed that you do not intend to reside in the UK after that period. therefore this shouldn't be the date entered in 2.1, unless of course the applicant was lying previously during the WHM application. If it says 'with a view of staying in the UK on a long term basis' then obviously it has to be a visa category that actually leads to ILR rather than a temporal one.

Agree. And this question does get asked repeatedly in this forum... Another recent thread
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1198331

vivienp wrote:Since you mentioned HO reference number, what should I put on Item 1.1? Is this applicable?

The HO reference field is optional, I've always left it blank in all my applications. You can enter it if you know what it is and have it from previous HO correspondence.

vivienp wrote:I agree with happyguy.

Since you mentioned HO reference number, what should I put on Item 1.1? Is this applicable?

A HO reference number is a letter followed by 7 or 8 digits. This has been confirmed by my immigration barrister who is on the UK's Bar Council. I left it blank because I did not have one. Most applicants who had a 'normal route' like us wouldn't have this. Leave it blank. I've left it blank on my Tier-1 G, ILR and Naturalisation applications.

Hmmmm

Odd then why NCS will ask you to put the date you first entered irrespective of your intention.
anyways, will the time spent on Working holiday maker count towards "5 years residency requirement"?
I came on WHM in 2009 and got my spouse visa in 2010

HarryC wrote:Hmmmm

Odd then why NCS will ask you to put the date you first entered irrespective of your intention.
anyways, will the time spent on Working holiday maker count towards "5 years residency requirement"?
I came on WHM in 2009 and got my spouse visa in 2010

no it doesn't count because WHM can't lead to long term residency; which is why it would count as breaching the WHM terms if you put this date down. NCS staff aren't lawyers by profession Once again, the fact that your application gets approved doesn't meant that it was correct in the first place.

happyguy82 wrote:

HarryC wrote:Hmmmm

Odd then why NCS will ask you to put the date you first entered irrespective of your intention.
anyways, will the time spent on Working holiday maker count towards "5 years residency requirement"?
I came on WHM in 2009 and got my spouse visa in 2010

no it doesn't count because WHM can't lead to long term residency; which is why it would count as breaching the WHM terms if you put this date down. NCS staff aren't lawyers by profession Once again, the fact that your application gets approved doesn't meant that it was correct in the first place.

Oh ok. Good job i didnt apply last month then because i came in the UK on Jan 2009 as WHM and then got married and got spouse visa on 28th Aug 2010. So guess i would be able to apply for naturalisation after this date ?

HarryC wrote:

happyguy82 wrote:

HarryC wrote:Hmmmm

Odd then why NCS will ask you to put the date you first entered irrespective of your intention.
anyways, will the time spent on Working holiday maker count towards "5 years residency requirement"?
I came on WHM in 2009 and got my spouse visa in 2010

no it doesn't count because WHM can't lead to long term residency; which is why it would count as breaching the WHM terms if you put this date down. NCS staff aren't lawyers by profession Once again, the fact that your application gets approved doesn't meant that it was correct in the first place.

Oh ok. Good job i didnt apply last month then because i came in the UK on Jan 2009 as WHM and then got married and got spouse visa on 28th Aug 2010. So guess i would be able to apply for naturalisation after this date ?

Ahh I'm not sure what the residency requirement for spouse visa holders applying for Naturalisation is. It's different for some categories. I only know it's 5 years for work categories, plus 1 year on a visa that has no expiry date e.g. ILR thus the total for most people would be either 5 or 6 years.

HarryC wrote:Oh ok. Good job i didnt apply last month then because i came in the UK on Jan 2009 as WHM and then got married and got spouse visa on 28th Aug 2010. So guess i would be able to apply for naturalisation after this date ?

If you currently have indefinite leave to remain in the UK, and are married to a British citizen then you would be able to apply for naturalisation any time you wish, so long as you meet all other requirements explained in the AN form & guide.

cs95tdg wrote:

HarryC wrote:Oh ok. Good job i didnt apply last month then because i came in the UK on Jan 2009 as WHM and then got married and got spouse visa on 28th Aug 2010. So guess i would be able to apply for naturalisation after this date ?

If you currently have indefinite leave to remain in the UK, and are married to a British citizen then you would be able to apply for naturalisation any time you wish, so long as you meet all other requirements explained in the AN form & guide.

but the applicant needs to have the spousal visa for at least 1 year right?

happyguy82 wrote:

HarryC wrote:Hmmmm

Odd then why NCS will ask you to put the date you first entered irrespective of your intention.
anyways, will the time spent on Working holiday maker count towards "5 years residency requirement"?
I came on WHM in 2009 and got my spouse visa in 2010

no it doesn't count because WHM can't lead to long term residency; which is why it would count as breaching the WHM terms if you put this date down. NCS staff aren't lawyers by profession Once again, the fact that your application gets approved doesn't meant that it was correct in the first place.

Agreed. WHM does not count towards residency and hence the reason why I did not put down this date when I applied for my naturalisation.

happyguy82 wrote:

cs95tdg wrote:

HarryC wrote:Oh ok. Good job i didnt apply last month then because i came in the UK on Jan 2009 as WHM and then got married and got spouse visa on 28th Aug 2010. So guess i would be able to apply for naturalisation after this date ?

If you currently have indefinite leave to remain in the UK, and are married to a British citizen then you would be able to apply for naturalisation any time you wish, so long as you meet all other requirements explained in the AN form & guide.

but the applicant needs to have the spousal visa for at least 1 year right?

No, spouses can apply immediately after obtaining ILR, assuming they have lived in the UK for 3 years.

Spoke to UKBA
they first asked me to put the date i first entered i.e WHM visa date and i said to them that at that time i didnt enter to live in UK permanently. When i got my spouse visa in 2010 then I obviously intended to be here permanently.
I got ILR in 2012.
I am nw divorced so will be applying on residency terms. So guess i need to put the date when my spouse visavwas granted?

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 88058.html

Interesting debate here.
Ncs lady spoke to UKBA and they asked to put the first date of arrival completely different to guide.

HarryC wrote:Spoke to UKBA
they first asked me to put the date i first entered i.e WHM visa date and i said to them that at that time i didnt enter to live in UK permanently. When i got my spouse visa in 2010 then I obviously intended to be here permanently.
I got ILR in 2012.
I am nw divorced so will be applying on residency terms. So guess i need to put the date when my spouse visavwas granted?

Yes, based on your circumstances that would be the most appropriate.