Immigrationboards.com

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:20 pm**

Hello i'm 18 years old and i have just attempted to apply for my British citizenship. I have lived in the UK since December 2005, so thought it wouldn't be too difficult. Boy was i wrong, after an English test ( apparently 2 GCSE's in English isn't good enough) and a life in the UK test I was turned down for not being medically insured in the past. I was raised in foster care with little contact from family and never heard of this health insurance thing. Anyways now i'm being told to apply in 6 years time. I don't think this is fair and something feels wrong. can someone help? My older brother applied for citizenship several years ago and he didn't seem to have any problems. he didn't even have to take a English test and he doesn't have a GCSE in English! anyways any form of help would be appreciated. thanks

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:00 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:Hello i'm 18 years old and i have just attempted to apply for my British citizenship. I have lived in the UK since December 2005, so thought it wouldn't be too difficult. Boy was i wrong, after an English test ( apparently 2 GCSE's in English isn't good enough) and a life in the UK test I was turned down for not being medically insured in the past. I was raised in foster care with little contact from family and never heard of this health insurance thing. Anyways now i'm being told to apply in 6 years time. I don't think this is fair and something feels wrong. can someone help? My older brother applied for citizenship several years ago and he didn't seem to have any problems. he didn't even have to take a English test and he doesn't have a GCSE in English! anyways any form of help would be appreciated. thanks

Sorry to hear of the challenges you faced.
You certainly need to take advantage of any & all guidance & advice this forum (& other places) can offer.

Do you have anyone assisting you?
- for example, a local CAB office or local law centre or a migrant support group or similar?
If not, I suggest you try to reach out for such support depending where you live in UK and what is available within reach.

In the meantime, here are some pointers ...
The requirements for naturalisation are summarised here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n_2015.pdf

For knowledge of life & language (KOLL), unfortunately GCSEs are not accepted.
Language requirements are found here:
https://www.gov.uk/english-language/overview
(minors, defined as under 18 years old are one category who are exempt)

To help others here to help you, could you mention your current nationality and on what basis you are in UK;
for example, do you have PR or ILR (etc)?
are you a refugee?

Are you actually over 18 or almost 18?

Have you attempted /passed the LITUK test?

Have you actually just applied to naturalise and been refused or was it an enquiry that you made?
- if you applied, was it direct to HO or via a local council NCS?

Considering you have been here since 2005 which is approx 10 years, there is a 10-year option which may or may not be open to you.

Did 'they' explain why you need to wait for 6 years?
Do you have a detailed refusal letter?

This obviously wasn't a good day for you but don't give up, plenty of people here that together can offer help & advice.

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:15 pm**

One more suggestion.
it may help you to see what information HO holds about you.

To get hold of this you can request a 'SAR' - it costs just £10 & should be processed inside 40days.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:43 pm**

(1) My Nationality is Dutch, my mother moved here for unknown reasons (shortly afterwards we went into care as she became ill, She has since been transferred back to the Netherlands) I thought i was a permanent Resident but it was confirmed that i'm not.
(2) I am over 18 approaching 19.
(3) I passed my life in the UK Test and the Trinity college London English test ( which is the latest one apparently)
(4) I made an inquiry and then they told me that because i had not paid health insurance that i couldn't proceed with my application. I was completely oblivious that health insurance was needed and nobody applied for it on my behalf.
(5) there was no detailed refusal letter, the lady told me that because i haven't applied for Permanent residence or paid for health insurance i have to wait 6 years. She told me that I must sign for private health insurance for when I go to Uni ( which i'm planning to on Sept 2015) and then work after university and keep my P45/P60's as proof that i have been working.
(6) I have nobody assisting a part from my social worker,i have done most of it my self with her looking over my application. could you give me any contact details on any one I could contact for support?

Thanks Hanad

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:00 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:(1) My Nationality is Dutch, my mother moved here for unknown reasons (shortly afterwards we went into care as she became ill, She has since been transferred back to the Netherlands) I thought i was a permanent Resident but it was confirmed that i'm not.
(2) I am over 18 approaching 19.
(3) I passed my life in the UK Test and the Trinity college London English test ( which is the latest one apparently)
(4) I made an inquiry and then they told me that because i had not paid health insurance that i couldn't proceed with my application. I was completely oblivious that health insurance was needed and nobody applied for it on my behalf.
(5) there was no detailed refusal letter, the lady told me that because i haven't applied for Permanent residence or paid for health insurance i have to wait 6 years. She told me that I must sign for private health insurance for when I go to Uni ( which i'm planning to on Sept 2015) and then work after university and keep my P45/P60's as proof that i have been working.
(6) I have nobody assisting a part from my social worker,i have done most of it my self with her looking over my application. could you give me any contact details on any one I could contact for support?

Thanks Hanad

So the advice you received is based on fact you are an EEA national and now working towards PR; that must be why the 5+1 (6) years has been mentioned.

It would be worth checking if the UK's health insurance requirement really did apply whilst you were a minor;
(I'm not sure about EEA routes to citizenship as my wife is from outside EEA).
I know EEA adults need health insurance if staying in the UK but it seems an unfair burden on a minor

Also do you have (or have you ever had) an EHIC card?

Regarding 6.
The social worker may have contacts that could help you within her organisation (council).

Anyway, wherever you live there should be a local CAB office - some (larger offices) may have a dedicated immigration adviser;
here is their national website:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... mmigration

& here is a list of migrant related support groups:
http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/about/advice-services
again it probably depends where you live for which of these are the best or easiest for you to tap into.

Good luck.

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:31 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:(1) My Nationality is Dutch, my mother moved here for unknown reasons (shortly afterwards we went into care as she became ill, She has since been transferred back to the Netherlands) I thought i was a permanent Resident but it was confirmed that i'm not.

...

Thanks Hanad

Apologies for personal questions;
How long was your mother in UK?
- was it possibly long enough to have achieved PR?
(Do you have any immigration papers or passports from that time that may have stamps or visas in them?)

Eligibility for EEA (PR)
You must normally have lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as
...
a former family member of an EEA national if you’ve retained your right of residence after
the EEA national died or left the UK, or your/their marriage or civil partnership ended in
divorce, annulment or dissolution

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _04-15.pdf

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:41 pm**

Some suggestions that may help:
apply for confirmation of EEA3/4 status
see here:
british-citizenship/naturalization-of-a ... or#p709937

Unfortunately it seems claiming you have access to NHS does not count as having CSI:
http://www.vwv.co.uk/what-s-happening/p ... -a-student

If you or family member/mother) do have (did have) a Netherlands EHIC card it may be enough to prove holding adequate health insurance.

Otherwise, some similar cases to yours:
british-citizenship/treaty-rights-priva ... e#p1157887
- note this person did not have CSI as such either and they did succeed in their application

See also:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1181986
&
british-citizenship/naturalisation-proo ... e#p1183805

Posted: **Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:36 pm**

Suggest you also take advice about whether you can apply for ILR on the 10-year long residence path:
https://www.gov.uk/long-residence/overview
- I can't see anything in the form or guide that shows you cannot apply.

Posted: **Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:39 pm**

This legal case was to determine if having access to NHS qualified as CSI for EEA nationals;
it was supported by the Aire Centre.

Unfortunately the case seems to have failed in UK courts.
See http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 61020.html

However I'd recommend you get in touch with the Aire Centre (who say they offer free legal advice) & see what help they may be able to offer to you:
http://www.airecentre.org/pages/i-am-se ... -know.html

Posted: **Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:05 pm**

More advice for EEA nationals from Aire Centre - see the sections about students & self sufficient persons.
http://www.airecentre.org/data/files/re ... r-2013.pdf

& more about CSI:
http://www.ilpa.org.uk/data/resources/1 ... rance-.pdf

If you are able to get a letter from Netherlands authorities stating you are covered by their health care provision it may help you show you have CSI here in UK.
That may help you make a back-dated claim for PR on the basis of exercising treaty rights either as a student or, possibly, as a self-sufficient person.
To claim as a self-sufficient person you would probably have to show your foster parents were providing for you.

Hanad,
It seems you may have several paths to investigate (back-dating treaty rights/PR claim under EU law, also 10-year LR route under immigration rules ), so really recommend you taking some legal advice now.

Good luck.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:38 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:Hello i'm 18 years old and i have just attempted to apply for my British citizenship. I have lived in the UK since December 2005, so thought it wouldn't be too difficult. Boy was i wrong, after an English test ( apparently 2 GCSE's in English isn't good enough) and a life in the UK test I was turned down for not being medically insured in the past. I was raised in foster care with little contact from family and never heard of this health insurance thing. Anyways now i'm being told to apply in 6 years time. I don't think this is fair and something feels wrong. can someone help? My older brother applied for citizenship several years ago and he didn't seem to have any problems. he didn't even have to take a English test and he doesn't have a GCSE in English! anyways any form of help would be appreciated. thanks

Hi
I am a regulated immigration adviser and I will be willing to help you (free of charge, in your case).
I think if you were in care, your social worker may have screwed it up for you, as you would have had a case for registration while you were under 18, as I think special provisions apply to children in care.
Nonetheless.
Do I understand correctly that you have not actually made an application, you only went to NCS?
Or have you actually paid the application fee and were refused!? In this case it is worth a shot applying for reconsideration.
I need some time to research this but I believe advice you received was incorrect.
I think you will have had right to reside as an EEA child in education, and thus acquired your right to permanent residence.
This is only my first guess and may depend on what your mother was originally doing here and some additional information-- this isn't the sort of case that comes up every day, so I need to look into this in more detail.
NCS would not be able to handle this, as this is a bit above their expertise.
Please PM me your contact details (eg email) and I will try to research this for you.
If you are newly registered you may have to make a few posts to enable yourself to send pm. My contact details can also be deduced from my website in my user profile.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:39 pm**

noajthan wrote:One more suggestion.
it may help you to see what information HO holds about you.

To get hold of this you can request a 'SAR' - it costs just £10 & should be processed inside 40days.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

what SAR?! She is an EU citizen and has never applied for anything so HO holds ZERO information about her whatsoever! This is completely pointless advice tbh.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:42 pm**

noajthan wrote:
Hanadinhio wrote:(1) My Nationality is Dutch, my mother moved here for unknown reasons (shortly afterwards we went into care as she became ill, She has since been transferred back to the Netherlands) I thought i was a permanent Resident but it was confirmed that i'm not.

...

Thanks Hanad
Apologies for personal questions;
How long was your mother in UK?
- was it possibly long enough to have achieved PR?
(Do you have any immigration papers or passports from that time that may have stamps or visas in them?)

Eligibility for EEA (PR)
You must normally have lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as
...
a former family member of an EEA national if you’ve retained your right of residence after
the EEA national died or left the UK, or your/their marriage or civil partnership ended in
divorce, annulment or dissolution
Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _04-15.pdf

more incorrect advice, as EU passports are never stamped with anything!

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:49 pm**

Thanks for the Advice and time Everyone, I'll seek some legal advice. In the mean time i'll apply for a European Health card now and also Apply for a permanent resident card too.
I will also try and contact my mother or my father and see whether they have had European health cards (although this may proof to be difficult.)
I'll try the 10 year option however I haven't officially lived in the UK 10 years until December 2015. so i got a little while to investigate
just one last thing do you guys know anywhere which one could seek free legal advice? any support networks that you guys found useful?

Once again thanks for the help.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:54 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:Thanks for the Advice and time Everyone, I'll seek some legal advice. In the mean time i'll apply for a European Health card now and also Apply for a permanent resident card too.
I will also try and contact my mother or my father and see whether they have had European health cards (although this may proof to be difficult.)
I'll try the 10 year option however I haven't officially lived in the UK 10 years until December 2015. so i got a little while to investigate
just one last thing do you guys know anywhere which one could seek free legal advice? any support networks that you guys found useful?

Once again thanks for the help.

Well, since i am a lawyer and I am already giving you legal advice -- for free -- perhaps you should listen.
If you do not want me to help you, look into having a right to reside as an EU child in education -- I think you will have acquired right to permanent residence based on this. Health insurance is completely irrelevant then.
Being in care also may still play a part.
Most of other advice you received in this thread is incorrect and does not apply to you.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:02 pm**

Hi
I am a regulated immigration adviser and I will be willing to help you (free of charge, in your case).
I think if you were in care, your social worker may have screwed it up for you, as you would have had a case for registration while you were under 18, as I think special provisions apply to children in care.
Nonetheless.
Do I understand correctly that you have not actually made an application, you only went to NCS?
Or have you actually paid the application fee and were refused!? In this case it is worth a shot applying for reconsideration.
I need some time to research this but I believe advice you received was incorrect.
I think you will have had right to reside as an EEA child in education, and thus acquired your right to permanent residence.
This is only my first guess and may depend on what your mother was originally doing here and some additional information-- this isn't the sort of case that comes up every day, so I need to look into this in more detail.
NCS would not be able to handle this, as this is a bit above their expertise.
Please PM me your contact details (eg email) and I will try to research this for you.
If you are newly registered you may have to make a few posts to enable yourself to send pm. My contact details can also be deduced from my website in my user profile.[/quote]

Hello I went to the national citizen service before my application, I was informed i was ineligible then. I've just added you on here, i'll pm you my email address thanks for this it's appreciated.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:14 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:I'll try the 10 year option however I haven't officially lived in the UK 10 years until December 2015. so i got a little while to investigate

The 10 year option also requires proof that you were legally residing in the UK, in your case, under the EEA regulations for the entire period, subject to acceptable absences. If you can show this, then you may as well apply for confirmation of PR, as it's cheaper.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:50 pm**

sagareva wrote:
noajthan wrote:One more suggestion.
it may help you to see what information HO holds about you.

To get hold of this you can request a 'SAR' - it costs just £10 & should be processed inside 40days.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

what SAR?! She is an EU citizen and has never applied for anything so HO holds ZERO information about her whatsoever! This is completely pointless advice tbh.

Easy tiger.

This forum is not an OISC shop & I am not an OISC adviser.
I make no claims to be giving advice as such.
As an 18 year old the poster can make up his own mind on courses of action.

I am making suggestions to assist with information discovery as he may not be fully aware of where to look (in this country).

As for SAR, sometimes it could be as helpful to know what is not held on file about you by HO, just as knowing what is held on file could help in other circumstances.

Establishing facts and then formulating a plan based on facts seems a more rational approach than proceeding on the basis of sweeping assumptions.
He is clearly already short of some critical documentation & facts from his past so filling gaps can only help his case.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:51 pm**

@saregeva I've added you but i cant seem to find your email address, do you know how i can acquire it? thanks

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:54 pm**

sagareva wrote:...

more incorrect advice, as EU passports are never stamped with anything!

This is a suggestion - to look for stamps &/or visas ie in the sense of look for anything that could help

btw - I have travelled to the continent in the past & had my passport stamped.

This is brain-storming going on here (not a legal briefing).

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:55 pm**

noajthan wrote:...

Regarding 6.
The social worker may have contacts that could help you within her organisation (council).

Anyway, wherever you live there should be a local CAB office - some (larger offices) may have a dedicated immigration adviser;
here is their national website:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-a ... mmigration

& here is a list of migrant related support groups:
http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/about/advice-services
again it probably depends where you live for which of these are the best or easiest for you to tap into.

Good luck.

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:57 pm**

Hanadinhio wrote:Thanks for the Advice and time Everyone, I'll seek some legal advice. In the mean time i'll apply for a European Health card now and also Apply for a permanent resident card too.
I will also try and contact my mother or my father and see whether they have had European health cards (although this may proof to be difficult.)
I'll try the 10 year option however I haven't officially lived in the UK 10 years until December 2015. so i got a little while to investigate
just one last thing do you guys know anywhere which one could seek free legal advice? any support networks that you guys found useful?

Once again thanks for the help.

I'd recommend you get in touch with the Aire Centre (who say they offer free legal advice) & see what help they may be able to offer to you:
http://www.airecentre.org/pages/get-advice.html

Posted: **Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:56 pm**

vinny wrote:
Hanadinhio wrote:I'll try the 10 year option however I haven't officially lived in the UK 10 years until December 2015. so i got a little while to investigate
The 10 year option also requires proof that you were legally residing in the UK under the EEA regulations for the entire period, subject to acceptable absences. If you can show this, then you may as well apply for confirmation of PR, as it's cheaper.

Well noted.

This was suggested as I'm aware non-EEA nationals (who obviously can't prove compliance with treaty rights - and don't have to) can & do achieve ILR via this route.

It seemed worth exploring as poster says they cannot prove exercise of treaty rights yet (or at least has been advised by NCS they have not yet begun to exercise treaty rights).

If there is an exclusion that eliminates EEA nationals from this path unless they exercised treaty rights anyway then it clearly is not a viable option.

Still worth putting on the table to review so that no stone is left unturned. That is the beauty and value of the hive mind of this forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:55 am**

sagareva wrote:
noajthan wrote:One more suggestion.
it may help you to see what information HO holds about you.

To get hold of this you can request a 'SAR' - it costs just £10 & should be processed inside 40days.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... mmigration

what SAR?! She is an EU citizen and has never applied for anything so HO holds ZERO information about her whatsoever! This is completely pointless advice tbh.

Ref british-citizenship/incorrect-travel-da ... l#p1219872

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