Immigrationboards.com

I have submitted my family application for citizenship this morning through NCS.
It was rather interesting experience. I was there with my husband as we both were applying at the same time and we carried applications for our two sons. We were separated with my husband just at the beginning and put to separate rooms. I had several questions related to filling in the form for example whether as EU national have to give 10 years work history or whether self-employment counts as an employment and whether I should put it in the employment history but was said that he is not an adiser. The officer even didn't check my AN form carefully. Now I am concern because there were maybe some points that I didn't fill in and did not crossed the point 7.7 at the end about not meeting all statutory requirements.
Then the officer ask me for P60 for last 5 years to prove exercising treaty rights. I said that I do not need these probably as I have Permanent Residence (PR) document ( I am EU national and my husband is non-EU) and prepared my documents based on AN guide and booklet that say I need to provide these only if I don;t have PR. He ask me again whether I have it or not and added he will not discuss with me what is in the guide and booklet because he knows his job. It was made clear to me that I should sit and talk when I am asked. He even didn't look at my PR document -
so how is it with this PR? Once I have it for a year do I still need to prove excising treaty rights when applying for citizenship? It left me rather confused. I thought I need to provide evidence for 5 years residence as indicated in the guide such as letters from employer or from university.
It happened that I had my P60 because just somehow I always like to have additional documents with me in case... and that was the case!

Other striking thing I got to know today is that there is EU route to citizenship - I'm still confused. My husband (non-EU but EU-dependent with PR) was asked whether he wants to apply as an EU-dependent or on his own. We were making family application so decided he goes with family by EU rules. Then he was asked only for his passport, life in the UK and language certificate. They refused to attach his self-assessment as he is self-employed. I am not convinced that is correct and worry the application to be rejected due to insufficient documents.
Do UKVI ask for documents if they are incomplete or they take the decision on the basis of supplied documents?
Does UKVI consider PR at all? Because even if the documents are incomplete but there is PR attached they can check in their files from PR application - is that correct?

Also, could any body clarify whether there is EU-dependent type of citizenship? I never seen anything like this in the guide or booklet and I thought that after getting ILR or PR everybody follows the same process.

If anybody have some knowledge or experience with this please share. Many thanks.

Hi,

It doesntsound right the way things were done at ur ncs appointment.
I cant comment really cos my non eu husband applied on basis of marriage to British Citizen but the way he did things seems a bit wrong.

If theres a lot missing they may reject it and you may lose fee, or they may write to you/your husband asking for more documents.

More senior members will know more though.

Hope it works out for you.

It's a hit and miss.

A couple of months ago when I wanted to apply via NCS I was asked for Treaty Rights documents despite holding a PR document for over a year!

Then I decided to submit an application by myself and kept it as simple as I could at the time. Got approved within six weeks.

Jaeger wrote:It's a hit and miss.

A couple of months ago when I wanted to apply via NCS I was asked for Treaty Rights documents despite holding a PR document for over a year!

Then I decided to submit an application by myself and kept it as simple as I could at the time. Got approved within six weeks.

Thanks Jaeger for sharing your experience. I decided to apply through NCS to keep passports as we will be travelling abroad next month. However, now when I cooled down after the appointment I think I should have reacted strongly and maybe request other officer to take my application. By the end of the day it's my money to be risked.
Which documents exactly did you submit with your application?

Sounds you've been treated pretty rudely at the NCS. They are supposed to help you with your application; not dictate you what to put in, when to speak etc. You don't need them after all.

We, too, applied as a family but it was a much more civilized affair than this.

Gracee wrote:I have submitted my family application for citizenship this morning through NCS.
It was rather interesting experience. I was there with my husband as we both were applying at the same time and we carried applications for our two sons. We were separated with my husband just at the beginning and put to separate rooms. I had several questions related to filling in the form for example whether as EU national have to give 10 years work history or whether self-employment counts as an employment and whether I should put it in the employment history but was said that he is not an adiser. The officer even didn't check my AN form carefully. Now I am concern because there were maybe some points that I didn't fill in and did not crossed the point 7.7 at the end about not meeting all statutory requirements.
Then the officer ask me for P60 for last 5 years to prove exercising treaty rights. I said that I do not need these probably as I have Permanent Residence (PR) document ( I am EU national and my husband is non-EU) and prepared my documents based on AN guide and booklet that say I need to provide these only if I don;t have PR. He ask me again whether I have it or not and added he will not discuss with me what is in the guide and booklet because he knows his job. It was made clear to me that I should sit and talk when I am asked. He even didn't look at my PR document -

Gracee wrote:I have submitted my family application for citizenship this morning through NCS.
It was rather interesting experience. I was there with my husband as we both were applying at the same time and we carried applications for our two sons. We were separated with my husband just at the beginning and put to separate rooms. I had several questions related to filling in the form for example whether as EU national have to give 10 years work history or whether self-employment counts as an employment and whether I should put it in the employment history but was said that he is not an adiser. The officer even didn't check my AN form carefully. Now I am concern because there were maybe some points that I didn't fill in and did not crossed the point 7.7 at the end about not meeting all statutory requirements.
Then the officer ask me for P60 for last 5 years to prove exercising treaty rights. I said that I do not need these probably as I have Permanent Residence (PR) document ( I am EU national and my husband is non-EU) and prepared my documents based on AN guide and booklet that say I need to provide these only if I don;t have PR. He ask me again whether I have it or not and added he will not discuss with me what is in the guide and booklet because he knows his job. It was made clear to me that I should sit and talk when I am asked. He even didn't look at my PR document -
so how is it with this PR? Once I have it for a year do I still need to prove excising treaty rights when applying for citizenship? It left me rather confused. I thought I need to provide evidence for 5 years residence as indicated in the guide such as letters from employer or from university.
It happened that I had my P60 because just somehow I always like to have additional documents with me in case... and that was the case!

Other striking thing I got to know today is that there is EU route to citizenship - I'm still confused. My husband (non-EU but EU-dependent with PR) was asked whether he wants to apply as an EU-dependent or on his own. We were making family application so decided he goes with family by EU rules. Then he was asked only for his passport, life in the UK and language certificate. They refused to attach his self-assessment as he is self-employed. I am not convinced that is correct and worry the application to be rejected due to insufficient documents.
Do UKVI ask for documents if they are incomplete or they take the decision on the basis of supplied documents?
Does UKVI consider PR at all? Because even if the documents are incomplete but there is PR attached they can check in their files from PR application - is that correct?

Also, could any body clarify whether there is EU-dependent type of citizenship? I never seen anything like this in the guide or booklet and I thought that after getting ILR or PR everybody follows the same process.

If anybody have some knowledge or experience with this please share. Many thanks.

You were unfortunate; it sounds a rather unpleasant and officious encounter.
(My family's experience with NCS was far more pleasant; the official was sympathetic as well as very efficient & helpful).

One thing to note is that NCS official is not assessing your application as such.
The bundle will (obviously) go to HO & it is for the caseworker to weigh it up on its merits and to test it against the current rules & regulations.

The HO will surely take into account your PR card & you will have a computer record of your PR (settled status) to support it;
they will also crosscheck with many datasources & your full computer record of tax, immigration & etc.

If you did provide the P60s then that is a bonus & in your favour;
think of it as a kind of extra confirmation of PR as, after all, your 'real' PR may have been acquired over a different 5-year period.

I think by the 2 options for your husband they meant
a) treating your husband as a dependent family member of an EEA national on the basis of your PR (& his residency with you in UK);
- in this case his activities would be immaterial, so no need to back them up with his tax evidence ; what would matter is your status
or
b) alternately, treating his application on its own merits on the basis of his settled status.
- in this route your husband's economic activity would be considered as this time the application would be considered independently of yours & your status.

If any document is missing I believe HO will contact you.
Especially as they will know it has come via NCS so any shortfall is not necessarily due to you.

I believe HO will take into account PR; the key point is you cannot apply to naturalise without settled status (which for EU route means having PR).
A PR card is ofcourse just a confirmation the holder has acquired PR.
And as you noted, the form & guidance are very clear what to provide along with, (or instead of), a PR card.

Do you have a copy of the forms you completed & submitted?
if not suggest you print out another blank form & try to fill in (from memory) what you submitted (while it's still fresh in mind) so that you have a kind of record for future reference.

Best of luck.

Thanks Noajthan for your comments and explanation. That makes sense.
Yes, I have copies of my submitted forms for the future reference. However, I would prefer to be lucky and never go back to them again

I just wanted to ask what did you mean in the sentence below:

"If you did provide the P60s then that is a bonus & in your favour;
think of it as a kind of extra confirmation of PR as, after all, your 'real' PR may have been acquired over a different 5-year period."

My PR has been acquired over a different period of time. I got my PR in Aug 2014 on the basis of exercising treaty right between 2004-2009. I applied for my citizenship just yesterday. To be honest I wasn't sure for which period to fill-in the form. I was advised on this forum to do last 5-6 years as requested in the form.
I have written several emails and letters to UKVI to clarify but never got response.

Do you have knowledge in that sort of applications?
Does it mean I have to prove exercising treaty rights for last 5 years (2010-2015)?

Gracee wrote:Thanks Noajthan for your comments and explanation. That makes sense.
Yes, I have copies of my submitted forms for the future reference. However, I would prefer to be lucky and never go back to them again

I just wanted to ask what did you mean in the sentence below:

"If you did provide the P60s then that is a bonus & in your favour;
think of it as a kind of extra confirmation of PR as, after all, your 'real' PR may have been acquired over a different 5-year period."

My PR has been acquired over a different period of time. I got my PR in Aug 2014 on the basis of exercising treaty right between 2004-2009. I applied for my citizenship just yesterday. To be honest I wasn't sure for which period to fill-in the form. I was advised on this forum to do last 5-6 years as requested in the form.
I have written several emails and letters to UKVI to clarify but never got response.

Do you have knowledge in that sort of applications?
Does it mean I have to prove exercising treaty rights for last 5 years (2010-2015)?

No you didn't have to prove PR in past 5/6 years as, as you stated, you got your settled status back in 2009.
But if NCS insisted on those P60s you probably have demonstrated PR over the more recent period too - a bonus of evidence doubly emphasising there's no doubt you have PR.

Remember it's a generic form that attempts to capture data for many types of different circumstances.
Much better if it simply had a 'do you have PR' question & a 'if so when acquired' question.

In reality, based on the guidance, they will go from your PR card & the computer file that backs it up.