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Good evening,

Not sure if I am on the correct form but here's hoping for some advice.

I obtained my British citizenship by decent after my children were born (first child born in 2001 and second child born 2005) I obtained my citizenship October 2005. I applied for the MN1 under section 3(5) which was refused as it stated both parents had to be in the UK at the time of QP but as stated on the form I am a loan parent and the father to my children does not live in the UK and he is not British and his where abouts are unknown as he lives in SA.

My children do not have ILR and was told to apply under section 3(5).

Please could some one advise.

Thank you

Have you lived in the UK for a minimum period of 3 years and currently in the UK? This is one of the requirements for children to be registered under section 3(5) and clearly stated in the MN1 Guidance notes.

Page 9 of the MN1 Guidance Notes (click)

I am assuming your children's father features on their birth certificate. If so and he is 'whereabouts unknown', you will probably need to show proof of 'soles responsibility'.

We have been living in the UK for almost 10 years and the fathers name is not on their birth certificate.

DawnW80 wrote:I obtained my British citizenship by decent after my children were born

Can you elaborate?

My mother is British by birth so I was able obtain my British citizenship by decent. I only applied for my citizenship by decent after my children were born

By what means did you apply for your citizenship? What year were you born?

I think this refusal is a total disregard to the law and Section 3(6) , which clearly applies to your case.

I think a judicial review pre action protocol must be sent.

If you told them about the circumstance of your case, then in my view, the refusal is so flawed that you should not have to be subjected to filling for NR and paying further fees beyond the one you had incurred.

I was born in South Africa in 1980 and obtained citizenship in 2005,citizenship obtained as my mom is British, my citizenship was granted in SA

So you registered using form UKM correct but only after your children were born?

If so, you were not British by descent when they were born. As I understand the requirement of 3(5) registration, children qualify if they are born to parent(s) who are British by Descent at the time of their birth.

What are your children's current visa/immigration status?

I think the NCS have made me complete the wrong form that's why it's been rejected

CR001 wrote:What are your children's current visa/immigration status?

This information would be helpful as then we can give more accurate advice.

It is important to note that NCS are not immigration advisors. They are only application facilitators (a third party).

When we left SA the children did not need a visa to travel over to the UK, I entered the UK with my British passport and the children entered with their South African passports. They don't have a visa or ILR, current now living in the UK for 10 years. We were advised that we did not have to apply under section 3(1) and to apply under section 3(5)

Section 3(1) requires them to have ILR.

I am aware that pre approved visit visas were not required for SA passport holders before March 2009, but what was stamped in their passports on arrival? If a visit visa for 6 months and they simply stayed, this might complicate things slightly as they don't have legal status in the UK.

I know of a lady who tried to do exactly what you did with her South African daughter (yes I am also South African) and even though the mother had a British passport, the child was refused entry as she did not have a visa. They were put on a plane back to SA and this was also before the visit visa changes in 2009. The mother was told to apply for a child settlement visa (ILE = indefinite leave to enter).

Back in the earlier years, it might have been possible to get the ILE on arrival, hence my question on what was stamped in their passports.

I never looked in their passports as to what was stamped. As soon as I arrived in the UK I started to work and my son started school. The only time I checked their passports was when I applied for their citizenship and had to renew their SA passports. Their passports were stamped with the six month visit, What would you advise me to do?

I have asked one of the other mods to look at your thread and questions. I am also trying to read through some information before I give any advice.

Just one more question, have the schools never asked to see their permission/visa to be in the UK? They are required to check this, as is the NHS, GPs etc. as not all who come to the UK are entitled to free NHS for example.

GP's, schools or HM rev have never asked for their status that's why I never knew different.

I have always stated on any forms completed that my children are South African citizens

CR001 wrote:So you registered using form UKM correct but only after your children were born?

If so, you were not British by descent when they were born. As I understand the requirement of 3(5) registration, children qualify if they are born to parent(s) who are British by Descent at the time of their birth.

What are your children's current visa/immigration status?

British by descent is a status which the OP derived from the day she was born under section 2 (1). The fact that she did not have a passport will not have the effect of depriving her of that status when her children were born.

vinny wrote:

DawnW80 wrote:I obtained my British citizenship by decent after my children were born

Can you elaborate?

It seems the op wanted to say she obtained a passport confirming this status after her children had been born..

It appears section 3 (5) was the correct provision.

Sorry what does OP stand for? Other parent?

OP means original poster, which in this case is you.

I was seeking to clarify the fact that you were a British by descent from the day you were born. The time you applied for a passport was not the day you acquired this status under section 2(1).

In any event it would have been perverse for UKVI to refuse you on that basis, and thankfully they did not.


The fact remain that your application was not a discretionary one under 3 (1), buy a properly made application under section 3 (5).

The refusal was simply wrong, when regards is had to section 3 (6) , which qualifies section 3 (5) (C).

I am currently looking at the MN1 guide and from what I understand section 3(6) biometric enrolment and I can't see a section for 3(5) C? Please advice

DawnW80 wrote:I was born in South Africa in 1980 and obtained citizenship in 2005,citizenship obtained as my mom is British, my citizenship was granted in SA

It appears that you may not have been a British citizen from the day you were born as 2(1) was not in force at that time.

Please advice where would I find the guidelines for 2(1) thank you. Is this the British Nationality Act 1981?

Have you clicked on Vinny's blue link?