Immigrationboards.com

Good evening everybody,
I am writing with a hope to find at least a few answers to the questions that are starting to give me sleepless nights!
Quick facts:
-living in the UK since 2010
-loving it a lot!
-EU national
-Life in the UK test already passed
-PR holder; document issued 11/11/2015

I have a concern with regards to my future citizenship application. Here's my residency/employment history:
-Moved here Sept 2010
-1st job started Oct 2010, lasted till Sep 2012 - that's when I officially resigned. I was employed on a casual basis, Sept 2010 - May 2011 I worked very long hours, 40+ a week. I still kept that contract going till 2012 (mutual agreement with the employer), in case I needed to make some extra money (casual shift). We terminated this employment in Sept 2012, again mutual agreement. I did have WRS covering my employment from day 1.
-2nd job started May 2011, lasted till Aug 2014 - no WRS needed, full time employed. I gained work qualifications through this employer (NVQ and other courses) and showed progress - promotion to the management level. Left job due to redundancy.
-Here is where I claimed JSA for 4 weeks (contribution based)
-3rd job started Sept 2014, lasted till June 2015 - full time. This employment ended due to internal restructure; I didn't accept the new proposed role.
-JSA for 3 weeks (contribution based)
-4th job started July 2015, lasted till Nov 2015 - The role was mis-advertised and the office had no window. I gave up after five months.

I sent my PR application in Oct 2015, while being employed with employer nr 4. When my application was being processed, I called HO and informed them I had quit the job - so they were aware. I also asked, if I could go abroad, as I really needed a break and they said there is nothing stopping me from leaving the country, while my application was being processed. I did not claim any benefits again. I went away for 3 weeks.

11th Nov 2015 my PR card was issued (the blue book). Came home from holidays on 19th Nov 2015 and it was already at my house, with all the documents I supplied.

Here is when difficult part starts.
19th Nov 2015 - 22nd Feb 2016 I was unemployed, but self-sufficient. I didn't register with JSA, as both previous times I managed to find a job quickly and I preferred not to claim any money. The fact is I was mentally exhausted and needed few weeks break. Depression, but I didn't seek medical help. I needed peace and quiet and my home environment gave me that comfort.
22nd Feb 2016 I started my 5th employment, which lasted till 31st of May 2016 - they did not like me and did not extend my probation period. They weren't the nicest people, but the fact is - it put me again in a terrible situation. At this point I already had my holidays booked again (!) and it was too late to cancel.
18th May 2016 - 5th June 2016 - I am on holidays abroad.
6th June - present - I am unemployed, self-sufficient and actively looking for job. I have huge difficulties to find anything, although I really lowered my expectations a lot. I attended an interview for a temp work last week (I hate doing nothing and any income would help) and was refused a job, because I was overqualified (!). I don't want to continue a management career, but struggle to get a less-paid job on the other hand.

My questions are:
1) Where do I stand with treaty rights, if I apply for a citizenship in Oct 2016? I read somewhere, that treaty rights matter up until a person if granted a permanent residency, but I cannot find such confirmation anywhere.
2) Should I apply JSA ASAP or make any other move as a self-sufficient person?
3) Does the fact, that I applied for a PR card and have it already mean they will look at the last 12 months of my stay in the UK only?

I've been a really good resident, up until I started having problems with finding a stable employment. Since my redundancy it was down the hill, each employment being worse than the previous one. I love living here so much, I can't even imagine being denied a citizenship. I would honestly be heartbroken.

When I applied for PR I applied since Oct 2010 - when I started work. Hence why, although I received the document in Nov 2016, I will be applying for citizenship in Oct 2016 - 6 years later. And here is the last 12 months would look like:
Oct 2015 - Full time employed
Nov 2015 - 3 weeks holidays, then unemployed
Dec 2015 - unemployed, catching a breath,self-sufficient
Jan 2016 - unemployed, catching a breath, self-sufficient
Feb 2016 - started full time employment (22nd-28th - one week)
Mar 2016 - full time employed
Apr 2016 - full time employed
May 2016 - full time employed (whole month); left on holidays 18th May
Jun 2016 - return to the UK 5th June, unemployed, self-sufficient, actively looking for work
Jul 2015 - still unemployed, but will take any job at this point, even if that means doing something way below my qualifications.
Aug, Sept, Oct 2016 - positive scenario - an employed and happy woman
Oct 2016 - submitting an application for BC.

Sorry it was so long, but it feels so complex to me. Please, if you made through everything I wrote and have knowledge/experience, that could help me - please share your thoughts. It would be greatly appreciated.
Regards

1) Where do I stand with treaty rights, if I apply for a citizenship in Oct 2016? I read somewhere, that treaty rights matter up until a person if granted a permanent residency, but I cannot find such confirmation anywhere.
2) Should I apply JSA ASAP or make any other move as a self-sufficient person?
3) Does the fact, that I applied for a PR card and have it already mean they will look at the last 12 months of my stay in the UK only?

Take some deep breaths and relax.

1) You have the holy grail of PR status and your Willie Wonka-style 'golden ticket' the DCPR.
No need to exercise treaty rights anymore. Take the rest of the year off.

2) No need. See #1

3) In relation to what? Citizenship?

Read the AN guide on making an application for the privilege of citizenship under section 6(1) of BNA:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e_2016.pdf

Make sure you meet (or can meet) the requirements; assuming you don't have a British spouse they are:

• sound mind;
  good character;
  referees;
  proof of English;
  LITUK;
  physically present in UK 5 years before date of application;
  5 years residence;
  absences within limits (as per rules for naturalisation not the rules for PR);
  free of immigration time restrictions for 12 months;
  oh and the DCPR ofcourse;

Notice that employment or economic activity in general does not figure in the iist.

You are overthinking this and upsetting yourself for no good reason. You have made it - you are practically one of us.

Next steps
Start work on your application in a month or two.
Check the form and guidance thoroughly.
Keep scan/copies of everything you submit. In fact, apply via NCS - that's a very worthwhile final sanity check.
Apply in early November 2016.

Pro tip: Make sure NCS doublecheck your date of acquisition of PR via the HO hotline they have access to.

Good luck.

Oh, thank you noajthan for the speedy repsonse! I really appreciate you taking your time to help me out.

You are overthinking this and upsetting yourself for no good reason. You have made it - you are practically one of us.

You see, this is one of the nicest things I heard lately, thank you. Gaining British citizenship has an actual personal meaning to me, due to a disgusting racially related abuse in the past. I wouldn't want anyone ever again to question my right to call UK my home. I want to make it official.

I do feel relieved now . Thank you for the tips on the next steps, I will make sure I am prepared. I will definitely use NCS.

Have a good evening!

Monty700 wrote:Oh, thank you noajthan for the speedy repsonse! I really appreciate you taking your time to help me out.

You are overthinking this and upsetting yourself for no good reason. You have made it - you are practically one of us.

You see, this is one of the nicest things I heard lately, thank you. Gaining British citizenship has an actual personal meaning to me, due to a disgusting racially related abuse in the past. I wouldn't want anyone ever again to question my right to call UK my home. I want to make it official.

I do feel relieved now . Thank you for the tips on the next steps, I will make sure I am prepared. I will definitely use NCS.

Have a good evening!

Take it step by step, don't take it for granted - don't give HO the Spam of wriggle room and you will be fine.

Best of British luck.

Thank you, I will make sure I do everything, to submit a very strong application.

I prepared very well for my PR application, had all the contracts of employment, all P45s or letters confirming my past/current employment, all P60s, letter from my bank confirming when I opened the account, electoral register.
I keep the exact records of my absences (17 so far), since the day I moved to the UK. I made a decision I wanted to become a citizen after about two years of living here. That's when I tracked back all my absences (THAT was a proper headache!) and made sure I updated my notes after each trip.

Thanks again, I will try to get in touch Sept/Oct time. All the best x

Good morning,
I have got an update on my case, time slots and general plan. Few more questions and concerns as well.

Here is what I already have:
-PR status; document was issued on 11/11/2015 + letter from Home Office.
-Life in the UK Certificate, May 2016.
-Absences all recorded and within limits

Still to complete:
-2 referees; shouldn't be an issue
-IELTS Life Skills B1; booked on 24/09/2016 at one of approved test centres. My actual level is C1/C2 academic, but as it was more expensive to pass it on such level, I decided to go for the cheaper option (I hope it wasn't a stupid move...).
-AN application, guide to print out and fill in; planning to do it within next 2 weeks or so.

I called Home Office nationality helpline and the woman I spoke to almost gave me a heart attack.
I wanted to confirm, that my unemployment during last year (after being granted PR status) was not going to be an issue, but she still claims that I should have had CSI (comprehensive sickness insurance), as otherwise, as an EEA national I wasn't exercising treaty rights, even though I already had PR (?).

My last year looks as following:
Oct 15 - F/T employed
Nov 15 - Employment ended on 5/11, while I was on holidays (3 weeks). 11/11 my PR was issued. I returned to the UK 19/11 as an unemployed person.
Dec 15 - unemployed, self-sufficient, no CSI
Jan 16 - unemployed, self-sufficient, no CSI
Feb 16 - started full time employment (22nd-28th - one week that month)
GAP ONE in my employment - 3 months + 3 weeks approx.
Mar 16 - F/T employed
Apr 16 - F/T employed
May 16 - F/T employed (whole month); left on holidays 18/05
Jun 16 - I returned to the UK 5/06, unemployed, self-sufficient, no CSI was actively looking for work
Jul 16 - unemployed, self-sufficient, no CSI was actively looking for work
Aug 16 - unemployed until 22/08, when I started working full-time but through the working agency.
GAP TWO in my employment - 2 months + 3 weeks approx.
Sept 16 - full-time work, but through the working agency; ongoing.
Oct 16 - full-time work, but through the working agency; ongoing. (hopefully nothing will change)
Now 16 - Appointment booked with NCS on 14/11/2016. I checked - I was physically in the UK on 14/11/2011 and full time employed at the time.

I read through the booklet about what qualifies us for BC and there was this chapter regarding being of a good character (point 9) and it states:
To be of good character you should have shown respect for the rights and freedoms of the United Kingdom, observed its laws and fulfilled your duties and obligations as a resident of the United Kingdom. Checks will be carried out to ensure that the information you give is correct.
So, technically, for that last year, when I was already a British resident, someone could question whether or not I am a good character. (not respecting treaty rights, according to HO representative on the phone)

Even to me, my last year's activity looks dodgy. But I swear to everything I love, I was just the worst year of my life, so far. And things just happened to be that way. My 1st unemployment gap was needed for me to keep my sanity. I didn't take medication either, so it's tough to prove. I exercised a lot during that period. I didn't want to register with JSA, as those weekly visits would stress me even more. Second gap I was actively seeking work and have e-mails to prove that, but I couldn't find anything. I didn't see it coming in my worst nightmares, that it would take me so long to find work again, hence why no JSA for the second time.

My questions:
1. Is there any document on gov.uk, which states that as an EEA national I do (not) have to exercise treaty rights after PR is granted?
2. Can I sort out CSI now, pay for whatever periods of time I was unemployed? (for peace of mind I would totally do it; I wish I knew how important that was!)
3. What is the best way of proving I was physically in the country during my gaps of unemployment? I received two e-mails confirming my gym activity, showing I was there few times a week and can easily get bank statements sent to me - anything else?
4. My PR application had plenty of documents included - contracts of employment, p60s, p45s, letter from employer - do I re-send those documents for past 5 (2011-current) or 6 years now (2010-current)?

I honestly cannot wait until all this is over. The amount of mixed information HO gives me makes it more difficult, than it should be. Sometimes I am being told to send minimum documents require, sometimes to almost send proof of my entire existence here.
I therefore appreciate the amount of help and advice people offer on this forum.

Anyone with any comments regarding my case, please share your thoughts and wisdom .
Regards,
M.

Rule number 1: Do. Not. Listen. To. The. Home. Office. Helpline.

Noetic wrote:Rule number 1: Do. Not. Listen. To. The. Home. Office. Helpline.

+1

1) PR status is a form of settled status.
No more need to exercise treaty rights at all.

EEA Regs (which transpose Directive 2004/38/EC into UK law) make no mention of any ongoing need to exercise treaty rights for those with holy grail of PR - because there is no need:
http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Latest/ByPage/part2_15

Read the AN guidance. There is no mention of an ongoing/continuing need to exercise treaty rights either for a section 6(1) or a 6(2) application.

To achieve the privilege of citizenship does not have to involve any economic activity at all.
Relax.

2) No need. Save your money.

3) Check AN guidance, its clear and comprehensive.

4) No need.
Although some may help with proof of residency. See #3

Thank you for clarifying this for me. As soon as I get my printer sorted, I will start completing the form and study thoroughly all guidelines.
Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated!

Good luck.

Good morning everybody,
As I have only 5 weeks till my NCS appointment is due, I have already started working on my application and completing necessary documents.
I read through the guide and booklet, hence why it all seems much simpler now, however, I do have a few questions to those, who have completed the form and are familiar with the process.

Questions below are in regards to the Application Form.
1. 1 - I left it blank; is this correct?
1. 3 - I believe this needs to be completed during my NCS appointment, after the agent make a phone call to the HO, am I right?
1. 15 / 1. 17 - Addresses. I moved quite a lot and I am perfectly capable of providing the history of my addresses for 5 years back, but how accurate these dates need to be? I have experian account and can match it, but sometimes I kept my bank account at one address and my phone bill on another. Do they compare it with my bank registered addresses?
1. 22 - Life in The UK, which one is the test number? Is it the 'Test Instance ID'?
- IELTS, which one is the SELT unique electronic reference number? Is it the 'UKVI Number' or 'Test Report Form Number'?
1. 45 - Occupation. I am full time employed, but through the agency. Is it enough, if I state 'full time employed', or do I nee to be specific?
1. 47 - Name of employer or business. Do I put my agency's name or the company I do work for? It is a highly respected and recognised company in the UK.
1. 49 - Where can I find the 'address of tax office or tax office reference'?
1.50 - Employment history. I have lived here since 2010, had WRS and worked nearly all that time. However, I visited UK in 2007 and received my NIN then, but I only worked for 5 weeks, before I turned 18 and never had any WRS covering that. I didn't include that job on my PR application (90% sure, but now it got me wondering), as I only focused on the period of time, since I moved here permanently in 2010.
2. 4 - Which one is my PR card number? There is a number that starts with an 'e', followed by seven numbers - E 1234567. Is it the one?
3. 2 - I received 1 parking ticket - in which section exactly does this information go?

Referees:
1. Professional - I have a choice of two: either a Malaysian GP, or Polish paralegal - both with a crystal clear past.
2. British Naturalised Citizen - a friend whom I've known for 6 years. He was naturalised 2/3 years ago.

Supporting Documents:
-current passport
-old passport (the one I entered the UK with)
-national ID card (I used it to cross borders as well)
-PR Card + letter from HO
-LITUK letter
-IELTS certificate
-P60 for 2010-2016
-documents confirming each employment (either a letter or a contract and P45)
-documents confirming my JSA (2 episodes in 2014, 2 and 3 weeks long)
-bank statements for the period of time, when I wasn't working in 2015/2016
-e-mail from my fitness club confirming my activity in the months of unemployment in 2015/2016, to prove I was physically in the UK
-few emails confirming I was attending interviews
-letter from my job agency to confirm my employment
-letter from the actual company I work for, to support my application

Anything else? No section was clear enough in regards to the proofs of residence, especially during my unemployment, hence why I came up with bank statements and letter from the only people, that can confirm I was physically present there nearly every day.

Please share your thoughts, any advise and comment is greatly appreciated.
Have a nice day,
M.

Fee payment form.

Good morning,
My big day is nearly here!

Going to NCS next week, took my passport pictures today, visited my 1st referee and will pick up a letter confirming my employment later today. 2nd referee to sign my form on Saturday and I am ready!

Can you please, noajthan, or other lovely people guide me in regards to this 1 concern that I couln't find the answer to:'
1.50 - Employment history. I have lived here since 2010, had WRS and worked nearly all that time. However, I visited UK in 2007 and received my NIN then, but I only worked for 5 weeks, before I turned 18 and never had any WRS covering that. I didn't include that job on my PR application (90% sure, but now it got me wondering), as I only focused on the period of time, since I moved here permanently in 2010.
Question: what do I do now?! I think on my PR application they only asked about 5 years qualifying period (2010-2015), but on my AN they ask for 'employment history in UK during past 10 years, or since date of entry if you have been here less than 10 years.'
I am sort of both - I do have an employment history in 2007 (few weeks), but I have moved and settled here in 2010.
I don't know what to do, I have no documents covering that period of time [work was legal (was paying taxes, which I then claimed back, as it was summer job only], but I doubt I had WRS - which technically makes it illegal].
Should I include this information and attach a letter explaining or should I try to contact the employer and provide me with any sort of document?

Monty700 wrote:Good morning,
My big day is nearly here!

Going to NCS next week, took my passport pictures today, visited my 1st referee and will pick up a letter confirming my employment later today. 2nd referee to sign my form on Saturday and I am ready!

Can you please, noajthan, or other lovely people guide me in regards to this 1 concern that I couln't find the answer to:'
1.50 - Employment history. I have lived here since 2010, had WRS and worked nearly all that time. However, I visited UK in 2007 and received my NIN then, but I only worked for 5 weeks, before I turned 18 and never had any WRS covering that. I didn't include that job on my PR application (90% sure, but now it got me wondering), as I only focused on the period of time, since I moved here permanently in 2010.
Question: what do I do now?! I think on my PR application they only asked about 5 years qualifying period (2010-2015), but on my AN they ask for 'employment history in UK during past 10 years, or since date of entry if you have been here less than 10 years.'
I am sort of both - I do have an employment history in 2007 (few weeks), but I have moved and settled here in 2010.
I don't know what to do, I have no documents covering that period of time [work was legal (was paying taxes, which I then claimed back, as it was summer job only], but I doubt I had WRS - which technically makes it illegal].
Should I include this information and attach a letter explaining or should I try to contact the employer and provide me with any sort of document?

You are not applying for a 'visa' nor re-applying for confirmation of PR.

Just itemise the periods of employment since you came to UK.
You don't need proof of employment as such. You don't need to submit proof of WRS (or CSI or etc etc).
You do need evidence you were paying tax/NI (if appropriate). So P60s, letter of employment would be appropriate.

If you had a short summer job and paid no tax and can't really remember the dates then suggest say so in a cogent cover letter.
Caseworker will follow up if she wishes to and ofcourse can always harness the full resources of the state to crosscheck with HMRC and etc anyway.

Good luck.

Good morning.
I've submitted my application and surprisingly - was only asked to send copies of passports, PR card, P60s, LITUK, English certificate and letter from current employer.

I put all the information regarding my employment, as they only wanted to know when/where - no proofs were required.
As a date of entry I was asked to put 2010, not 2007 (we phoned HO), as they were only interested in 6 years qualifying period.

Thank you very much for your help, I really appreciate the time you invested.
Have a beautiful day.

Good morning. I am writing to happily announce, that I can officially call myself British now . Thank you noajthan for all your help and patience.

Just to quickly summarise: I used NCS and I don't regret it. They took a letter from my current employer, P60s, language and LITUK certificates, passport and PR card. The process altogether was very smooth and in my opinion quick. HO approved my application with no questions asked. Applying through NCS not only let me keep my original documents, but also allowed me to apply for my passport at the same time - which arrived 5 days after the ceremony.
Thank you again and all the best .

Congrats on your success! Clearly it meant a lot to you and not just a random piece of formality paper following Brexit (as I know it does to quite a few EU nationals I know with dual citizenship).

Take a moment to spare a thought for all those unlucky non-EU people who would have loved to be able to come to or continue staying here if not for all the work/settlement visa hurdles which you as an EU citizen were lucky to not have worry about haha...