Page 1 of 1
12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:21 pm
by tier2genmisery
Hi
I know it is a stupid question but I have seen a variety of responses to this in the forum and now I'm in doubt.
I got my ILR on 1 Aug 17
Is the earliest day I can apply for naturalisation online 1 Aug 18 or 2 Aug 18 ?
I wasn't in the UK from 2 Aug 13 for a long period so I can't apply if the right answer is 2 Aug 18.
Thanks
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:55 pm
by epi
You should be able to apply on July 31. I'm in similar situation, but decided not to risk it, fortunately was away just for a week.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:56 pm
by tier2genmisery
epi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:55 pm
You should be able to apply on July 31. I'm in similar situation, but decided not to risk it, fortunately was away just for a week.
31st Jul ? that's 364 days?!
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:40 pm
by epi
No, it is 365. If 1st Aug 2017 is the first day, then 1 Aug 2018 would be 365+1. But as I said, personally I decided not to risk it.
Read here, p 14
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0EXT.pdf
"Legally in the UK at the start of the qualifying period.
To identify the start of the qualifying period you use the day after the application date minus the length of the qualifying period. For example in an application under section 6(1) made on 1 March 2016, the applicant must have been legally in the UK on 2 March 2011."
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:18 am
by tier2genmisery
epi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:40 pm
No, it is 365. If 1st Aug 2017 is the first day, then 1 Aug 2018 would be 365+1. But as I said, personally I decided not to risk it.
Read here, p 14
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0EXT.pdf
"Legally in the UK at the start of the qualifying period.
To identify the start of the qualifying period you use the day after the application date minus the length of the qualifying period. For example in an application under section 6(1) made on 1 March 2016, the applicant must have been legally in the UK on 2 March 2011."
so that means if I apply on 1st Aug, I must have been physically present in the UK on 2 Aug 13.
And I have actually left the UK midday on 2 Aug 13.. so is that fine?
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:09 am
by epi
This is the risk in my opinion. When we calculate absences we do not include days of departure and arrival, this makes me think that HO sees such days as "present in the country". But I would not do such an application without a good lawyer's advice.
In my case ILR granted 16.08, in theory I can apply on 15.08, but 5 years ago I travelled on 16.08
Decided to wait until the day when I clearly was in the country on the day, the day before and after.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:17 am
by tier2genmisery
epi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:09 am
This is the risk in my opinion. When we calculate absences we do not include days of departure and arrival, this makes me think that HO sees such days as "present in the country". But I would not do such an application without a good lawyer's advice.
In my case ILR granted 16.08, in theory I can apply on 15.08, but 5 years ago I travelled on 16.08
Decided to wait until the day when I clearly was in the country on the day, the day before and after.
So the summary is
If I apply on 31st Jul 18
I'm not sure if I am eligible yet (completed my 12 months on ILR yet) because I got my ILR on 1st Aug 17
If I apply on 1st Aug 18
Again I'm not sure because I left the UK midday on 2 Aug 13 for a 3-4 week break..
If I apply late August, then I'm probably not getting my passport in time for the Christmas holiday and other personal implications.. dependants etc. And unlike the other two options, this I'm pretty sure about.
What do I do ?? 31st Jul or 1st Aug??
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:10 am
by epi
There is more... if you go through the Booklet AN on p5 you can read:
"For example, if your application is received on 05/01/2018 you should have been physically present in the UK on 05/01/2013." - with contradicts explanation in the guidance for HO staff I gave you earlier.
Re 31 or 1 I can only say that I did my ILR with a lawyer and when it was granted I received a summary and preliminary advice for the next steps. In the letter they clearly said that the earliest I can apply for BC is 15.08 - the day before ILR granted, I have no reason not to trust them with that. But I do not know how to support that in my application and clearly do not want to go through vague reconsideration process.
If I were you and time matters that much, I would take a professional advice. But myself... I'm planning to apply on 29.08, no lawyers this time. At the moment the whole thing takes 2-2.5 months judging from the current timelines, plenty of time before Christmas. Just make your application right and straightforward.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:12 am
by secret.simon
tier2genmisery wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:17 am
other personal implications.. dependants etc
Do give more details. There is not much of a difference between the requirements for dependents of British citizens and dependents of non-British citizens with ILR.
You are not eligible on 31st July. Your best bet does seem to be late August.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:35 am
by tier2genmisery
epi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:10 am
There is more... if you go through the Booklet AN on p5 you can read:
"For example, if your application is received on 05/01/2018 you should have been physically present in the UK on 05/01/2013." - with contradicts explanation in the guidance for HO staff I gave you earlier.
Re 31 or 1 I can only say that I did my ILR with a lawyer and when it was granted I received a summary and preliminary advice for the next steps. In the letter they clearly said that the earliest I can apply for BC is 15.08 - the day before ILR granted, I have no reason not to trust them with that. But I do not know how to support that in my application and clearly do not want to go through vague reconsideration process.
If I were you and time matters that much, I would take a professional advice. But myself... I'm planning to apply on 29.08, no lawyers this time. At the moment the whole thing takes 2-2.5 months judging from the current timelines, plenty of time before Christmas. Just make your application right and straightforward.
Getting a passport in just 2.5 months? I think it is more like 4-5 months no?
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:43 am
by tier2genmisery
secret.simon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:12 am
tier2genmisery wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:17 am
other personal implications.. dependants etc
Do give more details. There is not much of a difference between the requirements for dependents of British citizens and dependents of non-British citizens with ILR.
You are not eligible on 31st July. Your best bet does seem to be late August.
I think they count the day of the application as part of the 12 months on ILR so I think I should be able to apply on 31st Jul.
Any counter arguments?
page 13 on
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0EXT.pdf
not, at any other time in the 12 month period ending with date of application, subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on their period of stay in the UK
They use the same language for the other requirement
in the UK at the beginning of the period of 5 years ending with the date of the application
And the way they calculate that is (page 14)
To identify the start of the qualifying period
you use the day after the application date
minus the length of the qualifying period. For example in an application under section
6(1) made on 1 March 2016, the applicant must have been legally in the UK on 2
March 2011.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am
by CR001
tier2genmisery wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:35 am
epi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:10 am
There is more... if you go through the Booklet AN on p5 you can read:
"For example, if your application is received on 05/01/2018 you should have been physically present in the UK on 05/01/2013." - with contradicts explanation in the guidance for HO staff I gave you earlier.
Re 31 or 1 I can only say that I did my ILR with a lawyer and when it was granted I received a summary and preliminary advice for the next steps. In the letter they clearly said that the earliest I can apply for BC is 15.08 - the day before ILR granted, I have no reason not to trust them with that. But I do not know how to support that in my application and clearly do not want to go through vague reconsideration process.
If I were you and time matters that much, I would take a professional advice. But myself... I'm planning to apply on 29.08, no lawyers this time. At the moment the whole thing takes 2-2.5 months judging from the current timelines, plenty of time before Christmas. Just make your application right and straightforward.
Getting a passport in just 2.5 months? I think it is more like 4-5 months no?
Some get approval and passport within 6-12 weeks, others wait longer.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:06 pm
by epi
tier2genmisery wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:35 am
Getting a passport in just 2.5 months? I think it is more like 4-5 months no?
Check the timeline thread, plenty of people get their approval in 2 months now, add another month for ceremony and passport. I think that a clear application, when a HO officer has no doubts, comes out sooner than the one that contains something uncertain. They start referring it to colleagues, think what to do and this takes ages. So, if you apply late August, you probably would not lose anything time wise.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:28 pm
by tier2genmisery
I have spent the last two days asking legal advisors and HO helpline..
I am still getting different answers...
Got my ILR on 1 Aug 17 and will have to apply for citizenship on 31 Jul 18 by the looks of it..
without knowing whether that is fine or not..
Any further advice on this would be much appreciated
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:37 pm
by tier2genmisery
Relevant part of the nationatilty act
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/schedule/1
Unfortunately this is still not very clear - I don't know how the "so ending" below should be interpreted
(c)that he was not at any time in the period of twelve months so ending subject under the immigration laws to any restriction on the period for which he might remain in the United Kingdom; and
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:03 pm
by secret.simon
Look at it this way. You are cutting it very fine, no matter how you read the interpretations. The simple question is; can you afford to lose the naturalisation fee?
If you were ineligible, either because of being absent from the UK five years ago, or because of not having had ILR for a complete year, the Home Office keeps the fee and you have to reapply again with a fresh fee. Can you afford to do so? If you can, apply on 1st August. If you can't, wait until the end of August.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:26 pm
by tier2genmisery
secret.simon wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:03 pm
Look at it this way. You are cutting it very fine, no matter how you read the interpretations. The simple question is; can you afford to lose the naturalisation fee?
If you were ineligible, either because of being absent from the UK five years ago, or because of not having had ILR for a complete year, the Home Office keeps the fee and you have to reapply again with a fresh fee. Can you afford to do so? If you can, apply on 1st August. If you can't, wait until the end of August.
If you apply too early but within 20 days then you can re-declare your application and you don't lose the application. So that's not my problem. What I can't afford is not having my passport by early december..
So I desperately need to know whether I should apply on 31st Jul or 1st Aug...
Late August is not a safe option for me.
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:38 pm
by tier2genmisery
really strange that nobody, not even oisc level 3 advisors, know whether the day of the application counts as part of the 12 months on ILR or not with 100% certainty... and home office is comfortable with conflicting information on two of their guidance documents
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:46 pm
by tier2genmisery
Apparently this is my thread and I can only post here no matter how irrelevant my question is with the subject - So here is my new question
Is American Express accepted for the online BC application payment? or does it have to be a mastercard or visa?
Thanks
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:54 pm
by CR001
tier2genmisery wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:46 pm
Apparently this is my thread and I can only post here no matter how irrelevant my question is with the subject - So here is my new question
Is American Express accepted for the online BC application payment? or does it have to be a mastercard or visa?
Thanks
The paper payment sheet does not list Amex.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -04-18.pdf
Re: 12 months on ILR before BC application rule
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:25 pm
by tier2genmisery
CR001 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:54 pm
tier2genmisery wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:46 pm
Apparently this is my thread and I can only post here no matter how irrelevant my question is with the subject - So here is my new question
Is American Express accepted for the online BC application payment? or does it have to be a mastercard or visa?
Thanks
The paper payment sheet does not list Amex.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -04-18.pdf
For future reference
Yes you can pay with Amex when you apply online.
You can also pay for your NDRS appointment(depending on the council probably) and Biometric enrolment with Amex.
The only one you can't pay with Amex is the £85 for the passport but that's alright..
Since these visa applications are all pretty costly, it makes sense to pay with card which reward you for it. I got £100 bonus which isn't bad at all.