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HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:08 pm
by HarryJones
Dear Guru,
I am just curious as many of you reading many of the posts on this forum.
Is there any reason why HO still asks/allows some people(in their refusal letters) to go for new application when they have already given them "deception" in the current application and HO probably also knows that they will surely refuse the new application.
I am sincerely confused.
I hope to hear from people who like to contribute intelligently.
Many thanks
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:21 pm
by zimba
'Submitting a valid application' is not the same as a 'valid application being refused'.
Your application can be accepted as valid even after a 'deception' refusal, however such application will most likely fall under the general grounds for refusal.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:26 pm
by HarryJones
I never mentioned "valid" application in my question.
I actually want to understand the rationale for asking people with deception to apply for new application.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:00 pm
by sam2017
Hi
When you say "Deception" ! can you explain what Clause? and does that clause means Rejection or may be rejection?
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:04 pm
by HarryJones
I am referring to applications that are refused as a result of deception.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:35 am
by HarryJones
Hi Guys,
I really want a sincere answer if anyone can help.
My understanding is this:
if HO says someone has deception which probably means that the person is not fit to settle in the UK, why would they ask such a person to proceed for a new application within 14 days.
Many thanks
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:45 am
by CR001
Again, another hypothetical question and guessing game on why HO does certain things.
A person could have an established private life, British children, lived here for a long time for example. HO gives them the opportunity to apply if they meet any other category, within or outside the rules.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:19 am
by vinny
Note that they give no assurances that a new application may succeed.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:39 am
by HarryJones
CR001 wrote:Again, another hypothetical question and guessing game on why HO does certain things.
A person could have an established private life, British children, lived here for a long time for example. HO gives them the opportunity to apply if they meet any other category, within or outside the rules.
I am not on a guessing game here- I am very sincere.
Does HO allow people with deception to remain in the country if they have for example "established private life, British children, lived here for a long time" ?
Many thanks for your response
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:15 am
by CR001
It depends on individual circumstances, which can be wide ranging.
What is the purpose of your question?
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:18 am
by CR001
Are your questions in this topic related to your previous topic asking similar questions?
indefinite-leave-to-remain/tier-1-tier- ... l#p1494270
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:27 am
by HarryJones
Not quite related.
CR001 wrote:It depends on individual circumstances, which can be wide ranging.
What is the purpose of your question?
On the purpose of my question, i am just curious to know if the HO just want to drain the pockets of people. It doesn't make sense if the HO knows that it is going to be an outright refusal and still wants the person to spend thousands of pounds to apply. I think that will amount to fraud.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:09 pm
by HarryJones
CR001 wrote:Again, another hypothetical question and guessing game on why HO does certain things.
A person could have an established private life, British children, lived here for a long time for example. HO gives them the opportunity to apply if they meet any other category, within or outside the rules.
Just to be clear:
Can someone with deception refusal be allowed to remain in the country if they have for example "established private life, British children, lived here for a long time" ?
Please someone should kindly assist to answer this question.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:44 pm
by O_Relly
HarryJones wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:27 am
Not quite related.
CR001 wrote:It depends on individual circumstances, which can be wide ranging.
What is the purpose of your question?
On the purpose of my question, i am just curious to know if the HO just want to drain the pockets of people. It doesn't make sense if the HO knows that it is going to be an outright refusal and still wants the person to spend thousands of pounds to apply. I think that will amount to fraud.
That is an interesting point.
When an application is refused on the basis of deception, am expecting their refusal letter will state the reason for refusal and also it most-likely may have a recommendation that making a new application will also result in refusal.
Now if the applicant still goes ahead and make a new application under another category, it is NOT the home office's duty to do background checks at the time of accepting applications. That is just practically NOT possible.
The onus lies on the applicant.
I am aware this post is 2 months old, but still making the comment for the record and further comment and discussion.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:30 pm
by CMOSUK
O_Relly wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:44 pm
HarryJones wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:27 am
Not quite related.
CR001 wrote:It depends on individual circumstances, which can be wide ranging.
What is the purpose of your question?
On the purpose of my question, i am just curious to know if the HO just want to drain the pockets of people. It doesn't make sense if the HO knows that it is going to be an outright refusal and still wants the person to spend thousands of pounds to apply. I think that will amount to fraud.
That is an interesting point.
When an application is refused on the basis of deception, am expecting their refusal letter will state the reason for refusal and also it most-likely may have a recommendation that making a new application will also result in refusal.
Now if the applicant still goes ahead and make a new application under another category, it is NOT the home office's duty to do background checks at the time of accepting applications. That is just practically NOT possible.
The onus lies on the applicant.
I am aware this post is 2 months old, but still making the comment for the record and further comment and discussion.
Circumstances do change, if the applicant is submitting a new application and is using the same evidence for a previously refused application and the circumstances are the same. The probability is most likely a refusal again as UKVI may not see it warrants a grant based on the same circumstances that may have leaf to a refusal for what ever reason legally.
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:25 pm
by Kashif_Hussain
if someone was overstayed but later on granted 2x 3-Year DL on the basis of FP, will he/she be able to apply for ILR after 6 years and when will he/she be able to apply for nationality?
That's not deception right?
Re: HO allows new application after deception
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:28 pm
by CR001
Kashif_Hussain wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:25 pm
if someone was overstayed but later on granted 2x 3-Year DL on the basis of FP, will he/she be able to apply for ILR after 6 years and when will he/she be able to apply for nationality?
That's not deception right?
No that is not deception and it would likely only affect citizenship good character requirement due to overstay period and not affect ILR.