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Hello everyone,

I am wondering if I am able to get some pointers and thoughts/advice please

A brief summary before my query :

arrived on student : Oct 2007 - Oct 2010

Renewed on student : Oct 2010 - Oct 2013

Renewed student : Oct 2013 - Oct 2014

FLR lodged on Oct 2014

Since then FLR has been refused with appeal rights, then appealed gone to FTT, then to UTT and now currently on COA - awaiting a response.

There is no period stayed out of country, all documents are with the HO (including PP - currently expired) : my 10 years is completed.

LIUK T done
and I qualify for the 10 year LR route - what are my options?

is there is a risk in going for premium without my originals? and also expired PP?

any advice and recommendations?

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:32 am

FLR has been refused with appeal rights, then appealed gone to FTT, then to UTT and now currently on COA

In this context, does COA mean "Court of Appeal"?

Was the FLR filed before or after the date of expiry of the student visa?

Give the dates for the expiry of the student visa, the application for FLR (also what kind of FLR), and the dates that the FTT and the UTT refused your appeals.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:56 am

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:32 am

FLR has been refused with appeal rights, then appealed gone to FTT, then to UTT and now currently on COA

In this context, does COA mean "Court of Appeal"?

Was the FLR filed before or after the date of expiry of the student visa?

Give the dates for the expiry of the student visa, the application for FLR (also what kind of FLR), and the dates that the FTT and the UTT refused your appeals.

hello, many thanks for your response


Yes COA = court of appeal

FLR was filed before the expiry of student visa.

Student from Oct 2007 - Oct 2014

FLR private life = sent on Oct 2014

Since 2014 Oct to now has been from tribunals to COA

This was refused, appealed in time, then FT refused, then permission to UT granted, which was refused, then the permission to COA refused from UT, then directly applied to COA, now waiting till COA gets back to me

I am in the 28 day period as of now.

All my docs are with HO.

Should i submit further grounds to be considered when appeal is going to be heard or should i take photocopies and book premium service?
As its not in tribunal but COA = can HO refuse and i will lose fees?

what are the disadvantages of going premium?

My PP is with HO and is expired while they held it, I have never overstayed and have all appeals submitted in time.

Thoughts please> and advice?

What was the basis of the FLR application?

Wanderer wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:37 pm

What was the basis of the FLR application?

FLR FP which is private life?

That was the basis.

You can't apply for ILR(LR). Section 3c leave extends while the case is before the FTT and UTT, but then ceases when the UTT either declines or rejects the appeal.

So, since the end of the appeal, there is no leave and therefore your ILR(LR) application must fail.

Wanderer wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:37 pm

What was the basis of the FLR application?

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:43 pm

FLR FP which is private life? That was the basis.

I think what Wanderer meant to ask was "what is the basis of your private life application"?

Private life application typically involves being in a relationship with a British citizen, either as a partner or as a parent of a British citizen. Having spent a few years in the UK does not give one a basis for FLR(FP).

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:34 pm

You can't apply for ILR(LR). Section 3c leave extends while the case is before the FTT and UTT, but then ceases when the UTT either declines or rejects the appeal.

So, since the end of the appeal, there is no leave and therefore your ILR(LR) application must fail.

Wanderer wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:37 pm

What was the basis of the FLR application?

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:43 pm

FLR FP which is private life? That was the basis.

I think what Wanderer meant to ask was "what is the basis of your private life application"?

Private life application typically involves being in a relationship with a British citizen, either as a partner or as a parent of a British citizen. Having spent a few years in the UK does not give one a basis for FLR(FP).

Really? Is there a law which states that please?

Does it state, the time spent in the UK while appeal is meant to be heard, from tribunals etc not carry and count to period of legal stay?

clarify?

So if I understand this correctly, the time spent on FTT and UTT is the only legal time I have spent, and when it was refused, I appealed to the COA directly, within time?
Does that not count to anything in contributing to the 10 year legal stay period?

Yes, Private Life is the relationship with my partner who is a british citizen, we have been together for nearly 6 years now.

Thanks for the clarification for the FLR FP basis.

So where do I stand then on legal grounds and terms?

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:26 pm

So if I understand this correctly, the time spent on FTT and UTT is the only legal time I have spent, and when it was refused, I appealed to the COA directly, within time?
Does that not count to anything in contributing to the 10 year legal stay period?

As I understand it, no, the time spent in front of the CoA does not count towards Section 3C (or any other form of) leave.

Page 13 of the Home Office 3C leave guidance wrote: Judicial review of the Upper Tribunal - “Cart” JRs
Where there is a JR against the Upper Tribunal’s refusal to grant permission to appeal, the person will not have section 3C leave while the JR is brought, or if it is successful, even if the outcome means that an appeal to the Upper Tribunal proceeds.

Also worth reading: Judicial review of Upper Tribunal

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:26 pm

So where do I stand then on legal grounds and terms?

My understanding of the situation is that at this point in time (and since the UTT refused your appeal), your presence in the UK is illegal.

As an aside, I hope that you are not paying a solicitor for what is obviously bad advice.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:45 pm

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:26 pm

So if I understand this correctly, the time spent on FTT and UTT is the only legal time I have spent, and when it was refused, I appealed to the COA directly, within time?
Does that not count to anything in contributing to the 10 year legal stay period?

As I understand it, no, the time spent in front of the CoA does not count towards Section 3C (or any other form of) leave.

Page 13 of the Home Office 3C leave guidance wrote: Judicial review of the Upper Tribunal - “Cart” JRs
Where there is a JR against the Upper Tribunal’s refusal to grant permission to appeal, the person will not have section 3C leave while the JR is brought, or if it is successful, even if the outcome means that an appeal to the Upper Tribunal proceeds.

Also worth reading: Judicial review of Upper Tribunal

peacefultraveller wrote: ↑

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:26 pm

So where do I stand then on legal grounds and terms?

My understanding of the situation is that at this point in time (and since the UTT refused your appeal), your presence in the UK is illegal.

As an aside, I hope that you are not paying a solicitor for what is obviously bad advice.

How can i find this information for certain please?

What does this mean;

- when Upper Tribunal refused my appeal I had the right to seek permission from Upper tribunal to appeal to the court of appeal

- Upper tribunal refused to give permission then I had the right to appeal to the court of appeal directly.

So after refusal of permission by upper tribunal to appeal to court of appeal, an application can be made to court of appeal directly = this is what I did, and now I am waiting, does this mean I am an over-stayer?

WHY? and HOW?

If application was submitted in time.

Section 3c leave covers only appeals within the Tribunal system, so FTT & UTT. It does not cover JRs in the court system and outside the Tribunal system, so appeals to the High Court and Court of Appeal are not covered.

If you read through the link in my earlier post, it seems that that approach is intentional. Because a person with no leave can extend his leave by appealing continually and thus overburdening the court system, the Supreme Court seems to taken the approach of limiting the ability to appeal immigration cases.