The horror of the FORMS

[soosgyul]

Hi. I tried to search the forums, but couldn’t find anything relevant. I think I will write quite a bit, but please, bear with me.

My wife, my daughter and me are planning to apply for the UK citizenship, but first we will need a registration certificate.

This is the setup:
• All three of us are Hungarian AND Romanian citizens
• My wife and me are in England for over 6 years
• My daughter is two years old, she was born here
• I am a full time student (BSC), my wife is working

Here is what I understood so far, please correct me if I’m wrong:
• I need the registration certificate and not the residence card – because we are EEA citizens
• For the same reason, the biometric certification is not needed.

So, which forms do I complete?
First of all, there is the EEA (QP) form, which is good for a qualified person (working or student). With this both me and my wife could apply separately (right?). In this case our daughter is kinda left out – not an option.

Then there is the EEA (FM) form, where I could include my daughter, and even more, myself and my wife can be included in it. Is this true?

Then, just to confuse the living s**t out of me, there is the EEA (PR) form, which is apparently, exactly the same as the EEA (FM), I don’t know, maybe not.

And here is what I don’t understand:

I’ll assume, that as a family we will complete the FM form. I start the application with my name, my details and everything. Then in this comes up: Section 2 - Your sponsor… Who the hell is my sponsor? It says,
” the sponsor’ means the person who is your EEA national family member who is a qualified person or has permanent residence”

So, both me and my wife are qualified persons (student and working), so both of us can be sponsors.

So what do I do now?
1. I enter my details in section 1, and I’ll add my wife as the sponsor. My daughter will be the family member included in section 3.
2. I enter my details in section 1, I’ll leave the sponsor bit out, and my wife and daughter will be in the section 3.
3. I complete a QP form, my wife completes an FM form, and names me as the sponsor.
4. I give up, and move to Greenland instead (I hear, the weather is nice there at this time of the year)

thanks is andvance

[noajthan]

If you have not yet left for Greenland then hold your horses.

EEA (PR) is what you need to apply for DCPR.
That is assuming you have acquired PR by virtue of at least one of you (adults) being a qualified person by exercising treaty rights continuously for a period of 5 years.
Not necessarily the last 5 years!

Note A qualified person (in EU migration context) is a worker, self employed person or student etc.

As a student did/do you have CSI for all family members
If so, good you will have kept the PR clock going.
If not, PR clock will have stopped.

If the Hungarian person was the worker were they fully and properly registered for WRS if working in UK in/before 2011

If both adults are/have been qualified persons then you have choices:

• They can apply for DCPR individually in own right;
  Or one Union citizen can be the sponsor of their direct family member spouse;

It's your choice but it may also be determined by who has the best documentary supporting evidence.
That all needs to be rock-solid if not unimpeachable. (HO plays hard ball in this area).

Next steps
Check up on CSI & WRS questions;
Collate supporting evidence (did I mention it needs to be rock-solid);
Have a few dry runs with PR form;
See how it shapes up.

Pro tip: the current, 'monster' PR form isn't a mandatory, legal requirement.
You could go commando and apply using an earlier (simpler) version.

Your daughter doesn't really need DCPR.
She was born before you were settled in UK but now at least one parent is settled with PR (assuming that you are) then daughter is entitled to be registered as a citizen under section 1(3) of BNA.
That's got to be cooler than a polar bear's frosty bits.
Use form MN1.

Stay frosty.

[soosgyul]

Sorry, I'll have to play the stupid card:

If you have not yet left for Greenland then hold your horses.

EEA (PR) is what you need to apply for DCPR.

What is DCPR?

That is assuming you have acquired PR by virtue of at least one of you (adults) being a qualified person by exercising treaty rights continuously for a period of 5 years.
Not necessarily the last 5 years!

And what is the PR?

A qualified person (in EU migration context) is a worker, selfemployed person or student etc.

As a student did/do you have CSI for all family members?
If so, good you will have kept the PR clock going.
If not, PR clock will have stopped.

PR clock and CSI? You're just messing with me!

If both adults have been qualified persons they can apply individually in own right.
Or one can be the sponsor of their direct family member spouse.

It's your choice but may also be determined by who has the best documentary supporting evidence.
That all needs to be rock-solid if not unimpeachable. (HO plays hard ball in this area).

As soon as decode the text, I'll try to figure it out, I promise!
Thanks

[noajthan]

PR = Permanent residence (the holy grail for those on EU migration trajectory);
PR clock = imaginary counter of how long your activity has contributed towards acquiring PR (target 5 continuous years);
DCPR = Document confirming permanent residence;
CSI = comprehensive sickness insurance;

Get up to speed on free movement here:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

[secret.simon]

Also see FAQ, which has a broad overview in simple language.

[soosgyul]

CSI - I had no idea I need something like this.
Here is a quick timeline, on what happened, and please tell me, where did I do wrong!
Both of us arrived in the country as Romanians, and started working as self employed in september 2010.

In 2011, both became Hungarian citizens, and also stopped the self-employment business, and both started to work as employees.

In september 2014, I went back to school, as a full time student, foundation degree + BSC, finishing in 2017. At the same time, my wife went for maternity leave.
I haven't done any CSI or anything. If I was sick we went to the GP. I got prescriptions, and all. We have received some sort of housing benefit, child benefit, and child tax credit in the meantime.

After maternity leave, my wife went back to work, and I'm still a student.

And now we are here.

[secret.simon]

In 2011, both became Hungarian citizens, and also stopped the self-employment business, and both started to work as employees.

Did you start work as employees before or after 1st May 2011?

Maternity leave is classified as working, so it is likely that your wife has acquired PR by exercising treaty rights for five years and you have acquired it as her family member.

[soosgyul]

Did you start work as employees before or after 1st May 2011?

We started to work as employees after 1st of May, 2011. Before that, self-employed.

So based on your reply, my PR clock did not stop, when I went to school, right?

About the evidence I'm not too scared, we lived here, we can send all the bank statements, for every month, so they can see, that we spent the money here. We are also quite good in keeping old bills, and whatnots!

My daughter was born in 2014, and we came in the country in 2010, so none of us had (or have) the PR, so I'm guessing she has to be included in the form anyway. OR we just get the PR now, we leave her out of it, and when we get the DCPR, she will get the citizenship then (even before us).

[manci]

If you had a Hungarian EHIC card (Európai Egészszségbiztosítási Kártya) while being a student that may suffice in lieu of the CSI:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... issued.pdf

http://www.hrportal.hu/c/mire-jo-az-eur ... 70724.html

[secret.simon]

So based on your reply, my PR clock did not stop, when I went to school, right?

Yours did, your wife's did not. Your PR is on grounds of being your wife's family member, not in your own right.

when we get the DCPR, she will get the citizenship then (even before us).

Correct. She does not need the DCPR. She can register as a British citizen (Form MN1) immediately on your acquiring DCPR.

Your wife needs to fill in EEA(PR) with you as her dependent. Read the guidance notes in full. They may answer most of your questions.

[noajthan]

No A8 WRS nonsense if you were only employees after May 2011.
(Self employed denizens didn't need WRS at all).

Your PR clock was stopped during carefree student years unless you had suitable alternative;
eg foreign EHIC or a RC issued to you as student during/ before 2011.

Luckily you can rely on spouse/sponsor's economic activity.
Wife is your sponsor, you her dependent.

No need to guess what happens to baby, I already told you.
She's entitled as soon as you're settled; just register her.
No need for DCPR for her.

No need to wait for you DCPR to support baby.
A parent's DCPR may simplify MN1 paperwork but by one of those Twilight Zone-type quirks of the British system its not mandatory.

[soosgyul]

So. Next steps. I fill out the EEA(PR) form. I name my wife as a sponsor (even though she haven't got the DCPR either).

And with the baby we'll deal later.

[noajthan]

So. Next steps. I fill out the EEA(PR) form. I name my wife as a sponsor (even though she haven't got the DCPR either).

And with the baby we'll deal later.

Yes, if sticking with latest form.

Yes, wife is sponsor.
Remember the application is only for a document to confirm the status you believe she (and by virtue of wife, you) have already acquired.
DCPR doesn't confer any rights in itself.

Apply for baby now if you wish. Or wait and use a parent's DCPR later for some slight convenience.

[manci]

You and your wife will be eligible to apply for naturalisation (British citizenship) one year after having obtained PR. However, if the 5 years lawful residence in the UK necessary for PR is claimed on the basis of years 1-5 of your 6 years stay then you may be able to apply for naturalisation and PR at the same time but in that case both applications must be 100% correct incl. supporting documents.

[soosgyul]

So. Next steps. I fill out the EEA(PR) form. I name my wife as a sponsor (even though she haven't got the DCPR either).

And with the baby we'll deal later.

Yes, if sticking with latest form.

Yes, wife is sponsor.
Remember the application is only for a document to confirm the status you believe she (and by virtue of wife, you) have already acquired.
DCPR doesn't confer any rights in itself.

Apply for baby now if you wish. Or wait and use a parent's DCPR later for some slight convenience.

Sorry for being stupid again... so.
The form looks like this:
Section 1: applicant's details - that's me, the student
Section 2: your sponsor - that's my wife, who's PR clock is uninterrupted.
Section 3: Tick: I’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of five years as an EEA national qualified person, the family member or extended family member of a qualified person, or a combination of these.

Is this correct?

[noajthan]

If wife is applying too then she is main applicant.
No need to fill out sponsor section.
You are entered as family member.