PR application and Registration Certificate Application

[natalii91]

Hi, I wonder if anyone could advise me on my application dilemma.

My family and I came to the UK in 2010 - I was still in school at the time and dependent on my family, not working etc. I have lived at home ever since, even after I graduated from uni. I have worked full-time since the end of 2014 but I don't pay the rent, bills or any such payments (well, I give my mum money but it's not official, it's cash). Now, I would like to make an application for Permanent Residence Certificate as a EU national and a lawyer advised me that, because I've lived at home (same household rule) and haven't paid accommodation etc. officially, I could apply with my parent as the sponsor, in the dependent family member category (because I'm over 21).
(I could not apply in my own right at this stage, because before I started working I was a student and didn't work enough hours to classify as a worker, and we didn't have any private insurance either).

My mum works part-time and gets some benefits on my younger sibling - her hours and pay should technically be enough to be classified as genuine and effective employment, but I'm thinking that maybe, just in case Home Office thinks it's not enough or that I earn too much money for my mum to be my sponsor and rejects my application - maybe I should also apply for the Registration Certificate in my own right? I would only be eligible for permanent residence at the end of 2019 and the UK may well leave the EU before that, but such certificate is still better than nothing... But if I apply as a qualified person for that certificate, then maybe that would hinder my chances of getting classified as a dependent in my parent's household?

Maybe I should apply for PR first and see what happens, and then if it gets rejected, apply for my own registration certificate at that stage?
Also, does anyone know if the permanent residence period counts from the moment you've started exercising the Treaty rights and can prove it, or from the moment you get a registration certificate (if you get one)? I reckon it's the former, but just want to make sure.

Thanks in advance!

[noajthan]

Suggest shoot for confirmation of PR first. Perhaps 2010-2014 as FM dependent and then in own right 2014+.
Be aware HO may apply MET/PET test on mom's income.

Is mom an A8 national? if so is WRS in order?

Yes, as you surmised, the former applies not the latter; date of issue of an optional RC is largely irrelevant.

[natalii91]

Thanks for the reply!

Well, my mum had a strange WRS situation (we do come from an A8 country) back when it was still required and then she didn't have permanent employment until August 2012. That is why I would like to apply in or after August this year and make sure that 5 years have passed since the moment my mum started to exercise the Treaty rights.

My mum had a WRS certificate but only for a number of months between when she started work in 2010 and April 2011. Do you reckon that's gonna be a problem even though we would count the eligible period from 2012?

It's great news about the residence certificate. If I would want to apply as a dependent from 2012 until November 2014 and then in my own right (worker) from November 2014 until now, do you know how I should present this on the application form? I know that one used to be allowed to just apply with a letter but that lawyer I spoke to warned me that from February this year only the application form would be accepted. Should I provide the details of the situation in the "Applicant's activity" section? Or include a cover letter and mention it in the form?

[natalii91]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can advise - I have posted here before, I am applying for a PR certificate soon as an EU national and my mum, who I have lived with, is going to be my sponsor. All bills, rent and similar things are in my mum's name and I only ever give her cash, so I'm not very worried about applying as a dependent.

But I'm wondering if Home Office will expect lots of evidence for me living at the same address, which I don't really have... I have my bank statements covering the entire relevant period with my address on them. Other than that - I have some letters from university or tax office, or a doctor here and there, but I wouldn't have one letter per every 6 months or anything as regular as that, unfortunately. The guidance notes say:

"Evidence of living in the same household as the sponsor, if relevant – e.g. tenancy agreement
naming you/the family member and the sponsor, utility bills with your/the family member’s
name on, mobile phone bills, etc."

Now, I'm not and have never been named on our tenancy agreement, we don't really have any utility bills as we only ever pay gas and electric by the top-up card. It mentions an NHS card but my NHS card was issued a long time ago and it shows my/my mum's address from before our qualifying period.

Some more examples from the guidance notes:

"Letters or other documents from government departments or agencies, for example HM
Revenue and Customs, Department for Work and Pensions, DVLA, TV Licensing
 Letters or other documents from your GP, a hospital or other local health service about medical
treatments, appointments, home visits or other medical matters
 Bank statements/letters
 Building society savings books/letters
 Council tax bills or statements
 Electricity and/or gas bills or statements
 Water rates bills or statements
 Mortgage statements/agreement
 Tenancy agreement(s)
 Telephone bills or statements"

I have some letters from HM Revenue and Customs proving my address, but unfortunately it's nothing very regular.

Now, I can provide correspondence from Student Finance and download my mobile phone statements from the website. BUT - in my final year I lived "part-time" with my boyfriend and part-time with family, so the Student Finance letter from that year has my boyfriend's address on it and so do my mobile bills because I got my account with that provider around that time and then forgot to change the address back - so the mobile bills won't be of much use. I got a letter from Student Finance, though, to confirm that in my final year my term time address was the one they sent the letter to but my home address was at my mum's house as per their records. Do you think that would be any good?

HO recommend to submit at least 2 documents per each year of residence, but do you think that they would be strict in terms of the exact date on those documents? For example, 2013 - my bank statement will be issued in December covering the entire year and my Student Finance letter will be dated August. Would that still work, or will HO want a letter from the first half of the year too?

I spoke to a lawyer regarding my application a while ago and he stated that a letter from my mum confirming my residence with her would also be valid. Do you think it could serve as the second document...?

Thanks in advance for advice!

[noajthan]

Posts merged.

Cohabitation is not necessary under EU law.
Although it may help demonstrate dependency, including emotional dependency.

[natalii91]

Posts merged.

Cohabitation is not necessary under EU law.
Although it may help demonstrate dependency, including emotional dependency.

noajthan, the potential problem is that I don't have any means to show that my mum has given me money - she hasn't actually sent me funds to my bank account or anything of that sort. However, we have lived together and she's paid for our essential expenses.

In the Caseworker's guidance notes I found this list of evidence that must be presented:

"The applicant must provide proof of their dependency such as:
 bank or building society statements
 evidence of money transfers
 evidence of living in the same household if applicable
 other evidence to show their EEA national sponsor has enough money to support them and the applicant is reliant on them for this"

I can show that I have lived with my mum and that she covers our essential expenses, but that's it. Do you think that's going to be a big problem? Then again, there is this paragraph:

"The applicant does not need to be dependent on the relevant EEA national to meet all or most of their essential needs. For example an applicant can still be considered dependent if they receive a pension to cover half of their essential needs and money from the relevant EEA national to cover the other half."
So, maybe if my mum covers the main of my essential needs: accommodation, utilities etc. and I present the evidence of this, evidence of additional money transfers or expenses wouldn't be essential? That, plus the emotional dependency?

Thanks in advance for any tips, you're obviously very knowledgeable in the subject!

[noajthan]

The guidance doesn't mean you can present half the evidence.
It means your dependency for your essential daily needs may constitute up to 50% of your income stream - quite generous really.

Unfortunately you will need rock-solid evidence - which means a papertrail. HO is a paper-bound organisation.

[natalii91]

I see. I got confused as to that part because the lawyer I spoke to (not in a formal consultation, but still) convinced me that, regardless of my own employment, as long as I live in the same household as my sponsor and my sponsor covers the main expenses, then I will be classified as a dependent. Here I found some information from another legal advice website, which I presume the lawyer was referring to:

"A family member includes a spouse, child under the age of 21 and direct relatives in the ascending line where they are financially dependent on the qualified person. Other relatives can come under the definition of an ‘extended family member’ (treated as family members) but they are required to prove that they were financially dependent on the EEA national or were a member of the qualified person’s household before arrival in the UK."

I see, however, that this relates to an "extended family member" - my sponsor is my parent, and if I read the form/notes correctly, then I am still a direct family member (as children over 21 and parents, for example, are classified under this category). That is why I thought that proving that I have lived within the same household and the rent money etc. are paid by my parent, would be sufficient evidence.

[noajthan]

I see. I got confused as to that part because the lawyer I spoke to (not in a formal consultation, but still) convinced me that, regardless of my own employment, as long as I live in the same household as my sponsor and my sponsor covers the main expenses, then I will be classified as a dependent. Here I found some information from another legal advice website, which I presume the lawyer was referring to:

"A family member includes a spouse, child under the age of 21 and direct relatives in the ascending line where they are financially dependent on the qualified person. Other relatives can come under the definition of an ‘extended family member’ (treated as family members) but they are required to prove that they were financially dependent on the EEA national or were a member of the qualified person’s household before arrival in the UK."

I see, however, that this relates to an "extended family member" - my sponsor is my parent, and if I read the form/notes correctly, then I am still a direct family member (as children over 21 and parents, for example, are classified under this category). That is why I thought that proving that I have lived within the same household and the rent money etc. are paid by my parent, would be sufficient evidence.

Yes there are FMs and EFMs.

EFMs are a different kettle of fish. To be treated as an EFM you would need an EFM RC based on your sponsor.
And to prove that you were a (recent) member of sponsor's household (where sponsor was head of household) before coming to UK - as well as in UK.

You can get up to speed on EFMs, here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... als_v3.pdf