Permanent Residence Card Refused

[galatie]

Hi all,

I just received my application back, with a refusal. I am a US citizen, and married my EU husband in May 2012. I have lived and worked continuously in the UK for the past five years. My husband has been here since 2010, working for the entire duration, and received his PR card in June 2015.

The application was refused on the following grounds:
Applications must be accompanied by the evidence required by the EEA regulations. We have not received sufficient evidence of you/your EEA National Sponsor exercising Treaty Rights in the UK to support your application.

With my application, I had included a letter from from my previous employer, when I worked there from 2012-2013, confirming that I had worked at the company. I had also included a couple months payslips from 2012 and 2013. With my current employee (2013-present), I included a few months payslips from 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. I also included bank statements from the past 5 years, where you could see monthly wages being deposited. i also had a letter from HMRC confirming my tax bracket fro the year.
For my husband, I only submitted his PR card.

Can someone please tell me what I should do now? I need to make a fresh application, and include what other further documentation? I can add in a letter from my current employer confirming my employment, and add in more pay slips, I suppose. For my husband, was it not enough proof that he was exercising his treaty rights by sending in his PR card? Should I add in wage slips, work contract, for him as well?

Thank you!

[CR001]

Did you not submit any evidence to prove your EU husband was exercising treaty rights and a qualified person?

Your employment is irrelevant for applications under the EEA/EU regs.

[lake1]

I think you made a mistake of sending proofs for yourself working, as much as the application is for you applying for PR the main evidence needed is for your spouse exercising their treaty right, you might as well be at home and dont work and your application will still be successful, the documents showing treaty right is required for your spouse.

Send his PR and documents (payslips, p60 etc) showing he is still exercising his treaty right after his PR date and you've ticked the box for proving he is exercising his treaty right, all the best.

[omonile]

I dont get it,If she submitted her husband DCPR, I think she does not need to proof excercise of treaty right as that is a settled status and sponsor is free of immigration control.Am i missing something here?



Section 9: Relevant EEA national’s activity in the UK
You may provide evidence for more than one category, for example, you may have spent time as a
student for 2 years, and spent time as a worker for 3 years. A mix of time spent in different categories
can be used provided they cover a single continuous 5 year period.
Annex H includes a table of examples of people exercising Treaty rights in various ways in the UK for
different periods of time. The table suggests an adequate level of evidence of activity and residence
for each scenario. You may find these examples a helpful guide when thinking about your
circumstances.
Subsection A: evidence of the relevant EEA national’s activity as a qualified person
Please provide one of the following:
• your sponsor’s document certifying permanent residence if you answered ‘yes’ to question
9.3
• proof that you have/your sponsor has been a qualified person for the relevant period – see

[lake1]

I dont get it,If she submitted her husband DCPR, I think she does not need to proof excercise of treaty right as that is a settled status and sponsor is free of immigration control.Am i missing something here?



Section 9: Relevant EEA national’s activity in the UK
You may provide evidence for more than one category, for example, you may have spent time as a
student for 2 years, and spent time as a worker for 3 years. A mix of time spent in different categories
can be used provided they cover a single continuous 5 year period.
Annex H includes a table of examples of people exercising Treaty rights in various ways in the UK for
different periods of time. The table suggests an adequate level of evidence of activity and residence
for each scenario. You may find these examples a helpful guide when thinking about your
circumstances.
Subsection A: evidence of the relevant EEA national’s activity as a qualified person
Please provide one of the following:
• your sponsor’s document certifying permanent residence if you answered ‘yes’ to question
9.3
• proof that you have/your sponsor has been a qualified person for the relevant period – see

The EU national could have lost the PR.

By sending proof of exercising treaty right after the PR was issued eliminates that theory.

[omonile]

It might be, but its obvious that except physically lost,it can only be invalid after 2years absence which we can not ascertain now.But reconsideration won't be a bad idea. Less we forget that DCPR was issued in june 2015.

[lake1]

It might be, but its obvious that except physically lost,it can only be invalid after 2years absence which we can not ascertain now.But reconsideration won't be a bad idea. Less we forget that DCPR was issued in june 2015.

I think invalid after 2 years is just a guideline for years of being absent from the UK, it can be invalid for a lesser period than that if am not wrong.

I think just like ILR if someone leaves the UK with the intention of not making the UK their home again ie move to another country then they invalidates the ILR or PR, I'll let experts comment on this.

There is a case of someone here that had their ILR cancelled on return to the UK when they've spent less than 2 years out of the country and there are cases of people that have left the UK for more than 2 years that didnt have any issue on return to the UK.

Having the proof of residence in the UK like showing continuous proof of exercising treaty right after the PR was issued helps eliminate any doubt.

[omonile]

I will leave gelatie to expanciate on the reasons for refusal as i think there is more to it.Besides the gurus knows better.

[galatie]

Thank you everyone, for your replies. I stand corrected on one thing - my husband received his permanent residence card in September 2016. As I was submitting his original residence card along with my application, I had thought I had read in the guidance notes that it was not necessary to send proof that he was exercising his treaty rights? Thus, I did not send in any of his payslips, P60s, work documents, etc. Perhaps I was wrong?

Can someone please advise on what my next course of action should be? Submit a fresh application, and include his PR card and proof that he is still exercising treaty rights? I still have all of the documentation which we submitted to get his PR (bank statements, payslips, etc) it was quite a big stack, should I include all of this in my new application as well? As for myself, is there anything I need to send in to prove that I am exercising treaty rights?

Thank you all in advance for your help.

[galatie]

And to clarify, I sent the items mentioned above (payslips, HMRC letter, bank statements) as part of the proof that I've been living in the UK for the past 5 years... wonder if I need to submit more proof?

Would they have mentioned it in the letter if they needed more evidence?

[Osafidence]

This are what they want from your EEA husband(Sponsor)

1. May 2012 to date working histroy which can be obtained from HMRC
2. Recent 3-6 months bank statements
3. Recent 3-6 months utility bills
4.EEA Passport or ID Card
5.Recent 3-6 months payslips..
6. Letter from Employer.
7. Tenancy or Mortgage Agreement letter
8. Marriage Certificate
9.1 passport photograph.
NOTE: 5 YEARS WORKING HISTORY VERY IMMPORTANT.
WHAT THEY WANT FROM YOU
1. Proof of dependancy or proof of household member e.g all your correspondence letters with same Address with your Husband
2. Your passport with RC
3. Passport photographs 2 pcs
4. Bank statements....payslips.....tv licence.....hmrc notices......credit cards offer.....utility bills.....employers letters....tenancy Agreement....anything with your name and same address with your husband are all proof of member of Household.
NOTE: Dependant case show reflect in both bank statements on standing Order on monthly basis. Your working histroy is not necessary to HO because you still on RC acquired from a Sponsor(Husband) Good luck.

[GMB]

You very much need to download and read the current version of the HO guidance notes for filling out the EEA(PR) form. It's EEA(PR) Guidance Notes Version 3 (Apr 2017), and can be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... tes-v3.pdf

For one thing, on p.12 it says the following:
Subsection A: evidence of the relevant EEA national’s activity as a qualified person
Please provide one of the following:
• your sponsor’s document certifying permanent residence if you answered ‘yes’ to question 9.3
• proof that you have/your sponsor has been a qualified person for the relevant period – see below

So if you sent in his DCPR and they still refused the application based on anything about lack of evidence of him being a qualified person, then they have made a major mistake. The DCPR is evidence that he's a qualified person, and as such negates any need to provide P60s or payslips, etc. In fact the form directs the applicant to skip the rest of Section 9 if they're supplying the DCPR with their application. I submitted my wife's DCPR (only) with my EEA(PR) application in May 2017, and got my PR card in September with no problem, so as I said it appears someone made a big mistake here. You have the right to request a reconsideration of any application made under EU law, which is NOT the same thing as an appeal. That's what I'd do first.

[galatie]

Thank you, GMB.

That's what I thought as well!! I had read in the guidance that if I send in his current DCPR, then I would not have to send in proof that he is and has been exercising his treaty rights. Therefore, I did not send in his payslips, P60s, etc.

There seems to be conflicting views on this thread however.. so confused... am I in the right or wrong?

Is it better to make a reconsideration or send in a new application, as I would rather get this settled sooner rather than later. Who should I contact?

[galatie]

And this is so stressful, my visa expired on Oct 17 - so am I technically classified as an overstayer now?

What to do now??!!

[CR001]

And this is so stressful, my visa expired on Oct 17 - so am I technically classified as an overstayer now?

No you are not. A Residence Card under the EEA/EU rules is NOT a visa.

[GMB]

And this is so stressful, my visa expired on Oct 17 - so am I technically classified as an overstayer now?

What to do now??!!

As CR001 said, you're definitely not an overstayer. Your right to reside in the UK derives from you being the immediate family member of an EEA national who has acquired permanent residence, not from any document issued by the Home Office. That's why EEA documents are never called visas: a visa itself gives you specific rights, so when it expires you lose those rights. EEA documents are simply proof of rights you have inherently.

[GMB]

Thank you, GMB.

There seems to be conflicting views on this thread however.. so confused... am I in the right or wrong?

Is it better to make a reconsideration or send in a new application, as I would rather get this settled sooner rather than later. Who should I contact?

I have zero experience with reconsideration requests, so I hope someone else will chime in here. But from what I can find digging through other threads, it appears you should send everything back with a cover letter to the original Durham address. In the cover letter, lay it out very clearly, preferably quoting specific parts of their own Guidance Notes and EEA(PR) form, as to why you didn't need to provide employment information in the first place. I tend to address them as if I'm dealing with a 10-yr old with attention deficit disorder. Not insulting, but very simple, very specific explanations that are clearly laid out using quotes from their own documents. So far it's worked. Make sure you put your caseID number on the envelope, on the cover letter, and anywhere else you can. And if you know the name of your caseworker from the refusal letter, send it attention that person specifically. I would start out with "I am exercising my right to request reconsideration under EU and UK law by..."

I think where people here are getting confused is the difference between Section 5 (proof of residency in the UK) and Section 9 (proof of EEA sponsor exercising treaty rights). As you know, everyone has to do Section 5, and P60s or payslips or other work-related items CAN be used as evidence for Section 5. So contrary to what some have written, you don't have to prove you're still working to prove you're still resident in the country.

[GMB]

to the original Durham address

On further thought, send it to whatever address the refusal letter came from. Probably a Liverpool location?

[galatie]

Thank you - I honestly feel the caseworker was at fault here.

It clearly states that if I send in my husband's document certifying permanent residency I can pass on to the next section, and do not have to send in proof that he is exercising his treaty rights.

What a saga... I will send off a letter to the home office now.

[Osafidence]

Thank you - I honestly feel the caseworker was at fault here.

It clearly states that if I send in my husband's document certifying permanent residency I can pass on to the next section, and do not have to send in proof that he is exercising his treaty rights.

What a saga... I will send off a letter to the home office now.

I guess in ur Refusal letter the caseworker reference EEA REGULATION why they refused you.....you need to proof to them that for your 5 years stay in your marriage or RC your sponsor was exercising treaty Right..... my inlaw went the same as you.... your Sponsor obtained DCPR 2015 what if he stopped working afterwards,proof to them he worked by send his documents..... so far you based on your personal working histroy which is not their priority....if only you have ROR thats when your working histroy counts. Good luck

[GMB]

...your Sponsor obtained DCPR 2015 what if he stopped working afterwards,proof to them he worked by send his documents.....

Wrong. Once an EEA national has acquired Permanent Residence, they do NOT have to continue to exercise treaty rights, period. Otherwise, PR would be kind of pointless, wouldn't it? The caseworker made a mistake. She only needed to show that her EEA sponsor was still resident in the UK (sec.5) not that he was still working (sec.9). The EEA(PR) form says this itself -- if your sponsor has PR, then no need to send proof of exercising treaty rights.

[Osafidence]

...your Sponsor obtained DCPR 2015 what if he stopped working afterwards,proof to them he worked by send his documents.....

Wrong. Once an EEA national has acquired Permanent Residence, they do NOT have to continue to exercise treaty rights, period. Otherwise, PR would be kind of pointless, wouldn't it? The caseworker made a mistake. She only needed to show that her EEA sponsor was still resident in the UK (sec.5) not that he was still working (sec.9). The EEA(PR) form says this itself -- if your sponsor has PR, then no need to send proof of exercising treaty rights.

@GMB are you now advising the OP to go ahead and submit her Sponsorson PR only?

[GMB]

@GMB are you now advising the OP to go ahead and submit her Sponsorson PR only?

I advised her that in the same situation I'd request a reconsideration of the original application, pointing out that she had done exactly what the guidance notes and the form said to do. If she wishes to include her EEA sponsor's current evidence of exercising treaty rights, that's up to her. But keep in mind there are going to be EEA nationals with PR (DCPR) that have decided to quit work and are out golfing every day. So what would they have to show? The point is once you have PR as an EEA national, you are no longer required to exercise any treaty rights whatsoever. You are free to sit around and do nothing if you want. I'm sorry you don't believe this is true, but this isn't even remotely controversial, and is stated in the very HO Guidance Notes and on the EEA(PR) form that she filled out.

[galatie]

Hi everyone,

Having further problems with the Home Office.

To summarise this saga again, I had what I thought was a straightforward case. I am a US citizen, husband is Belgian with PR, and we have been married for 5 years, since 2012. Time to apply for my EEA4/PR visa and never had any problems with immigration before. We spent some time gathering all of our documentation together, and submitted my application in September. Received it back in November, with a letter stating that the photo was in the wrong format (my fault) and that we needed to supply further evidence that the sponsor was exercising treaty rights, even though I had submitted his PR card alongside our application. Spent another one or two weeks gathering further documentation and sent in a new application at the end of November. Being that we had submitted his PR card, we didn't understand why we had to submit further proof of his right in the UK, my husband contacted the Home Office and finally received an email back, stating that the computer system had incorrectly generated the wrong reason for why the application was rejected, so it was only supposed to be resubmitted because of the photos. Quite annoyed, as we wasted time and effort in gathering more documentation which was unnecessary.

We wanted to travel home to Belgium for the holidays and requested my passport back. I just received my passport back, and with a letter, which states that family members of an EEA national, who are not themselves EEA nationals wishing to return to the UK should apply for an EEA family permit before returning. My husband looked up the processing times for this, and they range from 15-60 days??? And he called the Home Office about this, and they said that I can only apply for the family permit outside of the UK?

I had thought that getting the passport back to travel would let me travel quite easily into and out of the UK until my application is decided. So if I want to travel outside of the UK, I am stuck at the destination until my family permit is processed? That sounds completely insane to me - as I could be waiting a few weeks or a few months even!! I need to work and we have kids! How do people work, travel, etc, while their application is being reviewed? Feeling that my movements here are so restricted and really don't know what to do....

Does anyone know if what we were told by the Home Office today is correct? If go, guess I will have to stay put in the UK until everything is decided...

[Mugen]

Sorry to hear this and I think it’s better(if your residence card has expired) not to plan any travel outside of UK until you receive your PR, otherwise you will have to apply for FP from outside of UK and I could only imagine how stressful and costly it will be.
Very nice of HO to refuse because of photo and blame their system, but Im sure no one cares. So your only option will be submit application again(which is very annoying) and hopefully in 2 month time you will get your PR.

I will be sending my application in couple of weeks time and will include partners proof of exercising treaty rights since PR to avoid situation when some muppet don’t know how to do their job.

I hope it will be sorted for you soon and wish you to be strong and patient.