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Hi All!

Well, here I come again with more questions. Two of my EU friends are trying to bring their non-EU children to the UK.

1st case: Has a 19 year who holds a Spaniard RC and is about to finish school.

2nd case: Has full custody of two minors 14 -12, and again they are RC holders.

In your opinion, what would be the most effective way to bring them to the UK? To apply for a Family Permit in Spain? If so, what supporting documents do you suggest to be enclosed with the application?

Thank you in advance for you kind answers.

jrge wrote:Hi All!

Well, here I come again with more questions. Two of my EU friends are trying to bring their non-EU children to the UK.

1st case: Has a 19 year who holds a Spaniard RC and is about to finish school.

2nd case: Has full custody of two minors 14 -12, and again they are RC holders.

In your opinion, what would be the most effective way to bring them to the UK? To apply for a Family Permit in Spain? If so, what supporting documents do you suggest to be enclosed with the application?

Thank you in advance for you kind answers.

Generally, children of EU citizens under 21 can be with their parents. Above 21 they would need to show dependency.

What nationality are the children? If not visa nationals, no visa required.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
Generally, children of EU citizens under 21 can be with their parents. Above 21 they would need to show dependency.

What nationality are the children? If not visa nationals, no visa required.

All the children were born in Colombia. In the 1st case, the 19 y/o would like to start working right away. In the 2nd case, was indicated on the divorce settlement that the children will always carry a physical evidence of legal residency, hence the need to have "something".

jrge wrote:To apply for a Family Permit in Spain? If so, what supporting documents do you suggest to be enclosed with the application?

For the cases you mention birth certificates would be the main thing.

So all the children are Colombian citizens.

Are each of the children are living in Spain? Is each a biological child of the EU citizen, or are some the biological child of the spouse of the EU citizen?

In the 2nd case, was indicated on the divorce settlement that the children will always carry a physical evidence of legal residency, hence the need to have "something".

This is really odd. I would be curious to know the exact words that were used in the divorce settlement (Spanish would be fine). Could they carry a print out from the UKBA web site?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:So all the children are Colombian citizens.

Are each of the children are living in Spain? Is each a biological child of the EU citizen, or are some the biological child of the spouse of the EU citizen?

In the 2nd case, was indicated on the divorce settlement that the children will always carry a physical evidence of legal residency, hence the need to have "something".

This is really odd. I would be curious to know the exact words that were used in the divorce settlement (Spanish would be fine). Could they carry a print out from the UKBA web site?

Hi, all the children are living in Spain at the moment. There are two separate cases.

The one case with the 19 y/o; she will be coming to the UK with her dad, who will also apply for the Family Permit. The mother secured Spaniard Citizenship. (Don't know much about it)

With the minors, they need to have an actual "visa" stamped on their passports because their biological father travels for work and the children will have to visit him wherever in the world he is. I believe at some point either one of the parents were living illegally in another country, and have already gone through this situation before. I asked her if a print out from UKBA will be more than enough to satisfy this requirement, and she turned pale! So, let's continue helping our brothers and sisters.

I will try to procure the divorce settlement papers to share them with you all.

@EUsmileWEallsmile: Thanks for your always prompt and wise suggestions!

The one case with the 19 y/o; she will be coming to the UK with her dad, who will also apply for the Family Permit. The mother secured Spaniard Citizenship. (Don't know much about it)

Is there a complication of any sort with this case? Why are you asking about it? The husband and child can apply for an EEA FP, or enter through the tunnel or ferry by doing an MRAX entry.

With the minors, they need to have an actual "visa" stamped on their passports because their biological father travels for work and the children will have to visit him wherever in the world he is. I believe at some point either one of the parents were living illegally in another country, and have already gone through this situation before. I asked her if a print out from UKBA will be more than enough to satisfy this requirement, and she turned pale! So, let's continue helping our brothers and sisters.

What is the citizenship of the parent who will be living in the UK? Again, what is the complication that you are worried about?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

The one case with the 19 y/o; she will be coming to the UK with her dad, who will also apply for the Family Permit. The mother secured Spaniard Citizenship. (Don't know much about it)

Is there a complication of any sort with this case? Why are you asking about it? The husband and child can apply for an EEA FP, or enter through the tunnel or ferry by doing an MRAX entry.

Sorry for this naive question, can they apply using the same application or they have to lodge separate applications?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:

With the minors, they need to have an actual "visa" stamped on their passports because their biological father travels for work and the children will have to visit him wherever in the world he is. I believe at some point either one of the parents were living illegally in another country, and have already gone through this situation before. I asked her if a print out from UKBA will be more than enough to satisfy this requirement, and she turned pale! So, let's continue helping our brothers and sisters.

What is the citizenship of the parent who will be living in the UK? Again, what is the complication that you are worried about?

The mother is Spaniard and currently here in London. Sorry if I seem all "freaked out", but this woman really needs help, and I want to make sure everything I do is 100% perfect.

So, shall both of them include the translated Birth Certificate of every child with their FP application? Is there any other document you would suggest to include?

By the way, we should put together a workshop to educate newcomers from within the Union. This Forum is the best source of information, but some of them don't have access to the Internet.

jrge wrote: Sorry for this naive question, can they apply using the same application or they have to lodge separate applications?

I'm not sure if this answers your question, but clearly the EU national does not require a visa; the non-EU child of the EU national does (as he is a visa national). If there is more than one applicant, they all need to make visa applications and have biometrics taken (there are exceptions for very young children, but they still need the visa).

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: I'm not sure if this answers your question, but clearly the EU national does not require a visa; the non-EU child of the EU national does (as he is a visa national). If there is more than one applicant, they all need to make visa applications and have biometrics taken

It does. Thanks! And only the translated Birth Certificate will be more than suffice, right?

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: (there are exceptions for very young children, but they still need the visa).

Do you mind elaborating on this?

jrge wrote:...but this woman really needs help, and I want to make sure everything I do is 100% perfect.

So, shall both of them include the translated Birth Certificate of every child with their FP application? Is there any other document you would suggest to include?.

I would suggest a translation of both birth certificates to demonstrate that they are related to mum and proof that mum is an EU national (passport or ID card). The Spanish residence document may help if it demonstrates familial link.

Given that la madre is in the UK, her status will be important (unless she's there simply visiting friends). As you know, if she wants to stay for more than three months she will generally need to be a worker, self-sufficient or student. If this is the case they will expect evidence that she is doing one of these things.

jrge wrote:

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: (there are exceptions for very young children, but they still need the visa).

Do you mind elaborating on this?

children under 5 years old;

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas ... /applying/#

jrge wrote:And only the translated Birth Certificate will be more than suffice, right?

The directive says (article 10.b)

(b) a document attesting to the existence of a family relationship or of a registered partnership;

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

jrge wrote:...but this woman really needs help, and I want to make sure everything I do is 100% perfect.

So, shall both of them include the translated Birth Certificate of every child with their FP application? Is there any other document you would suggest to include?.

I would suggest a translation of both birth certificates to demonstrate that they are related to mum and proof that mum is an EU national (passport or ID card). The Spanish residence document may help if it demonstrates familial link.

Given that la madre is in the UK, her status will be important (unless she's there simply visiting friends). As you know, if she wants to stay for more than three months she will generally need to be a worker, self-sufficient or student. If this is the case they will expect evidence that she is doing one of these things.

Dude, you are awesome! La Mamá (Mum) has been in the UK since April and currently working.

Like I said, the only hesitation I had, was the fact that the "Father" had demanded on the divorce settlement for the children to always have a valid and legal Residence Document or visa for that matter. You and I know they don't need it, but I would like to avoid cloudy skies!

jrge wrote: Like I said, the only hesitation I had, was the fact that the "Father" had demanded on the divorce settlement for the children to always have a valid and legal Residence Document or visa for that matter.

The family permit will let the children in and out of the UK (it's valid for six months). They should apply for a residence card as soon as they can, which will give them five years. As long as la mamá is a worker, it will all work out.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

jrge wrote: Like I said, the only hesitation I had, was the fact that the "Father" had demanded on the divorce settlement for the children to always have a valid and legal Residence Document or visa for that matter.

The family permit will let the children in and out of the UK (it's valid for six months). They should apply for a residence card as soon as they can, which will give them five years. As long as la mamá is a worker, it will all work out.

Two more questions. Both ladies were given a horrendous hard time at the Spaniard Embassy last week. So, I need you guidance on this:

1) Can they send their Original Spaniard ID Card with those Family Permit Applications, instead of a Certified Copy of their passport?
DNI: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documento_de_identidad

2) Where on God's green earth can they lodge a very strong complain about this mistreatment?

Thanks in advance!

jrge wrote:Two more questions. Both ladies were given a horrendous hard time at the Spaniard Embassy last week. So, I need you guidance on this:

1) Can they send their Original Spaniard ID Card with those Family Permit Applications, instead of a Certified Copy of their passport?
DNI: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documento_de_identidad

2) Where on God's green earth can they lodge a very strong complain about this mistreatment?

I assume you are talking about Spanish citizens (who are also Colombian citizens) going to the Spanish embassy in London. Are both mothers currently in the UK?

Answer 1) An EU citizen can submit either their passport or their national ID card for proof of their right of free movement. There is no requirement that they must have a passport.

Answer 2) The Spanish embassy has a reputation for being super rude in the issue of visas. I wonder sometimes why anyone would want to subject themselves to such rude treatment, when they could instead go to Germany or the Netherlands. I would not be surprised if the consular services staff are also rude. They are especially rude to people who come originally from Colombia and South America, even if they now have British citizenship. Who knows why, but the bad stories keep coming.

What exactly happened at the embassy?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I assume you are talking about Spanish citizens (who are also Colombian citizens) going to the Spanish embassy in London. Are both mothers currently in the UK?

Answer 1) An EU citizen can submit either their passport or their national ID card for proof of their right of free movement. There is no requirement that they must have a passport.

Answer 2) The Spanish embassy has a reputation for being super rude in the issue of visas. I wonder sometimes why anyone would want to subject themselves to such rude treatment, when they could instead go to Germany or the Netherlands. I would not be surprised if the consular services staff are also rude. They are especially rude to people who come originally from Colombia and South America, even if they now have British citizenship. Who knows why, but the bad stories keep coming.

What exactly happened at the embassy?

Thank you for your input, they are in London at the moment and will send their DNI in absent of the Certified Copy of their passport.

These two ladies are Colombian-Spaniards, and at the Spaniard Embassy in London were physically pushed out the door, because the Staff Member was "overwhelmed" and under severe "pressure" due to the amount of work. (I could elaborate more in private, the language that was used it's rather strong)

I am calling the Embassy today to complain, and even when am not Spaniard (Good Lord I'm not) I am going to grill them. If they get smart, I will pay them a visit with some Civil Rights fellas.

Thank you again, I shall keep you posted!

jrge wrote:...instead of a Certified Copy of their passport...

A straight photocopy of the biometrics page should be sufficient in most cases.

I know it says this on the website http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... documents/

a copy of the EEA national's passport, endorsed by the EEA national's embassy in the country of application)

However, in this document http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... permit.pdf

it says this

Evidence of your sponsor’s nationality
This could be copies of:
bio-data pages from their passport
their national identity document
their residence permit

I'm not sure what evidence the UKBA expects to see for spouse visas, but suspect that they don't ask for a certified photocopy of the British citizen's passport.