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EU Family permit route, how to apply with dual nationality
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:50 pm
by ClarkClarke
My soon-to-be spouse and I are currently on holiday in Ireland. I'm on a visitor visa from the US, and she has dual Irish/British citizenship and currently lives in the UK. Once married (in Ireland) we wish to live together in the UK. Our understanding is that the following steps will allow us to reside in the UK as an EU family. Please confirm or otherwise comment and correct these assumptions. Thank you.
EU national:
-Apply for Irish passport (she currently holds a British passport)
-When received, print the UKBA application online to give up British nationality
-Submit completed application with fee
-Receive certificate stating that she is no longer a British national
Non-EEA partner:
-Applies online for an EEA family permit to the UKBA in his/her country (no fee, must submit biometric-augmented passport)
-On approval, partner receives passport returned with EEA Family Permit stamp
Once the couple enters the UK together, apply for the UK Residence Card
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:02 pm
by wiggsy
while in Ireland (even on holiday), why not setup as "self employed"... to then apply singh
See Bridged's comment here:
Register as Self Employed In Ireland
Note the following:
Also British: Only British
To clarify:
EEA National receives no stamp, it is the NON EEA National (US citizen) that gets the EEA Family Permit. - HOWEVER, US citizens DO NOT require a visa to enter the UK?
There is NO APPLICATION FEE. EEA FAMILY PERMITS MUST BE ISSUED FREE OF CHARGE.
Once couple enter uk, it is not mandatory to apply for EEA2, however, it will be pretty hard without the RC for the non-EEA... as employers will expect to see it.
Has your irish spouse lived / worked in a country other than UK before?
- sorry, i just reread your post...
Why give up british nationality?...
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:08 pm
by ClarkClarke
Hi, thanks for your fast reply. My soon to be spouse (we're getting married in mid October) has worked in N Ireland since 2000, before that she lived and worked in the Republic of Ireland. She has always held a British passport as she was born in England (she moved to Ireland when she was v young) But she has the ability to get an Irish passport as both her parents are Irish by birth.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:09 pm
by wiggsy
get proof of working in replublic of ireland, and apply directly for EEA FP.
they are a dual national who has excersised free movement, therefore Also British, Only British doesnt apply...
There is no need to renounce citizenship
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:11 pm
by ClarkClarke
We've been told that in order to get an EU permit as an Irish citizen living in the UK, then she has to give up the British passport and rely on the Irish one in order for the application to be successful.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:15 pm
by wiggsy
ClarkClarke wrote:We've been told that in order to get an EU permit as an Irish citizen living in the UK, then she has to give up the British passport and rely on the Irish one in order for the application to be successful.
Who told you this? this is wrong...
That only applys to Dual nationals who have not excersised their treaty rights to free movement.
It came around from the
McCarthy case, which states:
On those grounds, the Court (Third Chamber) hereby rules:
1. Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC, must be interpreted as meaning that that directive is not applicable to a Union citizen who has never exercised his right of free movement, who has always resided in a Member State of which he is a national and who is also a national of another Member State.
2. Article 21 TFEU is not applicable to a Union citizen who has never exercised his right of free movement, who has always resided in a Member State of which he is a national and who is also a national of another Member State, provided that the situation of that citizen does not include the application of measures by a Member State that would have the effect of depriving him of the genuine enjoyment of the substance of the rights conferred by virtue of his status as a Union citizen or of impeding the exercise of his right of free movement and residence within the territory of the Member States.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:15 pm
by ClarkClarke
Is there a time limit on how long ago that she worked in Southern Ireland, is 2000 not too long ago?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:19 pm
by wiggsy
ClarkClarke wrote:Is there a time limit on how long ago that she worked in Southern Ireland, is 2000 not too long ago?
Not that I know of... but all the same, your residing together now? - under EU law with a Stamp 4? or?
Register as Self Employed in Ireland, and once you get married... you meet the criteria of Surinder Singh.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:20 pm
by ClarkClarke
I see, thanks so much for clarifying that.
We've been told that by some Northern Irish people who used this route to get their non EU spouses in - being born in N Ireland allows them to have both passports - so they had to give the British one up and declare themselves Irish. I see now though that my fiancée's situation is different.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:28 pm
by ClarkClarke
We're not officially residing together yet. We intend to do so once married. My fiancée lives in N Ireland with her two young children from a previous marriage. This is the major reason why we need to settle together in the UK after we are married.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:48 pm
by EUsmileWEallsmile
The McCarthy case has caused a lot of uncertainty for people. Some are actively considering giving up one of their nationalities to get round the problem. The UK has taken a rather simplistic approach to McCarthy. It remains to be seen if case law clarifies matters.
The key point in all this is that a non-mobile EU citizen, ie one who has never exercised their right of free movement, cannot rely on EU law in their own country. The fact that they happen to happen to have another EU nationality can't be relied upon.
If the EU citizen moves to another EU country with their family members, they would be covered by freedom of movement rules.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:49 pm
by wiggsy
ClarkClarke wrote:We're not officially residing together yet. We intend to do so once married. My fiancée lives in N Ireland with her two young children from a previous marriage. This is the major reason why we need to settle together in the UK after we are married.
NOTE: somebody can be resident in two countries at the same time... Make your residing together "Formal".
@Kids from previous.
This is a massive problem (but not with the "official side") which affects "free movement". If it wasnt for my son with my Ex I would of moved a long time ago - but it has took me long enough to get the little bit of access I get now - If I move, I see that starting from the beginning again.
How are you in Ireland at the minute? - it could be tried for a "Durable Partners" FP? [however, if you have been in a relationship for less than 2 years (residing together) its pretty sure to fail...]