Immigrationboards.com

my first post here so hello

I'm EU national, been in UK since 2007 and I'm about to apply for Permanent Residence Certificate.
I have a worry about Comprehensive Insurance Section (CSI) in application form though. It states that for a period when I was a student I should've had CSI. The thing is, I was also working part time for all the time I was a student and paid NI contributions.

This is where it's unclear for me - if I was working while studying, was I required to get CSI? Or can I just ignore CSI section given the fact that I was also worker while I was a student?

If you were employed, even if only part-time throughout your student years, CSI wouldn't have been necessary. Welcome to the forum

As above, CSI is not needed. I for example was a full-time worker whilst doing a full-time MA and they correctly never requested me to show CSI for that period. You'll be fine!

thanks a lot for prompt answers!

did you mention on your permanent residence certificate applications that you were students?

I'm not sure if I should mention that at all to avoid any potential problems with CSI

I mentioned it in one brief sentence without giving too many details. Just said that I was also a student whilst being a worker but that this is irrelevant as my application is based on my worker status for which no CSI is required.

do you remember which section have you put that sentence in?

Section 9 A 1) Summary of the EEA national's activity. Wrote worker from 2011 and then put in brackets that I was also a student from 2013-2014 but that this is irrelevant for the purpose of this application. Was probably not necessary but just wanted to be honest as I will be using my MA degree for my AN application. Didnt fill in the student section in 9), thought this may confuse the poor caseworker too much

thanks a lot LilyLalilu

When filling PR form, shall I supply documents/employment/travel history since I entered UK or last 5 years?
e.g. I entered UK in 2007, shall I:
1. put enter date of 2007 and supply documents from 2007
2. put enter date of 2007 and supply documents from 2011
3. put enter date of 2011 and supply documents from 2011

?

If you're planning on naturalising as a citizen I'd go as far back as possible, that way hopefully HO will note down your date of PR over a year ago so you can go straight for citizenship.

Otherwise I guess it doesnt matter as long as the 5 year period is one where you were exercising treaty rights throughout. If you had a longer gap between jobs say one year ago I'd go for an earlier period where you had no gaps.

Eg in my case I worked the same job 2001-2009 with the first year as a spouse and 2002-2007 with an EEA permit, so I went for the earliest 5 year period I had P60s for because after that there was a 3 month gap in 2011 where I was volunteering between jobs and never signed on, which wouldn't have counted as exercising treaty rights.

is it possible at all to go straight to citizenship?

on work note though, I've been employed all the time I've been here. I also additionally worked as self-employed for a month while still being employed full time. Am I lawfully obliged to include this fact? I'd rather not as this would require additional documentation.

lesterburnham wrote:is it possible at all to go straight to citizenship?

on work note though, I've been employed all the time I've been here. I also additionally worked as self-employed for a month while still being employed full time. Am I lawfully obliged to include this fact? I'd rather not as this would require additional documentation.

Straight to citizenship from where?

You are required to supply material facts which you vouch for by signing the Declaration on application form.
The caseworker decides what is applicable.
Obviously if you don't have adequate supporting documentation the application or that part of it will be disregarded.

lesterburnham wrote:is it possible at all to go straight to citizenship?

No. On the EEA route you must get your DCPR (document certifying permanent residence) before applying for naturalisation, and unless married to a British Citizen you must have then held permanent residence for 12 months at least before applying for naturalisation. That doesn't mean you must have held the PR card 12 months as long as you submitted evidence going further than 5 years back when applying for PR.

noajthan wrote:
Straight to citizenship from where?

You are required to supply material facts which you vouch for by signing the Declaration on application form.
The caseworker decides what is applicable.
Obviously if you don't have adequate supporting documentation the application or that part of it will be disregarded.

I meant straight to citizenship without getting PR certificate now and having to wait another 12 months if I have documents proving I've been working in UK since 2007.

So, I've been working continuously since 2007 (full time and part-time, never less than 15hrs a week) but during that time I was also a full time student (4 years) and self employed (1 month to do contracting work over the weekends). I'm confused as to whether I need to mention that I was a student and self employed as it requires additional documentation and potential confusions around my PR application.

Would I be breaking the law (or causing myself potentially problems when applying for citizenship) if I just applied for PR as a worker supplying only evidence of employment, completely omitting my student and self employment history?

If you're applying as a worker you only need to supply evidence of work (e.g. employer letters, P60s etc) and residence. You can mention your student years but don't need to supply evidence, there is no point in doing that, just more stress for you and more paperwork than the caseworker needs. Provide sufficient evidence but also try to keep it light and simple and don't overthink the whole application, it's pretty straightforward if you were working throughout. I was doing multiple things at the same time but only provided the relevant evidence, it's not a problem.

lesterburnham wrote:

noajthan wrote:
Straight to citizenship from where?

You are required to supply material facts which you vouch for by signing the Declaration on application form.
The caseworker decides what is applicable.
Obviously if you don't have adequate supporting documentation the application or that part of it will be disregarded.

I meant straight to citizenship without getting PR certificate now and having to wait another 12 months if I have documents proving I've been working in UK since 2007

It is now one of the mandatory requirements for naturalisation for EEA nationals to submit a valid 'confirmation of PR' card (DCPR).

I worded this wrong, sorry. I know I need to get PR for naturalisation. I meant that if I supply documents dating back to 2007, according to this post:

Noetic wrote:If you're planning on naturalising as a citizen I'd go as far back as possible, that way hopefully HO will note down your date of PR over a year ago so you can go straight for citizenship.

PR might be dated over a year ago which would mean that I wouldn't have to wait another 12 months to apply for citizenship. Unless I misunderstood something?

lesterburnham wrote:I worded this wrong, sorry. I know I need to get PR for naturalisation. I meant that if I supply documents dating back to 2007, according to this post:

Noetic wrote:If you're planning on naturalising as a citizen I'd go as far back as possible, that way hopefully HO will note down your date of PR over a year ago so you can go straight for citizenship.

PR might be dated over a year ago which would mean that I wouldn't have to wait another 12 months to apply for citizenship. Unless I misunderstood something?

Yes that's the case.
Although inexperienced/poorly trained caseworkers still occasionally get that vital point wrong.

lesterburnham wrote: PR might be dated over a year ago which would mean that I wouldn't have to wait another 12 months to apply for citizenship. Unless I misunderstood something?

The DCPR will usually only have the issue date on it and after receiving the card you'd have to either do a subject access request or ask the NCS to check the date for you with the home office when you apply for naturalisation.

Make it as simple and straightforward as possible for the case worker as has been said before.

In my case I sent too much stuff, I got PR card on the basis of evidence starting 2001 (employer letter, plus P60s and pay slips from 2003 onwards plus tenancy letters, old marriage & divorce cert etc). because I have a 3 month gap where I was volunteering and helping some friends set up a company in 2010 so didn't sign on).

But while I got DCPR no problem in 2014, the section in my SAR docs about when I attained PR says "unknown". Thankfully as DCPR was dated as issued 2014 it shouldn't be a problem for HO and NCS were happy to accept the application but with hindsight I wish I'd stuck to sending them less stuff so I might have had a clear cut PR date in my records!

thanks a lot for answers, that's really helpful I'll fill my application without mentioning I was a student or worked as self employed in that case.

as for proving I worked during that period, do you think collection of p60s covering every year would be enough or should I include some payslips too?

lesterburnham wrote:thanks a lot for answers, that's really helpful I'll fill my application without mentioning I was a student or worked as self employed in that case.

as for proving I worked during that period, do you think collection of p60s covering every year would be enough or should I include some payslips too?

P60s are the neatest solution but if you have employment contracts or a letter from your employer that's always useful too.

lesterburnham wrote:thanks a lot for answers, that's really helpful I'll fill my application without mentioning I was a student or worked as self employed in that case.

as for proving I worked during that period, do you think collection of p60s covering every year would be enough or should I include some payslips too?

My understanding is that would be a mistake.
Read the declaration on the form by which you have to vouch for your information.

Suggest you provide the timeline of all activities plus a cogent paragraph spoonfeeding the caseworker by pointing out what you believe is the qualifying period. Submit your unimpeachable supporting evidence for that period.

Don't forget the caseworker may run crosschecks which flag up your carefree student days and/or periods of employment/self-employment.
Why set their spidey senses tingling unnecessarily.

Read the guidance on what to provide. Have you checked it out?

Yes, include payslips! Noone (in HO) is going to give you the benefit of doubt.

thanks noajthan, I gathered from others advice in this topic that submitting too much (evidence of employment, full time studies and month of self employment) might confuse worker (and cause more harm than good) rather than spoon-feed..

If I submit all evidence as you suggest, how should I point out what I think is qualifying period and avoid application being rejected due to not having Comprehensive Sickness Insurance when I was student?

As for evidence of employment, I thought p60s would contain enough info, am I wrong in that assumption? If so, should I submit all payslips?
This would be ok for last 5 years as I was paid monthly, but between 2007-2010 I was paid weekly, which would mean I would submit over 200 payslips altogether (52*3 for 2007-2010 and 12*5 for 2011-2016) - that sounds like overkill to me?

lesterburnham wrote:thanks noajthan, I gathered from others advice in this topic that submitting too much (evidence of employment, full time studies and month of self employment) might confuse worker (and cause more harm than good) rather than spoon-feed..

If I submit all evidence as you suggest, how should I point out what I think is qualifying period and avoid application being rejected due to not having Comprehensive Sickness Insurance when I was student?

As for evidence of employment, I thought p60s would contain enough info, am I wrong in that assumption? If so, should I submit all payslips?
This would be ok for last 5 years as I was paid monthly, but between 2007-2010 I was paid weekly, which would mean I would submit over 200 payslips altogether (52*3 for 2007-2010 and 12*5 for 2011-2016) - that sounds like overkill to me?

Members have reported success by including samples of payslips to complement their P60s.

The point is you want something in reserve if the caseworker chooses to disregard one particular document or other for some reason. Because they will make the decision based on what's submitted to them.

Don't give HO the Spam of 'wriggle room'! You don't want to risk one year being ignored if, say, one P60 contains some typo.

If you have some period in which you had two potential categories of qualifying activity going on (for example studying and working) then add a cogent paragraph in the additional info section of the form;
- highlight the qualifying period and the relevant category of qualified person.
Back it up with the necessary and unimpeachable documentary supporting evidence for your strongest category.

You won't have strong evidence to submit for the studies anyway because no CSI, so simply mention it in the timeline; no need to prove it.

For example, if working and studying (but without CSI) state that you acquired PR automatically due to exercising treaty rights as a worker (qualified person) from year x to year y.
If another category followed on (for a subsequent period) then refer to that too.

Accentuate the positive!

so are you suggesting I list all activities in section 9 (employment,studies and self employment) but only supply documentation backing my employment + write explanation in 9.9 (page 50) that I'd like my application to be based on my worker status as I worked without breaks (even when I was studying and was self-employed) since I arrived to UK?

that makes sense to supply example payslips - do you reckon 2 for each year (mid financial year and end of financial year) would be enough?