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Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:05 am
by Boxdale
So as the title says, we are contemplating entering the UK with my wife's article 10 residence card. I know this is legal, however we have our concerns as she has been given a family permit refusal.
I have been told on facebook she could be flagged and sent back? Has anyone any experience of this?
We preferably would like to go via eurotunnel/ferry, is this possible?
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:37 am
by Casa
What reason was given for refusing her FP?
Are you intending to enter under 'Surinder Singh'
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:45 am
by Boxdale
Casa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:37 am
What reason was given for refusing her FP?
Are you intending to enter under 'Surinder Singh'
We moved house and didn't change the address on my NIE and her residence card.
Yes we would be going under Surinder Singh.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:10 pm
by Boxdale
Anyone?
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:22 pm
by Casa
The refusal will flag up on the Border Officer's system and may well result in a refused entry. If your wife is fortunate and allowed to enter, once the in UK the subsequent application for a Resident Card is also likely to be rejected.
It would help if you could give a clearer background/timeline on your immigration route. For example, have you previously submitted a visa application for your wife under the UK Immigration Rules and had a refusal?
If the only reason for the EEA FP refusal was due to the failure to notify a change your address (in Spain?), then it may be wiser to re-apply with the updated documentation.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:07 pm
by Boxdale
Casa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:22 pm
The refusal will flag up on the Border Officer's system and may well result in a refused entry. If your wife is fortunate and allowed to enter, once the in UK the subsequent application for a Resident Card is also likely to be rejected.
It would help if you could give a clearer background/timeline on your immigration route. For example, have you previously submitted a visa application for your wife under the UK Immigration Rules and had a refusal?
If the only reason for the EEA FP refusal was due to the failure to notify a change your address (in Spain?), then it may be wiser to re-apply with the updated documentation.
We had a tourist visa refusal in 2010 from home country. This is the second refusal.
We have been resident in Spain since 2009 and have a 4 year old daughter.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:10 pm
by Sadat10
Please you people should stop giving false advice if you don't have any idea about a person's problem. No matter how many refusals you get, it does not affect your next application or sewking admission at the border. You just have to meet all the requirements at the time of seeking admission a the border. In your case you hold article 10 residence card and there should get an easy entry whilst with your husband. No stamp will even required whilst you hold this residence card as a family member. Don't let any one pollute your mind since they have not had experience there but all their claims are just based on conjectures. Good luck and gather all your documents that's all since it extremely rare that married couple would be turned away since border officials are supposed to give family members every reasonable opportunity to establish their relation even if without a passport . You can print their border force manual on the internet.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:21 pm
by observer_haters
Sadat10 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:10 pm
Please you people should stop giving false advice if you don't have any idea about a person's problem. No matter how many refusals you get, it does not affect your next application or sewking admission at the border. You just have to meet all the requirements at the time of seeking admission a the border. In your case you hold article 10 residence card and there should get an easy entry whilst with your husband. No stamp will even required whilst you hold this residence card as a family member. Don't let any one pollute your mind since they have not had experience there but all their claims are just based on conjectures. Good luck and gather all your documents that's all since it extremely rare that married couple would be turned away since border officials are supposed to give family members every reasonable opportunity to establish their relation even if without a passport . You can print their border force manual on the internet.
Agree !
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:30 pm
by Casa
In addition to the refusal due to no notification of change of address, was the following included in the refusal?
"23.9 ix. The British citizen is not exercising a Treaty right in a Member State (Surinder Singh)
‘You have applied for admission to the UK in accordance with Regulation 9 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 as the family member of a British national who has been / was previously working or self-employed in another Member State. However, in view of your failure to provide documentary evidence that the British citizen is / was working or self-employed in another Member State prior to returning to / coming to the UK, I am not satisfied that the Regulations apply in this case."
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:53 pm
by Boxdale
Casa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:30 pm
In addition to the refusal due to no notification of change of address, was the following included in the refusal?
"23.9 ix. The British citizen is not exercising a Treaty right in a Member State (Surinder Singh)
‘You have applied for admission to the UK in accordance with Regulation 9 of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 as the family member of a British national who has been / was previously working or self-employed in another Member State. However, in view of your failure to provide documentary evidence that the British citizen is / was working or self-employed in another Member State prior to returning to / coming to the UK, I am not satisfied that the Regulations apply in this case."
No. It doesn't say that.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:01 pm
by Casa
In which case if the only reason for refusal was due to the failure to notify the change of address, for peace of mind it may be worth re-applying for a FP before travelling. Although a FP doesn't guarantee a UK RC application will be approved, at least the previous entry refusal will have been resolved.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:09 pm
by Boxdale
Casa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:01 pm
In which case if the only reason for refusal was due to the failure to notify the change of address, for peace of mind it may be worth re-applying for a FP before travelling. Although a FP doesn't guarantee a UK RC application will be approved, at least the previous entry refusal will have been resolved.
Yeah I appreciate that. It means another year waiting. By the time we change her card. 3 months. Reapply another month. 6 months wait for decision. I need to get home for various reasons. My daughter needs to start school.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:15 am
by Boxdale
Any other opinions?
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:42 pm
by rydhwan
Hi,
I came in by ferry with my mrs who is on Irish GNIB aka residence card. We never applied for FP to come to UK as I had to move urgently due to not finding a suitable accommodation.
I knew at that time that there is at least 6 months to process the FP but I also knew that we can get in without it.
What I did that I printed all all documentation related to her Irish GNIB plus the card itself, got the UK documentation and some freedom of information cases related to EU residence card and why a couple can't really be refused as long as they proof that they have got EU residence card in lieu of article.
We weren't stopped by immigration officials however I have been told by some others who went from Ireland that they will give you a hassle and you might have to wait and there might be document checking and interview by the force but eventually if you have the documentation and FOA cases related and proof to the officer that you are not a danger to the UK public there should allow your Mrs.
Hope that helps.
Rydhwan
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:49 pm
by Casa
rydhwan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:42 pm
Hi,
I came in by ferry with my mrs who is on Irish GNIB aka residence card. We never applied for FP to come to UK as I had to move urgently due to not finding a suitable accommodation.
I knew at that time that there is at least 6 months to process the FP but I also knew that we can get in without it.
What I did that I printed all all documentation related to her Irish GNIB plus the card itself, got the UK documentation and some freedom of information cases related to EU residence card and why a couple can't really be refused as long as they proof that they have got EU residence card in lieu of article.
We weren't stopped by immigration officials however I have been told by some others who went from Ireland that they will give you a hassle and you might have to wait and there might be document checking and interview by the force but eventually if you have the documentation and FOA cases related and proof to the officer that you are not a danger to the UK public there should allow your Mrs.
Hope that helps.
Rydhwan
The difference in the OP's case is that a Family Permit to enter the UK has already been refused. If the spouse is able to enter the UK without a problem, the reason for the FP refusal won't just 'disappear' when the RC is applied for.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm
by rydhwan
One of the couples did have their FP refused and still came through....
However I don't know the technicality of their refusal of FP.
Regards,
Rizwan
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:55 pm
by Casa
rydhwan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm
One of the couples did have their FP refused and still came through....
However I don't know the technicality of their refusal of FP.
Regards,
Rizwan
My concern would be whether they were successful with their subsequent RC application once in the UK
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:05 pm
by rydhwan
Yes that is a possibility.
However reading through the OP case, he is British.
That means his case is quite similar to ours. British children, himself British with a spouse who is non EU.
We get a refusal due to Mrs circumventing immigration rules which is challenged in Court however the answer I received from Home office suggest that they want my Mrs to apply under UK immigration laws.
Further background on my case could be found in this post:
eea-route-applications/uk-residence-car ... 37188.html
I suggest OP to read this.
All the best.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:54 pm
by Boxdale
Casa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:55 pm
rydhwan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm
One of the couples did have their FP refused and still came through....
However I don't know the technicality of their refusal of FP.
Regards,
Rizwan
My concern would be whether they were successful with their subsequent RC application once in the UK
Casa, I have no problem fighting for the RC, I know we will probably get rejected and have to appeal. I'm fine with that. I just want advice about if it's ok to go with RC after a FP refusal. We will get in. That's it really
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:59 pm
by observer_haters
Casa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:55 pm
rydhwan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm
One of the couples did have their FP refused and still came through....
However I don't know the technicality of their refusal of FP.
Regards,
Rizwan
My concern would be whether they were successful with their subsequent RC application once in the UK
Our FP also has been refused. For the following reason
(Blind ECO did not see attached pictures, Skype, Line log etc...) We crossed the border with Dependant Ink Stamp 20 days later after refusal ...
I also have no problem fighting for the RC, I got plenty of time and power If something goes wrong
Application posted on 05/10/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on 06/10/2017
Payment taken: 06/10/2017
Home Office Email: 13/10/2017
Biometrics letter received: 20/10/2017 (dated 12/10/2017)
COA With Work: 31/10/2017 (dated 26/10/2017)
So far one month...
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:11 pm
by Casa
It would be helpful for others if you could update the forum with your progress.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:23 pm
by Boxdale
observer_haters wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:59 pm
Casa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:55 pm
rydhwan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm
One of the couples did have their FP refused and still came through....
However I don't know the technicality of their refusal of FP.
Regards,
Rizwan
My concern would be whether they were successful with their subsequent RC application once in the UK
Our FP also has been refused. For the following reason
(Blind ECO did not see attached pictures, Skype, Line log etc...) We crossed the border with Dependant Ink Stamp 20 days later after refusal ...
I also have no problem fighting for the RC, I got plenty of time and power If something goes wrong
Application posted on 05/10/2017
Received by UKVI/HO on 06/10/2017
Payment taken: 06/10/2017
Home Office Email: 13/10/2017
Biometrics letter received: 20/10/2017 (dated 12/10/2017)
COA With Work: 31/10/2017 (dated 26/10/2017)
So far one month...
The reason for your family permit refusal is as ridiculous as ours. Can't wait to see the back of the Tories. Thanks for posting mate!
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:47 am
by observer_haters
Do you think the RC application could be rejected due to the rejection of the FP application? With the reason for refusal FP that I have provided no photographic evidence of my marriage? I do not suspect they could be so "arrogant"!
BUT, nothing will surprise me, there work very well trained people towards how to rejecting the applications for silly reasons.
If this happens, the first thing that I do before any appeal.I will report the police about the intentional crime committed by ECO.
Fortunately, I have copies of the complete documentation with the list what kind of documents have been attached to the application for FP, where is also listed that pictures have been attached.... Each document signed by VFS Global worker.
Next will be Tribunal of course, and in the meantime, everything will send to Her Majesty the Queen
Theresa May, European and British parliament and wherever will be possible.
Only in case of course, if RC will be refused due to the rejection of the FP.
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:35 am
by Boxdale
observer_haters wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:47 am
Do you think the RC application could be rejected due to the rejection of the FP application? With the reason for refusal FP that I have provided no photographic evidence of my marriage? I do not suspect they could be so "arrogant"!
BUT, nothing will surprise me, there work very well trained people towards how to rejecting the applications for silly reasons.
If this happens, the first thing that I do before any appeal.I will report the police about the intentional crime committed by ECO.
Fortunately, I have copies of the complete documentation with the list what kind of documents have been attached to the application for FP, where is also listed that pictures have been attached.... Each document signed by VFS Global worker.
Next will be Tribunal of course, and in the meantime, everything will send to Her Majesty the Queen
Theresa May, European and British parliament and wherever will be possible.
Only in case of course, if RC will be refused due to the rejection of the FP.
What port of entry did you use OH? Ferry, eurotunnel?
Re: Entering UK using article 10 residence card after FP refusal
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:55 am
by Boxdale
Just thought I'd update.
We arrived via eurotunnel on Saturday. We did get stopped and asked to present our documents which they said we didn't present on our Family Permit application. The BO was surprised when I showed him what we did include in the application and commented that he couldn't believe we didn't get the FP.
It wasn't a great experience if I'm honest, but I would do it all again tomorrow in a heartbeat.
