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Hi there, your comments would be needed and advice appreciated as EEA FP got refused twice due to marriage of convenience. Obviously an appeal must be lodged as well as a complaint considered?

1 Refusal October 2011
<Our application guidance clearly indicates that you should submit a marriage certificate in support of your application. A marriage certificate is a fundamental part of my assessment in determining whether you qualify as a family member under the Immigration (EEA) Reg 2006. You married the EEA national in Egypt but you have not submitted the original Egyptian marriage certificate in support of your application.>

First marriage was registered in Egypt and then in EEA national's country. An original Lithuanian marriage certificate was enclosed with the application itself. The question is whether the certificate was lawfully treated as not valid?

<In addition to the above I am not satisfied that your relationship with the EEA national is not one of convenience for the purpose of facilitating your presence in Member States, including the UK. A marriage of convenience can reasonably be taken to refer to one that does not have substance. You have submitted some photographs as well as evidence that the EEA national has spent time in Egypt. This information indicates that you have met the EEA national but does not necessarily show a subsisting relationship before and since marriage.>

There were not some photos but about 70 of them in different times with non-EEA national's family, friends of both of them and on different occasions and in different places such as home, beach, museum, barbecue with family, etc.

The applicant and EEA national have known each other and lived together for 2 years so far, married for 1 year.

EEA national owns residential property in non-EEA nationals country and was a continuous resident there since 2007 - a year before meeting non-EEA national. Purchase-sale document for the apartment was with the EEA FP application itself. As well as her passport full of entry visas into Egypt and non-tourist resident visa. Yes there were no other documents that would indicate them having lived together as the applicant simply believed that shall not be so essential.

<There is not photographic evidence of your wedding day, for example and there is no evidence that you have lived with the EEA national in either Egypt or Lithuania.>

Does the absence of wedding photos suggests it to be a marriage of convenience and is it such an essential evidence at all?

<Within four months of you arrival in Lithuania the EEA national had moved to live and work in the UK. There is limited evidence before me to show that your marriage can be considered as one of substance since your decision to relocate to Lithuania and since the EEA national’s decision to leave Lithuania without you.>


Due to unstable economic and political situation in Egypt EEA family member went back to her country three months after what a non-EEA family member joined her there and later on applied and was issued with Lithuanian RC upon the end of his lawful 3 months stay as per his Shengen visa. Three months after EEA national relocated to the UK and having started working there shortly decided to settle in the UK. Why "without you"? Simply because both applicant and EEA national were aware of the need of EEA FP enabling to travel without any issues on the Borders so she wished to be exercising her Treaty Rights in the UK first.

<It is also reasonable to say that a relationship of substance includes the ability to communicate with your partner or spouse. The evidence before me indicates that you and the EEA national attempt to converse in English. However, attempts to speak to both you and the EEA national in English indicate that you or the EEA national have a basic command of English adding doubts to whether there is substance to your relationship.>

Funnily no one spoke to neither the applicant nor his spouse to assess whether their English is sufficient or not. There might be some copies of skype chats between them enclosed with the application which might have contained spelling/grammar mistakes but I believe that shall not be the substantial in assessing ones language level?

<Given that I am satisfied you are party to a marriage of convenience for the purpose of facilitating your presence in Member States, as well facilitating your intention to work, I am not satisfied you have a reasonable claim to being a family member under Reg 7. For the reasons outlined above I am not satisfied you qualify for an EEA FP under Reg 12. Your application is therefore refused.>

"facilitating your intention to work" - as an EEA national's family member non-EEA national is eligible to work in the UK without restrictions if both legally resident in the UK. Shall that be something what non-EEA national must not be intending to do after joining his EEA family member in the UK?

2 Refusal November 2011

The application was accompanied by detailed list of classified documents, non-EEA national's statement of 5 pages explaining and giving answers to the issues as per first refusal. And detailing all enclosed supporting documents and asking to arrange an interview with him. Many other documents that were not with the first application were enclosed now.

<From the information before me, I am not satisfied that your relationship with the EEA national is not one of convenience for the purpose of facilitating your presence in Member States, including the UK. A marriage of convenience can reasonably be taken to refer to one that does not have substance. You have submitted photographs as well as evidence that the EEA national has spent time in Egypt. This information indicates that you have met the EEA national but does not necessarily show a subsisting relationship before and since marriage. There is no evidence that you have lived with the EEA national in either Egypt or Lithuania.>

"There is no evidence that you have lived with the EEA national in either Egypt or Lithuania" indeed there were these documents with relevant translations - what do they mean there was NO evidence?:

for Egypt
EEA national's documents proving she is an owner of the apartment in Egypt at which they both lived before and after the marriage.
EEA national's gas bill
non-EEA national's water bill
Landlord's letter confirming them both registered at the same address
non-EEA national's rent agreements for business premises one of which indicated his address mutual with EEA national's
---
for Lithuania
Bank statements for both
Certificates about the declared place of residence at Local Council
Note for non-EEA national about received foreign post in his name at the Post Office detailing his address etc

Note: all similar documents to the above are absolutely limited and not usually common in both countries

Plus about 10 letters from different mutual friends declaring they have known them as a couple living together before and after the marriage.

<Within four months of your arrival in Lithuania the EEA national had moved to live and work in the UK. There is limited evidence before me to show that your marriage can be considered as one of substance since your decision to relocate to Lithuania and since the EEA national’s decision to leave Lithuania without you.>

<Given that I am satisfied you are party to a marriage of convenience for the purpose of facilitating your presence in Member States, as well facilitating your intention to work, and settle outside your country of nationality, as declared in your statement dated … . I am not satisfied you have a reasonable claim to being a family member under Regul 7. For the reasons outline above I am not satisfied you qualify for an EEA FP under Reg 12. Your application is therefore refused.>

"settle outside your country of nationality" - it seams facts are overturned against as the applicant actually intends to settle inside the same country as his EEA family member wishes to and has a right of free movement to and so he actually intends to settle and live together (as they are married and committed to each other)which was many times declared in the statement of both of them.

<I therefore refuse your EEA FP appl because I am not satisfied that you meet all of the requirements of Regulation 12 of the Immigration (EEA) Reg 2006.>

To sum up I shall note that the marriage is obviously questioned because of the difference in age (he is 30, she is 57) hence they see no substance of it. But provided they had enclosed maximum of available documents confirming their cohabitation I would believe an EEA FP shall have been issued as per 2nd application.

Thank you for your assistance in advance.

I know it is a lot for reading but please any comments? Thank u

They seem to have summed up very clearly how they perceive the situation with regard to the relationship and those are the issues you have to address. So, all you can do now is exactly what you have already suggested in the second sentence of your thread: appeal and complain. Or you can re-apply with more and better evidence than you have previously provided (if you have any). Good luck.

I do not know what evidence you submitted. Sometimes it is better to submit less evidence. More evidence can be confusing for the IO and can obscure the essential nature of the relationship. (This applies to forum postings too!)

Do you still have the original Egyptian marriage certificate?
How did you get the Lithuanian marriage certificate?

Thank you for replying. It is not about me. I helped close friends directing what they have to apply for and which documents they shall enclose.

First time they missed half of documents related to cohabiting. Second time the documents listed in my first post where enclosed. I believe they were not too much but enough to prove people did live together before and after the marriage in both countries. However the answer is "no evidence that you have lived together in either country"....

Yes they have Egyptian marriage certificate and it was with the 2nd application. When your marriage is registered abroad you have to register your marriage in the country of your residence as well. Upon what a Lithuanian version of marriage certificate was issued. As it is a proper marriage certificate I therefore doubt they rejected it lawfully 1st time?

[quote="waterlillies"]Thank you for replying. It is not about me. I helped close friends directing what they have to apply for and which documents they shall enclose.

First time they missed half of documents related to cohabiting. Second time the documents listed in my first post where enclosed. I believe they were not too much but enough to prove people did live together before and after the marriage in both countries. However the answer is "no evidence that you have lived together in either country"....

Yes they have Egyptian marriage certificate and it was with the 2nd application. When your marriage is registered abroad you have to register your marriage in the country of your residence as well. Upon what a Lithuanian version of marriage certificate was issued. As it is a proper marriage certificate I therefore doubt they rejected it lawfully 1st time?[/quote]

Were your close friend invited to an interview? If so, they may have been able to explain their circumstances. If not, then they should be able to ask for one.

"Investigation of marriage of convenience cases
Where you suspect that the applicant is party to a marriage of convenience, you should invite the applicant and if possible, the EEA national sponsor, to attend an interview. If you are still not satisfied that there is sufficient evidence of a  relationship then you should refuse the EEA Family Permit"

Did they breach the rules not arranging an appointment although applicant and his eea both asked for this in their statements when applying the second time?

When refusing their first application was the ECO right commenting applicants use basic command of the English language although no one had spoken to any of them in any language a word?

Would you please advise where to complain?

waterlillies wrote:"Investigation of marriage of convenience cases
Where you suspect that the applicant is party to a marriage of convenience, you should invite the applicant and if possible, the EEA national sponsor, to attend an interview. If you are still not satisfied that there is sufficient evidence of a  relationship then you should refuse the EEA Family Permit"

Did they breach the rules not arranging an appointment although applicant and his eea both asked for this in their statements when applying the second time?

When refusing their first application was the ECO right commenting applicants use basic command of the English language although no one had spoken to any of them in any language a word?

Would you please advise where to complain?

You should definitely complain.

I have a link to the complaints page of UKBA on http://eumovement.wordpress.com/eu-coun ... d-kingdom/

It is in the section Useful information for EU citizens and their families

hi everyone,

please can someone send me a link where i can sent the letter of my complain?
today my husband has refused his application (eea family member) he had his 2nd interview. They were very nasty to him and they said, that im not given enough evidence that im exercising my treaty right in UK!!!! well, i have been here 7years!!!!!! i have given them payslips, contract and they have even contacted me at the office and spoke to me about my husband 2 weeks ago.....

i have sent to Istanbul and Ankara to the uk embassy a very strong letter. they throw the passport to my husband to say: YOUR VISA IS REFUSED.

we have given them everything and when he was there at 1st time they were very pleased with him and they said to him, that how good he knows his wife!!!!

now this???!!! what is going on??!!! i will go to press if they dont issue him!!!

Did they give him nothing in writing explaining the reason for the refusal?

no,. only paper to appeal.

They are required to give him detailed reasons for the refusal. I suggest you read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... fectively/

Contact Solvit immediately.

I would also complain directly to the embassy, making clear that you were not given a written reason for the refusal (contrary to the requirements under EU law).

ok, sorry. i just spoke to my husband and he is very upset.

he said:
they gave him the paper to say, my documents were enough (my payslip, my contract) to prove that im working in UK.
they said, we did not mentioned that he was married before - yes we did not as on the online application there is no collum for this.
they said, they dont believe in our marrige - meet last year in summer, since them meet 5x, given them pictures they said not enough proof, we got married this year in july.

provided them with phone bills, different pictures, marrige certificate, marrige pictures, ect.....

this is none sense!!!

Have him send you a copy of the written refusal letter. Please tell us exactly what it says.

Have you lived together anywhere?

he has his interview only today. he also said he has got a stamp on his passport to say visa refused.

I have spoken to a lady at British Consulate in Istanbul and send over a very strong letter. including the below:

I was flying out to see him every 3-4 month and in summer i was with him over 2 weeks living with his family.

EUN2.4 What are the requirements for issuing an EEA family permit?
In assessing an application, the ECO should be satisfied that:

the applicant is the family member of the EEA national (marriage certificate, birth certificate or other evidence of family link)
the EEA national is residing in the UK in accordance with the EEA Regulations (as qualified person if more than 3 months) and the non-EEA national is joining them; or the EEA national intends to travel to the UK within 6 months and will have a right to reside under the Regulations on arrival, and the non-EEA national will be accompanying or joining the EEA national; and
if applying as a spouse or civil partner, there are no grounds to consider that the marriage or civil partnership is one of convenience (see Annex ….); and
if applying as dependent family members (dependent children 21 and over and dependent relatives) they are dependent on the EEA national or the EEA national's spouse or civil partner; and
neither the applicant nor the EEA national should be excluded from the UK on the grounds of public policy, public security or public health.

My friends insisted on trying 3rd time instead of appealing. enclosed a complaint with an application. ok now they asked the applicant for an interv iew as per his request in the complaint but the appl has been refused again. not yet sure about the exact statements of the refusal letter. however it is more than abnormal already...

By the way is there still any legal aid for immigration?

honestly, i think they got an ORDER for the government to do this. after all these issue with HO.

i even found a webiste where people are against immigration. the funny thing is that they should have a bit stronger law for their colonial countries as those are the countries who are coming over on fake visas, or marriages, or to say that they are here to study then after 1 year they leave the uni.
they have no problem at all.
people who are in a genniue relationship suck it all!!!

my friend is married with a turkish guys, but they were together 5 years before that, she even lived there...still refused!!!!

mmm, i just noted! the funny thing is that they never send back the application to my husband to request more documents.
now on their statement it says, not enough document. if you go on world bridge webbsite with your tracking number, it says, you can receive 13 notifiactions and between this it says: more documents requested!!!

how funny! they called him in for 2 interview and they never ever mentioned anything like that!!!!

i have also found the followings:

FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT IN THE EU
Where visa is required: "member States sahl gran such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

There is NO legal requirement that:
the Eu citizen is already (or will be) living or working in a different EU member state
The non EU family member holds a specific immigratin visa or status. It is fine for them ot have a nationally issued visa or a student visa or a visitors visa or even implied status.
The family member apply in their country of origin
The family member resides or preiviously resided in the Eu/EEA (this older require of some memeber states was overturned in severalECJ cases, especially Metock)


There is also NO legal requirement that you submint
bank statement
pay slip
letters from your present or future employer or shcool
letters of reference
proff that you will return at the end of the tirp
airline tickets
confimed hotel bookings
references or gurarnatees from people in the destination country


The ONLY four grounds for rejecting a visa application are:
1.public health ( serious contagious disese)
2. national security
3. (big) public policy
4. the marrige was done solely for getting the visa

They cannot reject an application because you did not provide eg, banks statemet, hotel reservation.

[/b][/u]

waterlillies wrote:My friends insisted on trying 3rd time instead of appealing. enclosed a complaint with an application. ok now they asked the applicant for an interv iew as per his request in the complaint but the appl has been refused again. not yet sure about the exact statements of the refusal letter. however it is more than abnormal already...

By the way is there still any legal aid for immigration?

ok I still have some questions:
1) Can we ask for a copy of the report of the interview (as their statements about it does not correspond to what was actually asked and answered)? And if yes so on what grounds can we ask for that copy?
2) "The photographs and supporting documents are evidence of cohabitation and show that you have spent time together with the EEA national and with both your and her friends and family, but they do not demonstrate that the marriage you have entered into is based on a relationship of substance" - "relationship of substance" is this a relevant criteria applied for refusing an application?
3) They are absolutely mad about the complaint submitted and struggle to find out who helped the applicant with all written correspondence (statement and complaint) due to the immigration knowledge expressed and quoted in all correspondence and they are not happy thinking that a third party helped with complaint and statement despite the applicant explaining he was helped with only expressions, stylistics and grammar of the English language and that internet, forums and ukba websites are full with immigration regulations, comments, etc and that everyone have access to them and also right to any - professional or non professional advise from friends, family or whoever. - What would be your comments on this?

tina79 wrote:honestly, i think they got an ORDER for the government to do this. after all these issue with HO. <...>

due to the number of applications refused all around and the same reason "marriage of convenience" i have such feeling about "orders" as well...

waterlillies wrote:3) They are absolutely mad about the complaint submitted and struggle to find out who helped the applicant with all written correspondence (statement and complaint) due to the immigration knowledge expressed and quoted in all correspondence and they are not happy thinking that a third party helped with complaint and statement despite the applicant explaining he was helped with only expressions, stylistics and grammar of the English language and that internet, forums and ukba websites are full with immigration regulations, comments, etc and that everyone have access to them and also right to any - professional or non professional advise from friends, family or whoever. - What would be your comments on this?

Who is "they"? What exactly did they say?

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote: Who is "they"? What exactly did they say?

ECO upon refusing 3rd application.
ECO was absolutely stressed and and nervous after reading the complaint and during the interview more struggling to know who helped the applicant with correspondence (complaint itself and statement-covering letter for application). Most questions during the interview were asked about who prepared the documents not about their relationship or substance of marriage at all.

what i can say is, if you are following the news, 2-3days now all the EU countries are in Brussel to discuss the EU future, meaning the "treaty rights". As DC still has not decided which way UK will go, i bet, the immigration holding back the EU applications for this reason.

the refusal that they have given to us is against the law and when I spoke to the UK embassy in Instanbul I have told them and they asked me to fax the complain letter. I think even they know they are wrong, they sill need to find excuses until DC will finally make up his mind.
Thanks to God my husband can join in me in my home country for xmas with his schengen visa and while we are there together we will apply again.

we provided them more then 15 pictures before and after our marriage. they still say, we are not long enough together to see that this is true love!!! OMG!

My friend met her husband on internet, meet up 3x times, after 6 month they got married. My other friend has has wife from Dominica, meet up 3 times, after 8month got married, my brother met his wife in March next year in August they got married....and guess what...all of them are happily living together over 3-5years...but i know people who r in UK married for visa and living separate since the day got married....so how is this work??!!!

CO upon refusing 3rd application.
ECO was absolutely stressed and and nervous after reading the complaint and during the interview more struggling to know who helped the applicant with correspondence (complaint itself and statement-covering letter for application). Most questions during the interview were asked about who prepared the documents not about their relationship or substance of marriage at all.

my husband english is very good as he used to live in IRL. he can write and speak perfectly. but they were questioning him about the online application as well in fact they asked him if he does understand english or he needs translation after 15min conversation....