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Retention right of residence with child custody
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:15 am
by ibi1975
I am non EAA national, was married for less than 2 years to a German National with 5 years old child.
I got my residence card on 2008.
EAA national and child got both registration certificates.
I have a Divorce certificate (Decree Absolute)
I have shared custody order from court with contact has to take place in UK
I have been Working Full time non stop since obtaining the residence card on 2008
The child is going to school.
I would like to apply to retain my right of residence.
Please advice:
What application or form shall I have to use?
Do I have to write a support letter attached to the application? if yes, what shall I state in it?
What documents do I have to provide apart from my pass, the child's pass, the child's birth certificate, decree absolute, court order confirming custody, my payslips, my certificate of employment?
Do I have to get a comprehensive health insurance?
Please advice about any other things related to my matter, my case is streightforward, I do not think I will need a solicitor.
Please help
Thanks
Re: Retention right of resience with child custody
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:08 am
by bobobo
ibi1975 wrote:I am non EAA national, was married for less than 2 years to a German National with 5 years old child.
I got my residence card on 2008.
EAA national and child got both registration certificates.
I have a Divorce certificate (Decree Absolute)
I have shared custody order from court with contact has to take place in UK
I have been Working Full time non stop since obtaining the residence card on 2008
The child is going to school.
I would like to apply to retain my right of residence.
Please advice:
What application or form shall I have to use?
You can use the EEA2 form or send a covering letter explaining the situation
Do I have to write a support letter attached to the application? if yes, what shall I state in it?
If you attach the CL then please state what has happened and what you are applying for along with a list of docs that you are sending them
What documents do I have to provide apart from my pass, the child's pass, the child's birth certificate, decree absolute, court order confirming custody, my payslips, my certificate of employment?
Marriage certificate maybe, some prooof of the spouse exercising treaty rights during the marriage, especially from the time youapplied for divorce until the time the decree absolute was grantedDo I have to get a comprehensive health insurance?
Please advice about any other things related to my matter, my case is streightforward, I do not think I will need a solicitor.
I wouldnt think so, if you ahve all docs then best aapply yourself
Please help
Thanks
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:10 am
by bobobo
and no you dont need CIS if you/Ex Spouse have been exercising treaty rights in UK.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:13 pm
by ibi1975
Thanks very much, that is clear !
Say i have got the right of retain:
If i marry a non eaa national and i want to bring her over to uk, is that possible? What application form i have to use?
Also
If i want to bring my mother over to help me looking after the child, i am financially responsable of her and have proof. Is that possible too? And what form i have to use?
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:16 pm
by ibi1975
U forgot to answer this one)?
Do i need a comprehensive health insurane covering me and my eaa child?
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:41 pm
by bobobo
I did answer the question about CIS.
You cannot get married to a Non EEA national and get them to UK as you have just retained your rights, until you get PR or British Nationality you yourself will not be able to sponsor anyone.
You suddenly get divorced and then get married again will raise some eyebrows as well, considering the fact that you have just qualified for RoR based on a kid that you had with the EEA spouse.
ibi1975 wrote:U forgot to answer this one)?
Do i need a comprehensive health insurane covering me and my eaa child?
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:00 pm
by ibi1975
Thanks for that! But i dont think i will need to provide
some prooof of the spouse exercising treaty rights during the marriage, especially from the time I applied for divorce until the time the decree absolute was granted, why?
Because she will not be helpful providing me with that as she is not my wife anymore
Will it be a problem ?
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:05 pm
by bobobo
This is one of the requirements that needs to be satisfied if you wish to appy for RoR. You need to prove that the EEA spouse was exercising treaty rights during the time of your marriage.
No Proof = No RoR
ibi1975 wrote:Thanks for that! But i dont think i will need to provide
some prooof of the spouse exercising treaty rights during the marriage, especially from the time I applied for divorce until the time the decree absolute was granted, why?
Because she will not be helpful providing me with that as she is not my wife anymore
Will it be a problem ?
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:13 pm
by ibi1975
That was already been proven before as i do have already a 5 years resident card in my passport.
I do not agree with u.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:42 pm
by Jambo
ibi1975 wrote:That was already been proven before as i do have already a 5 years resident card in my passport.
I do not agree with u.
What you have proved is that the spouse was exercising treaty rights
at the time of the application but that could have been a few years back. The spouse might have stopped exercising treaty rights the day after you applied for RC.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:46 pm
by ibi1975
In a retention its ME who has to prove self suffiency and not the EAA ex!
Open ur eyes!
6.1 Retention of the right of residence following divorce or annulment of marriage/dissolution of civil partnership
A person who ceases to be a family member of a qualified person on termination of a marriage or civil partnership will retain a right of residence if:
• the marriage or partnership lasted for at least three years immediately before the initiation of proceedings for divorce, annulment or dissolution, and
• the parties to the marriage or civil partnership had resided in the UK for at least one year during the duration of the marriage or civil partnership, or
• the former spouse or civil partner of the qualified person has custody of the children or a right of access to the children in the UK, or
• there are particularly difficult circumstances (such as domestic violence) justifying the retention of the right of residence.
In such circumstances a family member retains a right of residence if:
(a) S/heisanon-EEAnationalbutispursuingactivitywhichwouldmake him/her a worker or a self-employed person if s/he were an EEA national,
(b) S/heisaself-sufficientperson,or
(c) S/heisthefamilymemberofapersonintheUKwhoiseitheraworker,
self-employed, or is a self-sufficient person.
See Regulation 10(5) of the 2006 Regulations for more information.
And open ur eyes again!
5.4.5 Making an application on the basis that the non-EEA national has custody of the child
The following documents must be supplied:
Passports of the non-EEA family members
Divorce certificate/termination of partnership certificate
Birth cert of child confirming relationship
Court Order confirming custody
Evidence that at least one of the non-EEA family members is a worker, self-
employed, or economically self-sufficient*.
*If the only activity undertaken is as a student then they will not qualify, unless the
student has sufficient resources to be self-sufficient.
If we have not previously issued a Residence Card we must be satisfied that the alleged EEA national is an EEA national and that the non-EEA nationals were living in the UK with the EEA national prior to divorce/termination of civil partnership, and that EEA was exercising Treaty rights during that time.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:58 pm
by Obie
I believe OP is correct. He is not required to demonstrate his former spouse was a qualified person on termination of marriage.
However he is required to produce a court order stating the access must take place in the UK, and he has to demonstrate he is a worker or self-employed person.
If the court has not ruled the contact must take place within the UK jurisdiction, it will be difficult to see a successful application.
I find it quite interesting that OP is asking questions to which, to all intense and purposes he has the answers to.
The provision for divorce couple who are applying on the basis of breakdown of marriage after 3 years, is different to that of people applying on the basis of access to child under 18, or custody of the EEA nationals child or children.
SEE Regulation 10
Just to say, tone down your language. People are only seeking to help you, they are not paid for this. Please bear that in mind
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:03 pm
by ibi1975
Gime 5 obie! U r the master!!!! This case is closed
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:16 pm
by ibi1975
Just for ur info obie:
The term custody is not used anymore in court, now we say a residence order instead of custody order .
I have a shared and not full residence order that means the child os shared equally between both parents.
U can talk only about access order if the non eaa has not custody.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:18 pm
by Obie
ibi1975 wrote:Just for ur info obie:
The term custody is not used anymore in court, now we say a residence order instead of custody order .
I have a shared and not full residence order that means the child os shared equally between both parents.
U can talk only about access order if the non eaa has not custody.
As we are referring to the provision of the Citizen directive, i believe it was right for me to use the language of the directive, which is custody.
I am sure there will be different languages used within the memberstates.
I know there is a distinction between parent who have custody or as your put it Residence Order, and Parents who have Access Rights, or as you put it Access order.
I did distinguish them in my post. For the later , i mentioned you will need the court to confirm there is access and such access must take place in the UK. In the former there is no such requirements.
I am sure you know all this, so it is all academic.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:22 pm
by ibi1975
Well answered obie! Thanks very much for ur assistance!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:01 am
by Obie
bobobo, i have expressed my displeasure at OP's post and asked him to tone it done.
I understand your frustration, but using obscene language does not help the forum, and it is offensive to forum rules.
I have therefore decided to delete the offensive portion of your post and also delete OP's offensive post too.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:08 pm
by ibi1975
Obie wrote:bobobo, i have expressed my displeasure at OP's post and asked him to tone it done.
I understand your frustration, but using obscene language does not help the forum, and it is offensive to forum rules.
I have therefore decided to delete the offensive portion of your post and also delete OP's offensive post too.
These bambo and bobobo they need to get a life, they r so stupid they do not know what they r talking about, missleading people with their stupid answers, pretending to be the experts, get a life both of u)
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:52 pm
by Obie
I have warned you through various medium to sling your hook.
Jambo and Bobobo were seeking to help you. There is no reason to be so rude and offensive towards them.
Furthermore I have read the vast majority of their posts and i hardly find any problem with them.
The vast majority of people who come to the forum for advice are divorced couple, who are seeking advice on the basis of 3 years of marriage. Your case is a rare one, so they could be excused for thinking you need to show you wife was a qualified person.
The few error they made in their reply to your case does not make them stupid or unworthy of being appreciated for their great contribution, or merit so much barrage of insult.
Again if you know a lot, dont come to the forum.
Furthermore, UKBA will not be wrong if they require to show that your ex was exercising treaty right up to the time the Contact order was issued.
Their guidance indicates, such is not their practice, but in the language of Regulation 15(1f) such requirement is not precluded.
If you remember the use to issue PR to people who apply for ROR, until they recently changed.
Take this as a last warning
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:30 pm
by ibi1975
Obie wrote:I have warned you through various medium to sling your hook.
Jambo and Bobobo were seeking to help you. There is no reason to be so rude and offensive towards them.
Furthermore I have read the vast majority of their posts and i hardly find any problem with them.
The vast majority of people who come to the forum for advice are divorced couple, who are seeking advice on the basis of 3 years of marriage. Your case is a rare one, so they could be excused for thinking you need to show you wife was a qualified person.
The few error they made in their reply to your case does not make them stupid or unworthy of being appreciated for their great contribution, or merit so much barrage of insult.
Again if you know a lot, dont come to the forum.
Furthermore, UKBA will not be wrong if they require to show that your ex was exercising treaty right up to the time the Contact order was issued.
Their guidance indicates, such is not their practice, but in the language of Regulation 15(1f) such requirement is not precluded.
If you remember the use to issue PR to people who apply for ROR, until they recently changed.
Take this as a last warning
I appologise !
ADVICE
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:39 pm
by nonspecifics
Jambo and Bobobo have helped a lot of people.
When they answered so many questions, and given so much helpful advice and support, then of course sometimes they have occasionally made mistakes. They are only human; everyone makes mistakes.
Jambo, Bobobo and the others who have taken the time to share their knowledge, experiences and given moral support on this forum deserve a lot of thanks for their efforts.
Well done and thank you!