when can I apply citizenship for child on settlement visa

[satish333]

Hi there,
My family came to UK 1 year ago on settlement visa.

when can I apply citizenship for my child aged 14 now (ofcourse after getting ILR) ?

And I believe I can apply citizenship to my wife after getting ILR + after completion of 1 year from then ?

Thanks

[CR001]

Set(M) form Guidance notes say :

5 WHEN TO APPLY
You and any children under 18 who are applying
with you should apply before the end of your/their
permitted stay in the UK when you are nearing
completion of the 2-year qualifying period required
by the Immigration Rules.

Your wife needs to be resident in the UK for 3 years exactly before she can apply for citizenship.

[satish333]

Hi CR001,
Thanks for ur reply...

Could u let me know when exactly My wife and child1 (14 years ) , Child 2 ( 10 Years) can apply for Citizenship who are on settlement visa for the last 1 year ?

Info:
1. I am British Citizenship by Naturalisation rocess
2. My wife and children are on settlement visa

Many thanks in advance
Raj

Set(M) form Guidance notes say :

5 WHEN TO APPLY
You and any children under 18 who are applying
with you should apply before the end of your/their
permitted stay in the UK when you are nearing
completion of the 2-year qualifying period required
by the Immigration Rules.

Your wife needs to be resident in the UK for 3 years exactly before she can apply for citizenship.

[satish333]

HI All,

My wife and children (born outside of UK) under 18 years of age came to UK, 2 years ago on Spouse visa and have got ILR recently.

1. When Can I apply citizenship for my children aged under 18 yrs ?
2. what form do I need to use for it ?


many thanks in advance

Raj

[Jambo]

See Q1 & Q2 in Citizenship FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - children.

[satish333]

Hi All,
Apologies for more & more below information :

Info:
1. I got ILR in 2006 after completing 4 years in UK on work permit visa
2. got Naturalised as a british citizen in 2008.

Question 1: Would I be correct in thinking that my status is ‘British Citizen Otherwise than by descent’ ?

Info:
3. **My children aged 14 & 10 were born in India before I got ILR status **
4. My wife and children came to UK on spouse visa are living in the UK for the last 2 years

Question 2: Can I pass on British citizenship to my children who were born in India before I got ILR ?

Question 3.1: If the answer is ‘Yes’ to question 2, Can I apply British passport for children straight away ?

Question 3.2: If the answer is ‘No’ to question 2, Can I register my children as British citizens without apply ILR once my wife gets ILR status ?

[Jambo]

1. Yes.
2. No.
3.2. No. They should have ILR.

Read the FAQ.

[satish333]

1. Yes.
2. No.
3.2. No. They should have ILR.

Read the FAQ.

Thanks for your reply....

Could you please advice on the below queries...with regards to my original post above

Q1. Can I register my children as BC once they get ILR (they will be completing only 2 year stay in UK by then) ?
Q2 OR do I need to wait for 1 more year after getting ILR (they will be completing only 3 year stay in UK by then ) ?
Q3. Is there any advantage with Q2 over Q1 ?

MN1 guide has many sections and none of them applicale to my status 'British citizen Otherwise than by descent'

Q4. could you tell me what section number do I need to fill in the application if I choose Q1 route ( i.e just after getting ILR i.e only after 2years stay in UK) ?
Q5. could you tell me what section number do I need to fill in the application if I choose Q2 route (i.e after getting ILR and waiting 1 more year in UK ) ?

Many thanks in advance

Raj

[satish333]

HI All

Could you please advice on the below queries...

Information : I (father ) am 'British citizen Otherwise than by descent' and my children born in India before I got ILR status

Q1. Can I register my children under 16 yrs as British Citizen once they get ILR ? ( they will be completing only 2 year stay in UK by then) ? OR
Q2 Do I need to wait for 1 more year after getting ILR for them (they will be completing 3 year stay in UK by then ) ?
Q3. Is there any advantage with Q2 over Q1 ?

MN1 guide has many sections and none of them applicale to my ( Father ) status 'British citizen Otherwise than by descent'

Q4. could I ask you what section number do I need to fill in the application if I choose Q1 route ( i.e just after getting ILR i.e only after 2years stay in UK) ?
Q5. could I ask what section number do I need to fill in the application if I choose Q2 route (i.e after getting ILR and waiting 1 more year in UK ) ?

Many thanks in advance

Raj

[vinny]

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Application will be based on section 3(1) of the BNA. Fill in the MN1 form appropriately.
5. Application will be based on section 3(1) of the BNA. Fill in the MN1 form appropriately.

[satish333]

1. Yes.
2. No.
3. No.
4. Application will be based on section 3(1) of the BNA. Fill in the MN1 form appropriately.
5. Application will be based on section 3(1) of the BNA. Fill in the MN1 form appropriately.

Thanks Vinny...
Somebody was saying that
1. children will be registered as 'British citizen by descent' if i choose Q1 route (children will be completing 2 years stay in Uk) where as
2. if i choose Q2 route (children will be completing 3 years stay in Uk) children will be registered as 'British citizen otherwise than by descent'

I am not sure whether this information is correct or not.

Q1 Do they get 'British citizen otherwise than by descent' status if I register them in Q1 route i.e just after completing 2 years stay in UK ? I wish them to get this status.

Many thanks in advance
Raj

[vinny]

Neither parents were British when these children were born. So, they cannot be British by descent.

The registrations will be under section 3(1) of the BNA because they were born outside the UK. I think they will be British otherwise than by descent (9.1.8). There is no difference between 4 and 5.

[satish333]

Neither parents were British when these children were born. So, they cannot be British by descent.

The registrations will be under section 3(1) of the BNA because they were born outside the UK. I think they will be British otherwise than by descent (9.1.8). There is no difference between 4 and 5.

Thank you Vinny

[charismatic_one]

Hi,

I have been following this forum for few years now and have had a lot of benefits from the experiences and advice coming from members on the forum. I am actually in need of some help and advice for my ILR which is due in May 2014. I would really appreciate if I could please get some suggestions on the following:

I got my and wife's Tier-1 extension in June 2012 and my child was born in Dec 2012. I did not get a dependant visa for him as there were no plans for him to travel outside UK. Do I need to include him in my ILR application, or should I get mine and my wife's ILR done, without including him as dependant and then apply for child's MN1 after our ILR ?

Thanks

[CR001]

Do I need to include him in my ILR application NO, or should I get mine and my wife's ILR done, without including him as dependant and then apply for child's MN1 after our ILR ? YES

Thanks

[kingascona]

Your children can be registered as British citizens under Section 3(1) Chapter 9.17.24, Chapter 9.17.25 and Chapter 9.17.26 of Volume one of the British Nationality Act 1981.

They do not need ILR provided:

1. One parent is a British and the other parent has ILR
2. The children have lived here legally for at least 2 years and still living here legally
3. The children have no bad behaviour
4. Both parents give their consent for the children to be registered

I have recently registered my two children who were born in Ghana, aged 7 and 4. Their mother got ILR in October 2013 and I got my citizenship this year.

You need FORM MN1 to register children who are under 18 years. I can help you fill out the form and the documents you need.

Applying ILR for your children before registering them as British citizen is just a waste of money. The immigration rules says you can register them.

[kingascona]

My children and their mum came to the UK in January 2011 on dependent visas and I registered them without having to apply ILR for the kids since their mum had ILR and me being a British citizen. The kids were on dependent visas when I did the registration.

I had a problem with the officer when I was doing the Nationality Checking for my children. He told me that my children need ILR before I could register them and I disagreed with him so he called the Home office on a special line. The first person he spoke to at the Home Office said my children needed ILR before I could register them.

After talking to the officer at the Home Office, he advised that he cannot process the application and I should go and apply ILR for my children first. I insisted I have the right to register my children as British citizens without having to apply for ILR, based on SECTION 3(1) CHAPTER 9 VOLUME ONE of the British Nationality Act 1981 document I read.

The officer then again called the Home Office, explaining the situation and also read out the following statement which I had written down in page 14 on the application form:

"I AM APPLYING FOR REGISTRATION AS A BRITISH CITIZEN UNDER SECTION 3(1) CHAPTER 9 OF VOLUME ONE (1) OF THE BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT 1981 WHICH ENABLES REGISTRATION OF MINORS AT DISCRETION.

I AM SPECIFICALLY APPLYING UNDER CHAPTER 9.17.24, CHAPTER 9.17.25 AND CHAPTER 9.17.26 OF VOLUME ONE (1) OF THE BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT 1981."

The officer doing the checking was kept on hold for about 20 mins and was later transferred to about three (3) different people just to clarify whether I could register my kids or not. He read the above statement to all the three officers at the Home Office. The last person asked the following questions:

1. What is the Nationality of the father? British
2. What is the Nationality of the mother? Ghanaian
3. What is the settle status of the mother? ILR
4. Kids age? 7 and 4

He then confirmed that my kids could be registered. My wife nearly had a heart attack for all the stress and troubles.

SOMETIMES, I WONDER WHY SOME PEOPLE AT THE HOME OFFICE GET PAID AT ALL, FOR GIVING WRONG INFORMATION WITHOUT EVEN CROSS CHECKING.

This is a special case and they are going to use their discretion whether or not to grant the application. They will grant the application if they are convinced that the future of the children lies here (UK).

So you need a letter from your kids school confirming their attendance. Also, let their school head teacher be the 1st REFEREE on the application form.

If the children has been out of the country for a long time, it can affect your application. Except on short holidays. I can help you fill out the forms and also try and advise. You can email me on: kingascona1913@yahoo.com if you want to.

[kingascona]

Chapter 9 of the Nationality Instructions states:

‘The most important criterion is that the child's future should clearly be seen to lie in the UK. A reliable indicator should be the applicant's and/or the family's past behaviour. If that suggests an established way of life in the UK, and we have no reason to think that this will continue, we should accept at face value that the child intends to live here’.


SECTION 3(1) CHAPTER 9.17.24, CHAPTER 9.17.25 AND CHAPTER 9.17.26 OF VOLUME ONE (1) OF THE BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT 1981 ARE AS FOLLOWS:

Conditions of stay
--------------------
9.17.24 We should normally expect a minor to be free of conditions of stay because the future of a child whose stay is restricted does not clearly lie here (see 9.17.2). Registering a minor who is on conditions has the effect of cancelling their conditions because, on becoming a British citizen, the minor would cease to be subject to immigration control.

9.17.25 We should therefore normally refuse an application for the registration of a minor whose stay in the United Kingdom is restricted to a specific period.

9.17.26 But if one or both parents are British citizens who have come to the United Kingdom to live permanently, then this may be less important, if:

a) the minor meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17; and

b) the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9-9.17.14 above, then we should consider whether registration would be
appropriate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... apter9.pdf

[satish333]

Chapter 9 of the Nationality Instructions states:

‘The most important criterion is that the child's future should clearly be seen to lie in the UK. A reliable indicator should be the applicant's and/or the family's past behaviour. If that suggests an established way of life in the UK, and we have no reason to think that this will continue, we should accept at face value that the child intends to live here’.


SECTION 3(1) CHAPTER 9.17.24, CHAPTER 9.17.25 AND CHAPTER 9.17.26 OF VOLUME ONE (1) OF THE BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT 1981 ARE AS FOLLOWS:

Conditions of stay
--------------------
9.17.24 We should normally expect a minor to be free of conditions of stay because the future of a child whose stay is restricted does not clearly lie here (see 9.17.2). Registering a minor who is on conditions has the effect of cancelling their conditions because, on becoming a British citizen, the minor would cease to be subject to immigration control.

9.17.25 We should therefore normally refuse an application for the registration of a minor whose stay in the United Kingdom is restricted to a specific period.

9.17.26 But if one or both parents are British citizens who have come to the United Kingdom to live permanently, then this may be less important, if:

a) the minor meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17; and

b) the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9-9.17.14 above, then we should consider whether registration would be
appropriate.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... apter9.pdf

Hi King,
this information contradicts with Vinny's info with regards to my original post above. what was your immigration staus (ILR or ? ) when your children were born outside uk ?
my case depends on your answer

regards
Raj

[kingascona]

Hi Raj,

My information does not contradict with Vinny's in anyway. If your kids were born outside the UK and at the time of their birth none of the parents were British or British descents, then your kids cannot be British by descent or register them under Section 3(2) or Section 3(5). You will have to register them as British citizens under Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981.

I am a British by naturalisation and my wife has ILR. My children were born in Ghana and came over here in 2011 on dependant visa, which runs out in June 2014.

You can register your children born outside the UK as British citizens so far as they are under 18, at least one parent is a British and the other parent has ILR, the kids have been in the country for at least 2 years, the parents are married and living together with the kids, the parents or the kids have no criminal records or bad behaviour.

Read the following link of Section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981, if you have similar situation as mine then read: Conditions of stay in Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26. Children do not necessarily need ILR to be registered under Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26.

Remember, you cannot register kids as British citizens if both parents have ILR. At least one parent should be a British and the other parent having ILR. Also, if the kids spends more time outside the UK, it can affect their application.

[satish333]

Hi Raj,

My information does not contradict with Vinny's in anyway. If your kids were born outside the UK and at the time of their birth none of the parents were British or British descents, then your kids cannot be British by descent or register them under Section 3(2) or Section 3(5). You will have to register them as British citizens under Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981.

I am a British by naturalisation and my wife has ILR. My children were born in Ghana and came over here in 2011 on dependant visa, which runs out in June 2014.

You can register your children born outside the UK as British citizens so far as they are under 18, at least one parent is a British and the other parent has ILR, the kids have been in the country for at least 2 years, the parents are married and living together with the kids, the parents or the kids have no criminal records or bad behaviour.

Read the following link of Section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act 1981, if you have similar situation as mine then read: Conditions of stay in Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26. Children do not necessarily need ILR to be registered under Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26.

Remember, you cannot register kids as British citizens if both parents have ILR. At least one parent should be a British and the other parent having ILR. Also, if the kids spends more time outside the UK, it can affect their application.

HI King,
Thanks for your reply.

I am in a similar situation as yours. but neither me or my wife were settled (ILR) in UK when my children were born outside of the UK. I got the ILR and citizenship after childrens birth.

So would like to know...were you settled ( on ILR etc) in UK when your children were born ouside of the UK ?

Raj

[kingascona]

My first son was born in Ghana 1 year before I even traveled to the UK. My other son was born in Ghana but at the time of his birth, I was settled here (ILR). My wife and the kids moved to the UK in 2011 on a 4 years dependant visa.

My wife got her ILR in October 2013 and then I put my naturalisation in. You can still register your child if your child was born outside the UK and both parents were not settled here at the time of the child's birth; provided one parent is a British and the other has a settled status (ILR).

The laws under Section 3(1) does not require that parents should settled (ILR) here at the time of the child's birth before the child can be registered. Kindly read the link I sent you and refer to Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26. If the child and the parent meet the requirement, then you can register the child.

They are going to look at whether the future of the child lies here, if they are convinced that the future of the child lies here, then the application will be granted. So if the child is in school or nursery, you should ask the school to provide you with a letter confirming your child's attendance, let the headteacher be a referee one (1) on the application form (MN1), add any evidence that proves your child is in school.

Also, if the child has siblings who are British, you can add their birth certificates and passports to the application. That is to prove that the child has a connection here and therefore his/her future lies here.

[satish333]

My first son was born in Ghana 1 year before I even traveled to the UK. My other son was born in Ghana but at the time of his birth, I was settled here (ILR). My wife and the kids moved to the UK in 2011 on a 4 years dependant visa.

My wife got her ILR in October 2013 and then I put my naturalisation in. You can still register your child if your child was born outside the UK and both parents were not settled here at the time of the child's birth; provided one parent is a British and the other has a settled status (ILR).

The laws under Section 3(1) does not require that parents should settled (ILR) here at the time of the child's birth before the child can be registered. Kindly read the link I sent you and refer to Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26. If the child and the parent meet the requirement, then you can register the child.

They are going to look at whether the future of the child lies here, if they are convinced that the future of the child lies here, then the application will be granted. So if the child is in school or nursery, you should ask the school to provide you with a letter confirming your child's attendance, let the headteacher be a referee one (1) on the application form (MN1), add any evidence that proves your child is in school.

Also, if the child has siblings who are British, you can add their birth certificates and passports to the application. That is to prove that the child has a connection here and therefore his/her future lies here.

Hi King,
I really appreciate your prompt response

This information is quite useful for many people in similar situation. Vinny's reply to my post, states that my children can not be registered unless they granted ILR even after meeting all other criteria which is untrue based on your reference chapter 9.17.26


May god bless you & your family

Raj

[Jambo]

My first son was born in Ghana 1 year before I even traveled to the UK. My other son was born in Ghana but at the time of his birth, I was settled here (ILR). My wife and the kids moved to the UK in 2011 on a 4 years dependant visa.

My wife got her ILR in October 2013 and then I put my naturalisation in. You can still register your child if your child was born outside the UK and both parents were not settled here at the time of the child's birth; provided one parent is a British and the other has a settled status (ILR).

The laws under Section 3(1) does not require that parents should settled (ILR) here at the time of the child's birth before the child can be registered. Kindly read the link I sent you and refer to Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26. If the child and the parent meet the requirement, then you can register the child.

They are going to look at whether the future of the child lies here, if they are convinced that the future of the child lies here, then the application will be granted. So if the child is in school or nursery, you should ask the school to provide you with a letter confirming your child's attendance, let the headteacher be a referee one (1) on the application form (MN1), add any evidence that proves your child is in school.

Also, if the child has siblings who are British, you can add their birth certificates and passports to the application. That is to prove that the child has a connection here and therefore his/her future lies here.

Hi King,
I really appreciate your prompt response

This information is quite useful for many people in similar situation. Vinny's reply to my post, states that my children can not be registered unless they granted ILR even after meeting all other criteria which is untrue based on your reference chapter 9.17.26


May god bless you & your family

Raj

But 9.17.26 doesn't apply to your case. You are not a BC who come to live permanently in the UK but a naturalised BC who was living in the UK before becoming British.
I would suggest they obtain ILR unless you are a risk averse person.

[kingascona]

Hello Raj,

Do not be deceived and ask Vinny to quote from Section 3(1) Chapter 9 of the British Nationality Act 1981 to support or back his/her point. The following are Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26 specifies condition of stay of the child and the parents. I have also included the other parts of chapter 9 which were referred or mentioned within Chapter 9.17.24 to Chapter 9.17.26

Conditions of stay
9.17.24 We should normally expect a minor to be free of conditions of stay because the future of a child whose stay is restricted does not clearly lie here (see 9.17.2 Read it below). Registering a minor who is on conditions has the effect of cancelling their conditions because, on becoming a British citizen, the minor would cease to be subject to immigration control.

"9.17.2 The most important criterion is that the child's future should clearly be seen to lie in the UK. A reliable indicator should be the applicant's and/or the family's past behaviour. If that suggests an established way of life in the UK, and we have no reason to think that this will not continue, we should accept at face value that the child intends to live here."

9.17.25 We should therefore normally refuse an application for the registration of a minor whose stay in the United Kingdom is restricted to a specific period.

9.17.26 But if one or both parents are British citizens who have come to the United Kingdom to live permanently, then this may be less important, if:
a) the minor meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17; and
b) the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9-9.17.14 Read below, then we should consider whether registration would be appropriate.

Citizenship and immigration status of the parents

9.17.9 We should normally expect that:
a) at least one parent is a British citizen or
b) one of the parents has applied to be registered or naturalised as a British citizen and the application is going to be granted (if the parent’s application is to be refused, we should normally refuse the minor’s application as well);
and

c) the other parent is either settled in the United Kingdom (see Annex F to Chapter 6); or
d) whilst not settled, is unlikely in the short or medium term to be returnable to his or her country of origin (eg s/he has been granted Discretionary Leave), and there is otherwise no reason to think that the child’s future does not lie in the United Kingdom.

9.17.10 If the parents have divorced or separated and the child does not have ongoing contact with the other parent (even if he or she shares parental responsibility for the child) we would normally expect that:
a) the parent having the day-to-day responsibility for the child is, or is about to become, a British citizen; or
b) is settled here but not a British citizen and there are good reasons why registration would be appropriate, taking into account the examples given in 9.17.11 below

9.17.11 It will rarely be right to register a child neither of whose parents is or is about to become a British citizen. However, each case should be considered on its merits, and there may be exceptional circumstances to justify registration in a particular case, such as for example:

a) older teenagers who have spent most of their life here, or
b) minors who require British citizenship in order to follow a particular career (for example, sport, Armed Forces, etc),
and
c) the minor's future can clearly be seen to lie in the United Kingdom,
and, in relevant cases only,
d) the person making the application has day to day care and responsibility for the child's upbringing, and either is, or is about to become a British citizen but see section 9.21 on applications made by guardians.

9.17.12 An application which falls outside these criteria should not normally be approved, even if there are British citizen siblings or siblings with entitlements to registration as a British citizen, unless we are satisfied that registration would be in the child's best interests.

Consent of the parent
9.17.13 We should normally expect both parents to give consent to the registration. The main reasons for this, the exceptions which can be made, and what to do in cases of difficulty, are set out in 9.18 below.

9.17.14 The way in which consent is given may vary according to the circumstances in which the application is made:
a) If the application is made on Form MN1, then either;
i. both parents should have signed part 16(a); or
ii. there should be an accompanying letter of consent from the non-applicant parent
b) If both parents have made a joint application for citizenship, and any minors are included in only one parent's form, we may assume that the consent of the other parent has been given
c) If only one parent is applying for citizenship and any minors are included in the application, then we should expect a letter of consent from the other parent
d) We may also judge that consent has been given if the other parent has good reason for not putting it in writing (for example, if, by formally giving consent, the child would lose his existing nationality, which happens, for example, under Swedish law) but we are nevertheless satisfied from the circumstantial evidence that the other parent is willing for the child to be registered


Where does it say in the whole document that if someone naturalises, that person has not come to live permanently? A person born as British and a person who naturalises as a British citizen, have the same right and privileges.

Read Chapter 9.17.9 downwards which talks about Citizenship and immigration status of the parents.

9.17.9 We should normally expect that:
a) at least one parent is a British citizen or
b) one of the parents has applied to be registered or naturalised as a British citizen and the application is going to be granted (if the parent’s application is to be refused, we should normally refuse the minor’s application as well);
and
c) the other parent is either settled in the United Kingdom (see Annex F to Chapter 6); or

d) whilst not settled, is unlikely in the short or medium term to be returnable to his or her country of origin (eg s/he has been granted Discretionary Leave), and there is otherwise no reason to think that the child’s future does not lie in the United Kingdom.
I would suggest they obtain ILR unless you are a risk averse person.

It is stated clearly that a child whose stay in the United Kingdom is restricted to a specific period is irrelevant if (9.17.26) one or both parents are British citizens who have come to the United Kingdom to live permanently, then this may be less important, if:
a. the minor meets the other normal criteria for registration set out in 9.17; and
b. the parents meet the criteria set out in 9.17.9-9.17.14 above, then we should consider whether registration would be appropriate.


People with ILR have permanent residence so as naturalised British citizens; someone who has come to live permanently in the UK can clearly be seen with people with settled status and moreover, future intentions can also be stated on the application form if you and your family has come to live permanently in the UK. There is no where in the entire document where it says the child should necessary have ILR in order to be eligible for registration. I AM TALKING FROM EXPERIENCE.

Let Vinny quote you from the document else take what s/he said as speculation.