ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

A few questions about fiancée visa (including about NHS)

Family member & Ancestry immigration; don't post other immigration categories, please!
Marriage | Unmarried Partners | Fiancé | Ancestry

Moderators: Casa, archigabe, CR001, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, Administrator

Locked
imb01
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:40 am

A few questions about fiancée visa (including about NHS)

Post by imb01 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:59 am

Hello there,

My fiancé and I are currently getting together the documents necessary for my application, and intend to get married soon after I get my visa.

This is a long and scary process, and while we'll also be asking a few questions to a lawyer, I'd really appreciate some advice!

1) I've spent a total of 6 years living in the UK, mostly as a student, and 2 years on a Post-Study Work visa (I did a master's degree after that).
I first entered the country as a student (1+ year), then got the PSW (2 years) and then got another student visa for the master's (almost 3 years, long program). During this time, I used NHS services, had my own NHS number, etc.
From what I understand, it is the surgery's/hospital's responsibility to make sure I was eligible for services (I think they hand out forms to patients to be filled), and I was always honest about my status in the UK – so as far as I can tell, I never used the services illegally.
In the VAF4 form, there is this question: 6.17 Have you ever received medical treatment in the UK?
This question is followed by: 6.18 Did you have to pay for the treatment?
Now, I've paid for the dentist a couple of times with the NHS, but I also had private treatment when I needed urgent help. I paid for that privately, and still have the bills somewhere.

Should my answer be YES or NO? Because I did get both free treatment (GP surgery, trip to the A&E, for example), and also paid for it.

The form also asks for the hospital info/doctor's surgery. When I lived in the UK, I moved between different boroughs and registered at local clinics every time – so I went to multiple surgeries. There's no space to mention them all. What should I put there?

2) My fiancé was born in the UK in 1982 and lived there until age 10, but his parents were Irish and he moved to Ireland after that. He has an Irish passport, never had a British one. We've checked the rules, and if he was born in the UK before 1983, it appears he got British citizenship automatically. Does that mean he does not need to have "settled" in the UK as an EU/EEA citizen? If we supply his birth certificate, does he also have to order a British passport? Do we need any official confirmation that he has British citizenship? Ordering a British passport for the first time as an adult apparently takes 6 weeks and we'd rather not wait for that if we can (we miss each other and want to be together as soon as possible).

3) If my fiancé counts as British officially due to his birth certificate, then which nationality does he put down first in the VAF4 form? He's always identified as Irish, but we don't want the lack of an official "settled" status to trip up immigration.

4) There is the following question on the VAF4 form: 6.5 Have you ever been refused, deported, removed or otherwise required to leave any country (including the UK) in the last 10 years?
I've never had any issues with the UK, or being denied entry anywhere. However, one time, my tourist visa application to Belgium was denied (they lost some of the documents I handed in). I do not intend to hide this fact (I am handing in the old passport with the rejection), but I don't know if this is what the question means.

These are the main questions. I'd really appreciate some help, and thank you in advance. It scares me terribly that something might get in the way of getting back together with my fiancé. :-(

SoHopeful
Senior Member
Posts: 948
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: A few questions about fiancée visa (including about NHS)

Post by SoHopeful » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:47 am

I can't comment on the NHS stuff however, given that your partner is Irish you could use the EU route as he would be a member of the EU living in the UK. This route is a little simpler as he would not have to show that he earns the required amount to support you.

imb01
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:40 am

Re: A few questions about fiancée visa (including about NHS)

Post by imb01 » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:10 pm

SoHopeful wrote:I can't comment on the NHS stuff however, given that your partner is Irish you could use the EU route as he would be a member of the EU living in the UK. This route is a little simpler as he would not have to show that he earns the required amount to support you.
Unfortunately he appears to be a holder of British citizenship by virtue of being born in the UK before 1983 (it's what the UK Gov website says, anyway). I've come across posts by people with dual Irish-British citizenship on here before, and they've all said that the EEA FP route is only possible if the British citizenship is renounced. :-( Also, we're not married just yet, and marrying in my home country will take months of paperwork prep, which is one of the reasons I'm applying for the fiancee visa... Thank you for the reply though, appreciated!

imb01
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:40 am

My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he British?

Post by imb01 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:45 pm

Hello there,

We're currently getting together the documents necessary for a family of a settled person visa in order to get married in the UK, where my fiancé lives. He has an Irish passport, but was born in the UK in 1982 (to Irish parents, who were settled in the UK themselves at the time) and lived there until he was 10.

Does this mean he has dual citizenship? According to this webpage, it appears so. The rest gives the following result (when picking the options of born before 1983, and on a UK territory): "In most cases you’re a British citizen": https://www.gov.uk/check-british-citize ... y-1983/yes

Does that mean that he can put down that he is British in the VAF4A form? Is it enough to only supply a birth certificate aside from his Irish passport, or is having a British passport absolutely necessary if he does count as British? Because it asks the nationalities of my sponsor/partner, and also asks what right he has to stay in the UK.

There's some services available, such as registering as a British citizen (which costs over £800), which make me think that unless he has claimed citizenship, it may not count. He's also never had a British passport (and getting a new one would take at least 6 weeks if he does count as British).

The reason I am asking is because I've seen other Irish people with dual citizenships on here say that they've renounced their citizenships in order to take advantage of the EEA family permit visa, which they couldn't have done if they hadn't renounced.

As I've said, he's Irish and with an Irish passport. I want to apply for a visa, join him and get married as soon as possible, but if he doesn't count as a British citizen, then he has to be officially "settled" in the UK and get some special permit – which takes a fairly long time.

It's all a little confusing. We'll also be asking a lawyer about this, but we were hoping to apply in 2 weeks and now aren't sure
Last edited by imb01 on Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CR001
Moderator
Posts: 88953
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:55 pm
Location: London
Mood:
South Africa

Re: My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he Britis

Post by CR001 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:01 pm

Why don't you apply for an EEA Family Permit on the basis of his Irish passport. Much much cheaper and no financial requirements etc. like the UK immigration rules.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

imb01
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:40 am

Re: My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he Britis

Post by imb01 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:14 pm

CR001 wrote:Why don't you apply for an EEA Family Permit on the basis of his Irish passport. Much much cheaper and no financial requirements etc. like the UK immigration rules.
Because we still have to get married (which will take ages as he has to get a certificate of being free to marry from Ireland; 2+ months including gathering the documents before giving a month's notice at the register office), and also if he is British as well as Irish, we don't qualify as the British citizenship trumps the Irish one. Honestly, we'd rather pay extra and get back together faster than spending more months apart.

EDIT: Wow, I'm really confused... Didn't realize my previous question would be combined with this one. As much as we need advice on the NHS question and the one about refusal of entry, the question regarding citizenship and birth certificates is really the big one here...

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he Britis

Post by Obie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:21 pm

Am Irish National in the UK is considered as settled from the 1st day of his residence in the UK, and therefore does not need a British passport to be able to sponsor a person under the immigration rules.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

imb01
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:40 am

Re: My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he Britis

Post by imb01 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:30 pm

Obie wrote:Am Irish National in the UK is considered as settled from the 1st day of his residence in the UK, and therefore does not need a British passport to be able to sponsor a person under the immigration rules.
Well, that's a weight off our minds! Thank you very much for replying. :-)

Just to clarify: does that mean his Irish passport will be enough, or is his birth certificate still also advisable? No need to put down "British" among citizenships at all?

Obie
Moderator
Posts: 15163
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 am
Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Re: My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he Britis

Post by Obie » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:41 pm

SEE page 6 of this link.

That policy applies by analogy to other provisions of the rule. Therefore if an Irish Citizen is resident in the UK, He or she is considered as settled, and can sponsor their family members under the immigration rules.

In any event your partner is a British also as he was born Before 1 January 1983.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

imb01
Newly Registered
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:40 am

Re: My fiancé is Irish, born in UK before 1983. Is he Britis

Post by imb01 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:43 pm

Obie wrote:SEE page 6 of this link.

That policy applies by analogy to other provisions of the rule. Therefore if an Irish Citizen is resident in the UK, He or she is considered as settled, and can sponsor their family members under the immigration rules.

In any event your partner is a British also as he was born Before 1 January 1983.
That's terrific. Thank you very much!

Locked