I want to live in the UK with my partner - how?

[sadmanonatrain]

I'll keep this short'ish as I assume its the same sh*t but different toilet for long time users of the forum.

I'm a UK citizen/passport and I will be marrying my Japanese partner. We've been country hopping on working holiday visas for the past two years and I want to move back to the UK with my wife to be (we'll get married in New Zealand).

She's tried 3 years in a row to get the UK equivalent of the working holiday visa. But of course she hasn't got it because it's based on a random lottery system. Meaning someone with no English ability whatsoever can obtain this 2 year long visa while my degree educated partner can not. Ironic seeing how strict everything else is...(it actually makes my blood boil...)

Can someone please troubleshoot me by asking qualifying questions for all visas possible?

I do not currently earn the £18,400. I did in Japan but not now in New Zealand. This makes almost every route difficult as I'll be entering with no job or place to live really... She insists a work visa is impossible for her as she doesn't fill any of the shortage roles. Does it only have to be the shortage roles? Can she be offered a job from anyone? She's a translator.

Last year I remember reading information about the EEA permit as a workaround as it has no salary requirement? Go and work in Germany, live and work together there for a couple of months and now I'm considered an EU citizen and can bring along a spouse of any nationality? (man this seems all backwards).

But then I also read about this 'family of a settled person' - can we both turn up at Gatwick and immediately apply for this? The terminology used is 'switch' - does she need to be on a visa already? Are there salary requirements? They are not mentioned on the website. What visa can she get to 'switch'? Visitor visa?

Huh? Where's the spouse visa gone? Has the name changed? Is there still a salary requirement? Is the requirement for any job anywhere in the world? How long would I have had to have had it for? Can I have two jobs?

*sigh. I'm lost and need guidance. If you haven't rolled your eyes at the sheer naivety; any help and guidance is hugely appreciated.

Regards,
Nigel

p.s that was short at all - sorry

[vinny]

I do not currently earn the £18,400. I did in Japan but not now in New Zealand. This makes almost every route difficult as I'll be entering with no job or place to live really... She insists a work visa is impossible for her as she doesn't fill any of the shortage roles. Does it only have to be the shortage roles? Can she be offered a job from anyone? She's a translator.

Last year I remember reading information about the EEA permit as a workaround as it has no salary requirement? Go and work in Germany, live and work together there for a couple of months and now I'm considered an EU citizen and can bring along a spouse of any nationality? (man this seems all backwards).

That's probably the best way for you and your wife.

[Casa]

I'll keep this short'ish as I assume its the same sh*t but different toilet for long time users of the forum.

I'm a UK citizen/passport and I will be marrying my Japanese partner. We've been country hopping on working holiday visas for the past two years and I want to move back to the UK with my wife to be (we'll get married in New Zealand).

She's tried 3 years in a row to get the UK equivalent of the working holiday visa. But of course she hasn't got it because it's based on a random lottery system. Meaning someone with no English ability whatsoever can obtain this 2 year long visa while my degree educated partner can not. Ironic seeing how strict everything else is...(it actually makes my blood boil...)

Can someone please troubleshoot me by asking qualifying questions for all visas possible?

I do not currently earn the £18,400. I did in Japan but not now in New Zealand. This makes almost every route difficult as I'll be entering with no job or place to live really... She insists a work visa is impossible for her as she doesn't fill any of the shortage roles. Does it only have to be the shortage roles? Can she be offered a job from anyone? She's a translator.

Last year I remember reading information about the EEA permit as a workaround as it has no salary requirement? Go and work in Germany, live and work together there for a couple of months and now I'm considered an EU citizen and can bring along a spouse of any nationality? (man this seems all backwards).

But then I also read about this 'family of a settled person' - can we both turn up at Gatwick and immediately apply for this? The terminology used is 'switch' - does she need to be on a visa already? Are there salary requirements? They are not mentioned on the website. What visa can she get to 'switch'? Visitor visa?

Huh? Where's the souse visa gone? Has the name changed? Is there still a salary requirement?

*sigh. I'm lost and need guidance. If you haven't rolled your eyes at the sheer naivety; any help and guidance is hugely appreciated.

Regards,
Nigel

p.s that was short at all - sorry

Hey, you've got a wide range of questions there...but I'll answer what I can.
1. You can't just turn up at Gatwick (or any other point of UK border entry) and apply for a visa. Neither could she 'switch' from another visa at the point of entry either.
2. It's not possible to switch from a visitor visa to any other category from within the UK.
3. £18,600 is the minimum annual income level unless you have savings over £62,500 held in an accessible account for at least 6 months.
4. Without earnings in NZ @ the equivalent salary of £18,600 in the 12 month period immediately before submitting the spouse settlement application and a confirmed job offer in the UK to start within 3 months of arrival, again at £18,600 p.a you would have to re-locate to the UK ahead of your wife. Once you had 6 months employment at the required income level you could apply for a spouse settlement visa.
5. Re-locate together to another EU state and enter the UK under the Surinder Singh route. This has become significantly tougher and you would have to show that you had moved 'the centre of your life' there, with employment or study, integrating into local life. In order to submit a strong application you will need to show more than 'a few months' of residence. This route under EEA regulations doesn't require a specific income level.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinde ... ion-route/

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh

The UK settlement route is expensive, with visa fees due to increase again in April. The spouse visa is well over £1,000 with a NHS surcharge to pay of £600...with more fees over the 5 year probationary period before qualifying for ILR, with even higher visa fees at this end stage for permanent settlement.

[sadmanonatrain]

I do not currently earn the £18,400. I did in Japan but not now in New Zealand. This makes almost every route difficult as I'll be entering with no job or place to live really... She insists a work visa is impossible for her as she doesn't fill any of the shortage roles. Does it only have to be the shortage roles? Can she be offered a job from anyone? She's a translator.

Last year I remember reading information about the EEA permit as a workaround as it has no salary requirement? Go and work in Germany, live and work together there for a couple of months and now I'm considered an EU citizen and can bring along a spouse of any nationality? (man this seems all backwards).

That's probably the best way for you and your wife.

Vinny, thank you. Just like that I will do this; as it seems nothing has changed since last year of me looking into this. I was offered a teaching English as a second language position but didn't have the funds to fly both of us there and get the accommodation. So now we're in New Zealand acquiring these funds.

Can I ask what happens after, when we're in the UK? What would she need to do after the 6 months expire?

[sadmanonatrain]

Sorry Casa,

I only just read your post after replying just then. So the SS has got tougher? I mean I was using the 'couple of months' very loosely there. 6 months would suffice?

Without having clicked on your links (which I will) what specifically has changed? I was under the impression being married, living in the same place (contracts etc), both working and having a joint bank account would be enough? Do we need to attend language schools now too? (half joke)

Thank you for your time on detailed answers on the other less desirable and expensive options though.

Cheers.

[Casa]

Read through this thread from earlier this morning regarding a refusal under Surinder Singh due to the case worker's opinion that 5 months was insufficient to prove 'centre of life' rule. This may be won at appeal but will be a lengthy and uncertain outcome.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... l#p1294640

A spouse visa will require your wife to pass an A1 level English test from an approved test provider before submitting her application. This isn't necessary under Surinder Singh EEA regulations.

The links I posted will give you a broader understanding of SS.

[noajthan]

... So the SS has got tougher? I mean I was using the 'couple of months' very loosely there. 6 months would suffice?

Without having clicked on your links (which I will) what specifically has changed? I was under the impression being married, living in the same place (contracts etc), both working and having a joint bank account would be enough? Do we need to attend language schools now too? (half joke)

...

Cheers.

HO are clearly playing hard ball now (possibly emboldened by the coming referendum & talk of Brexit & etc).

You may even have to have some children and put them in school too.

But even that scenario didn't seem to work out for the other other poster - who may have to try & challenge the UK's controversial and non-European centre-of-life requirements in court.

[sadmanonatrain]

I've read through the guidance of SS and I don't see any foreseeable problems in writing :S But please judge yourselves:

We will live (rent), bank and work in Germany for 12 months.

We will both be taking German language lessons (with cert.)

The unlikely scenarios listed are of people moving to France for 3 months, in a hotel, while popping back to the UK every weekend... Which is not what we intend to do :S

Under 12B it states b. Does the British citizen have any other family members resident in the host member state - I do? I was born in Germany to a German father. His side of the family are all there. What does this mean for me?

People have used this route without having children right?

What was the outcome of the EU investigation into the UK's interpretation of "centre of life"? Because it seems the UK's interpretation turns out to be completely wrong - which on a personal level urks me.

[noajthan]

I've read through the guidance of SS and I don't see any foreseeable problems in writing :S But please judge yourselves:

We will live (rent), bank and work in Germany for 12 months.

We will both be taking German language lessons (with cert.)

...

Under 12B it states b. Does the British citizen have any other family members resident in the host member state - I do? I was born in Germany to a German father. His side of the family are all there. What does this mean for me?

People have used this route without having children right?

...

Yes people do do this with 'just' their spouse.

But do you mean you are a dual citizen with German nationality?
This will not fly in Germany as your target state for Surinder Singh if you are German.
If you are the EEA national (& sponsor) you can't exercise treaty rights (on a Surinder Singh route) in your own country.

[sadmanonatrain]

Thanks for your reply. No i understand; my passport says I'm a British citizen and the UK is my place of permanent residence (though I haven't been there for 2.5 years).

[ALKB]

Thanks for your reply. No i understand; my passport says I'm a British citizen and the UK is my place of permanent residence (though I haven't been there for 2.5 years).

Just because you currently have no valid German passport does not make you lose German citizenship.

If you were born to a German father in Germany you are German unless you have done something to lose citizenship automatically such as naturalising as a non-EEA national.

Have you ever had a German passport as a child?

I assume you lived in Germany at least for a little while? Were registered in Germany, have a German birth certificate, etc. ?

[sadmanonatrain]

Thanks for your reply. No i understand; my passport says I'm a British citizen and the UK is my place of permanent residence (though I haven't been there for 2.5 years).

Just because you currently have no valid German passport does not make you lose German citizenship.

If you were born to a German father in Germany you are German unless you have done something to lose citizenship automatically such as naturalising as a non-EEA national.

Have you ever had a German passport as a child?

I assume you lived in Germany at least for a little while? Were registered in Germany, have a German birth certificate, etc. ?

Excuse the random reply as I've only just seen this post.

I'll have to consult my parents to better understand but I'm pretty sure my nationality is British(tad embarrassing if I'm wrong). Yes, I can at any point for the rest of my life have the right to become a proper 'German' because I was born before a certain date, in the country to a German father (I think).

My parents divorced when I was about 10. We moved to my mothers country of England. Did I have a German passport for that move? I don't know, don't think so as its just an EU move of countries and being a child I don't know if there were alternative travel cards or something. For the other 10 years I lived and grew up in the UK, holding a British passport and residency. I know for sure that I have a German birth certificate yes (I remember having to pay stupid money to get it translated for passport many years ago).

I would appreciate the ramifications of the above. As I hadn't considered it at all because I don't hold German citizenship/am not a resident. It's not a deal breaker as there are many other countries, just a shame.

[Wanderer]

Germany does not allow dual citizenship (other than if the other citizenship is an EU one).

[sadmanonatrain]

I don't hold dual citizenship though.I have the ability to. But I don't. I thought I'd be exercising this route as a British citizen (because obviously I can't exercise the treaty rights in a home country).

But then... if I'm already German I might as well just go 100% German with the passport and residency and just move the UK as an EU foreigner with his non EU spouse right?.....lol... Ugh what a mess.

The way I've always thought of it, naively, is if I was competing at the Olympics, it would have a Union Jack next to my name.

I do need clarification on this though - thanks.

p.s I can't find the document that has guidance on Shengen "12B b. Does the British citizen have any other family members resident in the host member state " - that document - can someone link me to it?

[ohara]

I'll have to consult my parents to better understand but I'm pretty sure my nationality is British(tad embarrassing if I'm wrong)

I don't think you fully understand what people are saying here.

It is absolutely possible to be born with citizenship of multiple countries, depending on the nationality laws of the countries involved.

My mother was born in Finland to a British father and a Finnish mother, which automatically made her Finnish and British at birth. She was eligible for both passports immediately.

Likewise, a child born in the United States (for example) to a British father and Finnish mother would gain American, British and Finnish citizenship at birth, due to the nationality laws of those 3 countries.

[sadmanonatrain]

I'll have to consult my parents to better understand but I'm pretty sure my nationality is British(tad embarrassing if I'm wrong)

Likewise, a child born in the United States (for example) to a British father and Finnish mother would gain American, British and Finnish citizenship at birth, due to the nationality laws of those 3 countries.

You're right I'm not understanding as all this hasn't crossed my mind, ever. So in terms of using the country of Germany for the SS route... for me? Because I hold citizenship at birth to that country, it would be a no-go because technically it is a home country of mine - correct? (even though I'd be exercising the route as a British citizen).

Thanks for the examples, it's helped me understand (depending on the above last question).

[ohara]

As noajthan has said above, you cannot exercise EEA treaty rights in a country in which you already hold citizenship of, so if you are indeed a German citizen, you couldn't start a Surinder Singh journey in Germany.

[Casa]

To further complicate the situation....if you hold dual German and British citizenship, you would be unable to settle in the UK under your German EU citizen rights as for immigration purposes you would only be considered as British.

[noajthan]

Maybe you can renounce German nationality - if that can help.

[sadmanonatrain]

Uhh would that help? Even if it did it would only for the purpose of me being dead set on Germany.
Just be 100% clear none of this affects say, me going to France or Poland via this route? Right? RIGHT?

Thanks for the additional replies. Funny how impactful imaginary lines on maps are hey?

[ALKB]

Maybe you can renounce German nationality - if that can help.

Or he could renounce his British nationality and wouldn't even need to undertake SS route.

Although, that could be a tad risky in case of Brexit.

[noajthan]

Maybe you can renounce German nationality - if that can help.

Or he could renounce his British nationality ...

Unthinkable

[ALKB]

Excuse the random reply as I've only just seen this post.

I'll have to consult my parents to better understand but I'm pretty sure my nationality is British(tad embarrassing if I'm wrong). Yes, I can at any point for the rest of my life have the right to become a proper 'German' because I was born before a certain date, in the country to a German father (I think).

My parents divorced when I was about 10. We moved to my mothers country of England. Did I have a German passport for that move? I don't know, don't think so as its just an EU move of countries and being a child I don't know if there were alternative travel cards or something. For the other 10 years I lived and grew up in the UK, holding a British passport and residency. I know for sure that I have a German birth certificate yes (I remember having to pay stupid money to get it translated for passport many years ago).

I would appreciate the ramifications of the above. As I hadn't considered it at all because I don't hold German citizenship/am not a resident. It's not a deal breaker as there are many other countries, just a shame.

You should get clear about your nationality status. As I understand it, you are a dual national from birth, regardless of what kind of identity documents you are currently holding. AND if you go to live in Germany and you knowingly or unknowingly give false information about your nationality and such to the authorities, you might get into a bit of hot water sooner or later (maybe much later but it will be unpleasant nevertheless).

There is no 'becoming a proper German' in German nationality law. You either are German or you are not. No shades of black-red-gold here.

You might have been endorsed on your mother's passport (don't know much about UK passports, just a wild guess) when you moved to the UK or maybe you held a German Kinderreisepass. Travel without identity documents is not possible between Germany and the UK, not now and not 10 years ago. I'd strongly suggest to talk to your parents and the nearest German Embassy before you make the move.

By the way, you can get an international version of your birth certificate which states all information in German, English and French. I have those for my daughters and got one for myself recently; it does away with the need for translations in most countries.

[sadmanonatrain]

Excuse the random reply as I've only just seen this post.

I'll have to consult my parents to better understand but I'm pretty sure my nationality is British(tad embarrassing if I'm wrong). Yes, I can at any point for the rest of my life have the right to become a proper 'German' because I was born before a certain date, in the country to a German father (I think).

My parents divorced when I was about 10. We moved to my mothers country of England. Did I have a German passport for that move? I don't know, don't think so as its just an EU move of countries and being a child I don't know if there were alternative travel cards or something. For the other 10 years I lived and grew up in the UK, holding a British passport and residency. I know for sure that I have a German birth certificate yes (I remember having to pay stupid money to get it translated for passport many years ago).

I would appreciate the ramifications of the above. As I hadn't considered it at all because I don't hold German citizenship/am not a resident. It's not a deal breaker as there are many other countries, just a shame.

You should get clear about your nationality status. As I understand it, you are a dual national from birth, regardless of what kind of identity documents you are currently holding. AND if you go to live in Germany and you knowingly or unknowingly give false information about your nationality and such to the authorities, you might get into a bit of hot water sooner or later (maybe much later but it will be unpleasant nevertheless).

There is no 'becoming a proper German' in German nationality law. You either are German or you are not. No shades of black-red-gold here.

You might have been endorsed on your mother's passport (don't know much about UK passports, just a wild guess) when you moved to the UK or maybe you held a German Kinderreisepass. Travel without identity documents is not possible between Germany and the UK, not now and not 10 years ago. I'd strongly suggest to talk to your parents and the nearest German Embassy before you make the move.

By the way, you can get an international version of your birth certificate which states all information in German, English and French. I have those for my daughters and got one for myself recently; it does away with the need for translations in most countries.

ALKB I appreciate your long post. I don't see what your say to be wrong so we won't be going to Germany anyway. We'll have to go to another country (any suggestions?). I was thinking Austria but I have grandparents living there and I assume that's another no-no. So I don't want any association with anything or anyone regarding relatives/birth/nationality to keep the application clean!

Which then leaves me with a wide variety of countries I don't hold any strong feelings for wanting to move to. I try to think of it as exciting or a mini adventure for 6 months but we've been relocating for the past 2 years and I just want it to end now.

Ireland is popular with these routes. Just the working holiday for my partner is a bit strict (having to apply physically in Japan, high amount of money in the bank). In the maybe pile for now. Probably most appealing due to its proximity and the ease of integration.

Thanks.

[noajthan]

Which then leaves me with a wide variety of countries I don't hold any strong feelings for wanting to move to. I try to think of it as exciting or a mini adventure for 6 months but we've been relocating for the past 2 years and I just want it to end now.

Ireland is popular with these routes. Just the working holiday for my partner is a bit strict (having to apply physically in Japan, high amount of money in the bank). In the maybe pile for now. Probably most appealing due to its proximity and the ease of integration.

Thanks.

Take a scan through the forum, all is not rosy with Ireland for Surinder Singhers. Bureaucracy, delays, applicants being profiled and (apparently) blocked by authorities.
Something is evidently going down there and authorities appear to be playing hardball.
(Wonderful place in every other regard).

Suggest take a look at Malta:

• good climate;
  English-speaking & Anglophile country;
  IT/gaming sector;
  seasonal tourist/entertainment sector;

- what's not to like!