Help with Surinder Singh Route

[Skylar1331]

I am a US citizen married to a UK citizen. My husband and I live in Spain where he has a full time job as a school teacher. He has been working and we have been living here for the past two years. We were married in Gibraltar in 2014, adopted a dog here, had a child here and have rented a house. I believe this qualifies us for the Surinder Singh visa route to return to the UK as we can easily prove that this is his centre of life and we are both Spanish residents. Our child is a US and UK citizen by birth who was born in Spain and is a Spanish resident.

I have been accepted into a funded phd program at a UK university but instead of getting a Student visa which I would need to apply for from the US, we're going to use Surinder Singh and move back to the UK from Spain. I start in October so would like to move near the end of September but my husband will return before me, likely in mid-August to get ready for a new job teaching in the UK and find us a place to live. My question is how exactly the Surinder Singh route works and what we need to do to prepare for our move this fall.

1. When should I apply for Surinder Singh? I am still waiting on our child's British passport to arrive in the mail-- do I need to include it in the application or is the Singh route just for me as I'm the only non UK citizen?

2. Does my husband need to travel with us when we enter the UK as my permit will be linked to him? If so, he'll have to fly back for the weekend to escort us back.

3. What documents do I need to submit along with filling in the application? These are what I imagine we will need:

-our rental agreement for the house*
-my husband's work contract
-our marriage certificate
-our child's birth certificate (we had it translated to English for his UK passport application)
-our dog's Spanish passport*
-our Libro de familia and residency cards from Spain*
-our internet/wifi bill/contract*
-my husband's bank account contract*
-my passport and my husband's passport

*All of these are in Spanish. It is quite costly to have them translated and some of them, like the rental agreement are pages and pages long because of all of the legal stuff in contracts. Do we need to pay for the entire document to be translated?! How does this work?!

4. How long does the application take to process? If we need to submit my passport then it will have to be in the first week of July at the earliest as I am travelling on and off until then.

5. Do I need to arrive in the UK and then apply for something else in order to start university or can I use the same document we travel to the UK with to stand as a student visa?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

[noajthan]

1. When should I apply for Surinder Singh? I am still waiting on our child's British passport to arrive in the mail-- do I need to include it in the application or is the Singh route just for me as I'm the only non UK citizen?

2. Does my husband need to travel with us when we enter the UK as my permit will be linked to him? If so, he'll have to fly back for the weekend to escort us back.

3. What documents do I need to submit along with filling in the application? These are what I imagine we will need:

...

*All of these are in Spanish. It is quite costly to have them translated and some of them, like the rental agreement are pages and pages long because of all of the legal stuff in contracts. Do we need to pay for the entire document to be translated?! How does this work?!

4. How long does the application take to process? If we need to submit my passport then it will have to be in the first week of July at the earliest as I am travelling on and off until then.

5. Do I need to arrive in the UK and then apply for something else in order to start university or can I use the same document we travel to the UK with to stand as a student visa?

Many thanks in advance for your help!

1) Just you. Apply for FP (online).

2) You can either join or move with hubby.

3) Google FP documents guidance - there's a UK gov page on this.

4) Not sure. FP is valid 6 months - suggest apply asap

5) Talk to international student advisor & check uni website.

You will obviously have to register at uni.
Note HO plays hardball and forces universities to act as proxy immigration officials so your status and the paperwork to prove it will have to be in order.
They may need sight of your UK FM RC (or at least an interim COA) before they will entertain you.

As a returning SS-er and BC, hubby doesn't have to exercise treaty rights in UK (as per case law of Eind) so all you have to do is reside in UK.
That means you can apply for your RC as soon as in UK.

Again, this reinforces find out university requirements asap - don't leave it all too late.
There have been members here who have reported missing out on university registration or suffered enforced late registration due to such issues.

[secret.simon]

My tupp'orth.

The OP likely does not need an FP.

-our Libro de familia and residency cards from Spain*

I presume from this line that the OP has an Article 10 Residence Card issued in Spain. If such is the case, she can enter the UK based on that and then apply for a UK Residence Card as Noajthan has advised.

If she goes down this route, the OP should bear in mind that she should have enough time for her to get at least a COA by October. Given that it will be summer vacations in the UK, I would recommend arriving in the UK and starting the paperwork for the RC by early August at the latest, so that she has at least the COA in October.

[noajthan]

My tupp'orth.

The OP likely does not need an FP.

Yes, possible;
- or go commando and arrive in UK as a visa-free US visitor.

However an early FP application at least exercises and tests the SS credentials.

I seem to recall, one or two members have reported a university not even accepting a COA (or taking a lot of persuading to do so).
The UK RC is going to be vital here.

[Skylar1331]

Thank you all of your help!

So it seems there are three options:

1. I apply for an EEA Famly Permit using SS from Spain this summer. When I travel to the UK I apply for a residency card using an online application and doing biometrics at the post office. I will have to make the SS case a second time in order to get this card and they'll post me a confirmation letter and then my card.

2. I enter the UK with my Spanish residency card and my American passport* then do the UK residency card application using SS.

3. I enter the UK with just my American passport* as a tourist and then do the UK residency card application using SS.

*For #2 and #3 what do I tell them at the border? Do I say I am joining my husband and explain the Surinder Singh thing? Do I tell them I'm planning to stay and that I have a phd course I'm starting? I feel like they will give me a hard time if I'm not travelling with my husband, don't have a student visa and I say I plan to stay in the UK for the next 3 years.

I think we have a pretty solid SS case so I'd be tempted to go for option 2 and arrive mid-August in time to apply for my residency card from the UK with 6 weeks before the course starts. It would save me from making the SS case twice and from the risk that the application I make from Spain in July returns my passport in time for me to make an August flight.

However, here is what my university has said:
"We have received your email below, unfortunately as this is such a specialized visa application this goes beyond our level of expertise and we can’t offer advice about the timing for the application. However I can confirm that in order to register for your PhD you would need to have a visa, such as the EEA Family Permit, that would allow you to study."

So basically, are they saying that I just need the FP and can apply for the residency card later? It sounds like it, although I will clarify this with them. If this is the case,then I should do #1. I apply for and EEA FP using SS in July and plan to join my husband in late September in the UK and then just get my residency card after I register at university.

[noajthan]

Thank you all of your help!

So it seems there are three options:

1. I apply for an EEA Famly Permit using SS from Spain this summer. When I travel to the UK I apply for a residency card using an online application and doing biometrics at the post office. I will have to make the SS case a second time in order to get this card and they'll post me a confirmation letter and then my card.

2. I enter the UK with my Spanish residency card and my American passport* then do the UK residency card application using SS.

3. I enter the UK with just my American passport* as a tourist and then do the UK residency card application using SS.

*For #2 and #3 what do I tell them at the border? Do I say I am joining my husband and explain the Surinder Singh thing? Do I tell them I'm planning to stay and that I have a phd course I'm starting? I feel like they will give me a hard time if I'm not travelling with my husband, don't have a student visa and I say I plan to stay in the UK for the next 3 years.

I think we have a pretty solid SS case so I'd be tempted to go for option 2 and arrive mid-August in time to apply for my residency card from the UK with 6 weeks before the course starts. It would save me from making the SS case twice and from the risk that the application I make from Spain in July returns my passport in time for me to make an August flight.

However, here is what my university has said:
"We have received your email below, unfortunately as this is such a specialized visa application this goes beyond our level of expertise and we can’t offer advice about the timing for the application. However I can confirm that in order to register for your PhD you would need to have a visa, such as the EEA Family Permit, that would allow you to study."

So basically, are they saying that I just need the FP and can apply for the residency card later? It sounds like it, although I will clarify this with them. If this is the case,then I should do #1. I apply for and EEA FP using SS in July and plan to join my husband in late September in the UK and then just get my residency card after I register at university.

Sounds like you've more or less got it. Guess that's why you're doing a PhD.

1) The FP is applied for online.
The RC is a manual (paper) application.

You may not get a RC in 6 weeks.
You may not get a COA by then either.

Check timeline threads in the forum to track other members' experiences. (Your mileage may vary ofcourse).

The previous case I'm thinking involved an American from Germany.
- he entered UK as a visitor and simply turned up at uni on registration day. You can guess the rest.

I am surprised the university will accept a FP, the RC is really what you need.
And if it affects your funding it may be required before your first day at school (not sure on that for PhDs, but worth checking up on if $$$ are at stake).

Best advice is probably: come as early as you can. Apply for everything (FP, RC) as early as you can.
(As sponsor is a BC you don't need to wait until he finds a job in UK).
If you have a Spanish EHIC bring that too.

[noajthan]

fyi - related case:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/genera ... 94593.html

[secret.simon]

I can confirm that in order to register for your PhD you would need to have a visa, such as the EEA Family Permit, that would allow you to study."

I am surprised the university will accept a FP, the RC is really what you need.

I am surprised as well that the university would accept an FP.

But then, it reminds me of that clip in "Yes, Minister" where Sir Humphrey remarks that the minister does not know his ACAS from his NALGO. Or in this case, the university officer does not know his RC from his FP.

To clarify, my understanding of the matter is an FP confers no right on the non-EEA family member except the right to enter the UK. In your case, that right can also be exercised by either the Spanish Residence Card (which is not valid in the UK except to enter and exit as a family member) or by your US passport.

The RC is what documents your right to work and study and live in the UK under EU law. Mind you, it does not confer the right, it merely confirms an existing right. But the government's crackdown on illegal immigration means that workplaces and universities must check your right to work and live in the UK. And the RC, not the FP, is the only valid document for that.

As a spouse of an EEA citizen, you should get a COA, which allows you to work and study in the UK. I am not sure if the COAs issued to returning SS-ers are different and I am sure others will advise further.

Also see this recent thread about the right to work on an EEA FP.

Another fly in the ointment is the upcoming EU referendum. Whether there is a vote to stay in or leave, there are likely going to be implications for the SS route. The UK-EU deal, that was agreed by the UK Prime Minister and President of the European Council and that is to come in force on the UK remain in the EU, toughens up requirements in that field. Although the consensus on these forums is that the deal is illegal under the Treaties, it will be a year until they are tested in the Courts, though I suspect that they will come in force immediately after the referendum (assuming that Remain wins, as is highly likely).

My advice would be, pack your bags and get here (on your Spanish RC) and start your UK RC application before June 23rd. That way, you will be covered by any transitional provisions in force.

$$$ are at stake

We are British. You will have the satisfaction of losing pounds, one way or another.

[Skylar1331]

I've written them again to clarify as I also think maybe the university officer doesn't know the difference between FP and RC. I've had a student visa, a Tier 4 visa and a Tier 2 visa in the past and only on the Tier 2 did they make me get a residency card. So is FP like a Tier 2? Maybe they are used to dealing with student visas in which the visa letter itself is enough to start on a course.

Also, can someone help with the acronym CoA-- is that confirmation of acceptance for the RC application? And what is a Spanish EHIC?

My main issue is I have a four month old, a dog and a house in Spain. It's very hard to just up and leave-- add to that the price of plane tickets in the summer months between Spain and England. I will have no income and nowhere to live in the UK as my husband needs to stay here to collect his last months of pay. On top of that, I have a medical condition requiring me to be in Spain in September for an appointment-- which is why we are trying to stay here longer even if my husband goes back mid-August.

It sounds like I should take a risk and go mid-August, enter on my Spanish residency card and then apply for the RC as soon as I get there. I will either have to pay late registration fees if the card doesn't arrive in time OR I will lose my international student scholarship (45K GBP in fees but no provision for living costs) and place --- in which case I guess I will just have to move back to Spain as that's where I'll have residency! There's more sun here anyway

Unless the university says FP only. Then I can apply from Spain and come in September.

Thank you so much for your help everyone!

[Skylar1331]

One more thing. So I just read the link to the German case someone posted: http://www.immigrationboards.com/genera ... 94593.html

Here's the interesting bit:
"it sounds like you entered the UK under the visa waiver as an American citizen rather than under EU rules as a family member of an EEA citizen.

The best thing would have been to get an EEA family permit before moving (no visa fee, processing time about 3 weeks including mailing documents back and forth) or to ask for a code 1A stamp at the border, showing your marriage certificate, etc. This gives you the right to work and study and should have been sufficient for enrolling in university while your application for a residence card is being processed".

SO, should I try for the 1A stamp at the border? I have never heard of this before. I'm guessing the 1A will mean I need to travel with my husband. Or, if the university confirms an FP is all I need, then do I get that over the summer and join my husband in September? The 1A stamp sounds like the best plan to me as it saves me making the SS case twice.

Another question after reading that case-- someone said the American coming from German can go under home fees. My scholarship is as an international student-- I clarified with the university before applying that I was married to a UK citizen etc.etc. but they said I was still international. If I go with a FP and then get an RC will that invalidate my funding ?!!!

The point is RC proves status.
You have German RC that proves you're a family member; albeit in Germany but all that has changed is location not relationship.
Try to persuade them this is EU laws at play rather than UK law.

fyi the uni will be penalised if they get it wrong which may explain their behaviour.

You should be on EEA fees too.
And afaik once you start you can't change so dont get trapped on international fees.
Again if uni want a definitive answer & won't accept COA try to use the RC you have to prove family member status"

[noajthan]

The 1A stamp (its actually called something else now but it slips my mind) is like a FP application but is done at the border.
You will need to present all the same paperwork. You can imagine it may be stressful and incur delays.

I agree uni may be confused as to what a FP is.

My understanding is you need the RC before your first day in order to register.

I think you should be classed as an EEA student on the basis of 3 years (+) living in EU.

Suggest double check again on this point with the uni. See also the UKCISA website.
Uni will probably send you a questionnaire to establish your fee basis.
UKCISA is a good authority.

Pro tip: Even once in UK you are allowed to leave.
Suggest get established here asap, apply for RC asap.

You can always flit back and forth to Spain to sort things out.
(The money you save from switching from international fees to home/EU fees will pay for airfares).

The risk is no RC, no registration. If you start in August you probably won't have it by September.
And once your fees are set you can't change the fees basis later, If you start as an international you will stay as international student for the duration.

When you applied for scholarship did you explain clearly that you are not American (in immigration terms) but rather the family member of an EEA national?

COA is certificate of application.
EHIC = European health insurance card; (you may or may not have one).

[noajthan]

Start here with UKCISA:
http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Archive/Govern ... s-entitled

If you can persuade the authorities that, buy virtue of Surinder Singh, hubby/sponsor is an EEA national (& so not just a BC in the immigration context) then #5 appears to apply to you.

What I don't know is whether SFE and universities understand and accept Surinder Singh case law.
- I leave that as an exercise for the reader.

[Skylar1331]

"You can always flit back and forth to Spain to sort things out."

So if I apply for the family permit and it takes 3 weeks as most people have said, then I fly back to the UK for a week in August to apply for my RC and do the biometrics, I can return to Spain? I don't need to submit my passport with the application? I was under the impression that I did and that for the time the RC was processing I wouldn't be able to leave the UK.

Re: Funding, The thing is I have no fees as I won a full bursary as an international student that covers all 3 years of my phd. I'm hoping that registering as an RC holder via the family permit and SS won't mean I can't take advantage of my funding because it is meant for international students and I won't be listed as such during registration. I'm going to check this out with both the website mentioned and the university.

[Skylar1331]

Also, I have both a Spanish health card, a European health card that my partner got for me when he got his 2 years ago when we left the UK and I have my old UK health card as well.


I'm not sure if I would be classed as living in Europe for the last 3 years:

I activated a Tier 4 visa (which I had because I did my MSc in England a few years ago) in early 2012 and then worked under that for a major company in London until fall 2013 when they switched me to a Tier 2 visa as my Tier 4 had run out. Unfortunately, about a month later I quit the project I was working on. I had some small trips scheduled in the EU and returning from one of them had trouble at the border where they accused me of not notifying the gov. that I had left my job. I explained my office said they were doing that for me, which is why I hadn't and that I should have a month to look for a new sponsor but she wrote in my passport "max 6 months etc." and now I always have trouble going in and out of the UK (I had all of my paperwork with me and in order and she later apologized but the mark in my passport still stands). I lived in the UK as a visitor for 3 months, then in Cyprus for 1 month then was traveling and returned to move to Spain fall of 2014 which is when we were married in Gibraltar. I got my official Spanish residency card spring of 2015 and have been here ever since.

[noajthan]

"You can always flit back and forth to Spain to sort things out."

So if I apply for the family permit and it takes 3 weeks as most people have said, then I fly back to the UK for a week in August to apply for my RC and do the biometrics, I can return to Spain? I don't need to submit my passport with the application? I was under the impression that I did and that for the time the RC was processing I wouldn't be able to leave the UK.

Re: Funding, The thing is I have no fees as I won a full bursary as an international student that covers all 3 years of my phd. I'm hoping that registering as an RC holder via the family permit and SS won't mean I can't take advantage of my funding because it is meant for international students and I won't be listed as such during registration. I'm going to check this out with both the website mentioned and the university.

Agreed, you will need a travel doc to return to Spain. After so long in Spain you may have a Spanish id or some such?

And anyway, once the RC application has been filed (in UK) you may request return of your documents (after a few weeks) so you can always retrieve your passport.
The rest is logistics.

Whether you are an international or EU student is an interesting question.
You will have to emphasis hubby's EEA-credentials to qualify under the SS route for a RC.
If you rely on international status for funding then maybe you will be 'lucky' and find the funding authorities won't recognise or accept SS (and so will treat you as an American and international).
I don't know.

[Skylar1331]

Oh my, so many options!

I do have a Spanish residency card but I need a passport to travel now with the new security checks in place. I suppose that even if I request my passport back it means spending 3 weeks in the UK.

I'm going to hope that maybe, as the university has me down as an international student, they will only need the FP for registration. If they say they need the RC, it sounds like I'll have to come back for 3 weeks in July to make that application, request my docs are returned to me and then return to Spain for August and September. I'll enter the UK using my Spanish residency card with a planned exit date to return to Spain. That should mean they don't give me trouble at the border. Is there any reason why the RC application won't be accepted if I don't say I am planning to live in the UK when I enter?

[noajthan]

Oh my, so many options!

I do have a Spanish residency card but I need a passport to travel now with the new security checks in place. I suppose that even if I request my passport back it means spending 3 weeks in the UK.

I'm going to hope that maybe, as the university has me down as an international student, they will only need the FP for registration. If they say they need the RC, it sounds like I'll have to come back for 3 weeks in July to make that application, request my docs are returned to me and then return to Spain for August and September. I'll enter the UK using my Spanish residency card with a planned exit date to return to Spain. That should mean they don't give me trouble at the border. Is there any reason why the RC application won't be accepted if I don't say I am planning to live in the UK when I enter?

University should be able to tell you now what they will need when you register.
Suggest find out asap and well before they are all uncontactable during the summer recess.

Don't forget hubby/sponsor will have to establish himself in UK too.
Your rights in UK (under EU route) derive from him.

[frustratedbrit]

It sounds to me that your funding status drives everything. Get straight with the university / funding body whether your visa type affects your bursary, or is it based purely upon your citizenship. And if it is based on visa, get them to give you clear guidance on what visas make you eligible and whether you still qualify if you enter the country under an EEA Family Permit. And get this confirmed in official letters from the university / funding body.

Regarding entering the country, if your funding allows a Family Permit, then I would definitely think this is the way to do it, i.e. apply for one in Spain and use it to get into the UK. This has the advantage that it confirms your status as a Surinder Singh case early on. The first time you enter the UK under the Family Permit, you will get a stamp on the Family Permit page in your passport. I imagine that the timing of this stamp may be important for you - if it is after the referendum (23rd June) and there's a Brexit, in theory you may get problems. There really are no downsides to applying for a FP in Spain as well as UK RC once in the UK. You have to supply all the same documents for both, and a FP application is quick (yes, 3 weeks absolute max) and free. So what I would do is get a Family Permit now (it lasts for 6 months), and go for a quick and cheap visit to the UK to exercise your rights before 23rd June.

I would also really concentrate on getting confirmation from your university about whether a Family Permit or a Certificate of Application is sufficient for registration. Get some sort of official letter from someone senior at the university whose job it is to be responsible for these immigration issues, and use this if you get problems at registration. Keep on pressing the university admin for this (and for the funding letter), explaining that this is vital to your coming to the university, and that without confirmation you may decide not to come. This puts pressure on them to act, because they may lose you as a student, and thus lose lots of money.

Ideally you will not need a CoA for university registration, and the FP page in your passport is sufficient. This is because the process of application for an RC is very slow - it takes 5 to 6 months. As part of the application, you must give the UK Home Office original documents, including your passport and evidence of qualification for EEA family member status. Yes, you should get a CoA within a few weeks, and then a Biometrics Appointment Letter, but you are at the mercy of the application processing. I am currently applying for such residency cards under Surinder Singh for my wife and stepson, and mysteriously still have no CoAs after 4 months (although we did get Biometrics Appointment Letters within about 6 weeks).

With regards to entering the UK with your husband, under FP rules you can either enter the UK together or to join him if he is already in the UK. For absolute peace of mind, the lowest risk option is to travel together, but I'm sure you'd be fine on your own.

As far as the evidence required for FP/RC is concerned, you have got the right idea about supporting documents. However, there is an element of subjectivity for the Entry Clearance Office in interpreting the "centre of life" test, so to be absolutely certain I would also throw in the following:
- his payslips for his teaching job (6 months payslips would be ideal)
- 6 months of bank statements, showing salary coming in and day-to-day living expenses going out.

And another bit of advice - make sure you don't pay any fees when applying for the FP in Spain. I don't know the system there, but most UK visa processing is outsourced nowadays and as part of the online application process you can be directed to misleading webpages that suggest that you need to pay a fee to book an appointment or something or other. Under EU rules, your application to enter the country must be offered free.

[Skylar1331]

Well the university has again said that I only need an EEA family permit. I've now been told this by two people with the following titles:International Student Advisor, International Support and Engagement and Senior International Student Advisor, International Support and Engagement. I've asked them to put it in writing on official letter head that I can bring with me to register in case I have any problems and someone asks me for an RC. Perhaps it is because my status is international and not home that they don't need the RC? I'm getting clarification on the international student status regardless of visa for my funding as well.

"The PhD start date is 1 October 2016 and you would be required to register on that date ideally, but certainly no later than 22 October 2016.

The US passport and EEA family permit are all that would be required to satisfy the registration requirement.

*I’d be cautious about using route b) outlined below. Route a) sound much more preferable."

(b) I suggested entering with my Spanish residency and just applying for the RC but she seems to prefer the FP option

It sounds like I'll just plan on applying for my RC via SS after I have registered at university and not book any trips for several months given the wait time.

Thank you so much for the advice on centre of life docs. How does this look for a list? Did you submit anything additional?

-6 months of pay slips
-6 months of bank statements (do I need to have them all translated?)
-work contracts from the school for both years
-6 months of wifi/cell phone bills under my husband's account (do I need to have them all translated?)
-bank account and cell phone contracts (do I need these if I have the above?)
-vida laboral an official doc from Social Security shows how much has worked in the spanish system (do I need this?)
-his social security number and form (do I need this if I have the health cards etc.?)
---
-empadriamento conjoint which is an official spanish doc from the town hall saying where we live and that we are residing together + Translation (should I just do this instead of the rental agreement?)
-our lease agreement on the house without translation (it is so many pages and would cost too much!)
---
-our child's bc from spain + certified English translation
-our dog's Spanish passport (it has Spanish and English on it)
-our family's libro de familia (it has Spanish and English on it)
-my husband's residency card front/back + Translation
-my residency card front/back + Translation
-our health cards front/back + Translation?
-my european health card?
-my british NHS card from a few years ago?
---
-my husband's passport
-my passport
----
--a letter from the organization we foster dogs with stating we fostered 5 dogs here last year and are an active member of the animal rescue group
--a letter from a town football club saying my husband plays with them
--a letter from a Spanish tutor saying my husband has tried to learn the language (not mentioning that he has failed

Is there anything else?

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your help! I'm glad to hear SS has worked for others. We wen through so much paperwork to get established in Spain that I'm just trying to reduce stress in advance now that I have to do it all over again.

[noajthan]

Well the university has again said that I only need an EEA family permit. I've now been told this by two people with the following titles:International Student Advisor, International Support and Engagement and Senior International Student Advisor, International Support and Engagement. I've asked them to put it in writing on official letter head that I can bring with me to register in case I have any problems and someone asks me for an RC. Perhaps it is because my status is international and not home that they don't need the RC? I'm getting clarification on the international student status regardless of visa for my funding as well.

"The PhD start date is 1 October 2016 and you would be required to register on that date ideally, but certainly no later than 22 October 2016.

The US passport and EEA family permit are all that would be required to satisfy the registration requirement.

*I’d be cautious about using route b) outlined below. Route a) sound much more preferable."

(b) I suggested entering with my Spanish residency and just applying for the RC but she seems to prefer the FP option

It sounds like I'll just plan on applying for my RC via SS after I have registered at university and not book any trips for several months given the wait time.

Thank you so much for the advice on centre of life docs. How does this look for a list? Did you submit anything additional?

...

Is there anything else?

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your help! I'm glad to hear SS has worked for others. We wen through so much paperwork to get established in Spain that I'm just trying to reduce stress in advance now that I have to do it all over again.

Still not sure about the FP.
If you were truly an international student you would be entering UK on a Tier4 visa (and not a FP).
So they must half realise you are an EEA/EU student.

But in the end they are the ones advising you, so you have to take it at face value. Che sera sera!

You are correct to get it all in writing; hope for the best but plan for the worst.

You need to add proof of marriage into the mix of documents ie marriage certificate.
And a selection of tasteful couple and family photos & etc.

Ref https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... permit.pdf

Note: Some applicants who simply submit a marriage certifcate have been refused a FP even after several years of marriage.

See this recent member's case as an example:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... .html#wrap

The doggy passport is a nice touch.

Regarding evidence of hubby treaty rights, suggest give more evidence of work - going back further in time.

How old is child? - if attending nursery or school in Spain (or has a nanny?) then add that information in too; (integration).

This inside information/HO guidance will help you get into the head of the caseworker weighing up and assessing your centre of life:
See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _Singh.pdf

& https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf

[Skylar1331]

Thank you for the links!

I can include marriage certificate and family photos. We lived together in England before we left so I have a lease that has both our names on it from there, as well as a letter certifying we lived together in Cyprus for a month after we left England and before we arrived in Spain. I also have a bank statement from the US which shows we are dual bank account holders for an account we opened before coming to Spain.

Our child was born just before Christmas so I have a gazillion family photos.

As for his work-- he's been here full time for two years.
I can bring the vida labor from the Spanish gov and his payslips from last year (evidence we used to get my spanish residency).
I have the school play programme with his name on it as the advising media teacher.
He also went to a conference last year for British schools in Spain and got some certifications I can include.

The baby was born here in December-- I have my whole health book for when I was pregnant here with all of my appointments (they give you a pregnancy passport thing).

I have his baby health book too-- which lists all of his jabs etc. I am a stay at home mom so I don't have anything about a nanny.

We had him christened here -- should I get a letter from the church?

How much is too much or is there no such thing as too much?

[noajthan]

Thank you for the links!

I can include marriage certificate and family photos. We lived together in England before we left so I have a lease that has both our names on it from there, as well as a letter certifying we lived together in Cyprus for a month after we left England and before we arrived in Spain. I also have a bank statement from the US which shows we are dual bank account holders for an account we opened before coming to Spain.

Our child was born just before Christmas so I have a gazillion family photos.

As for his work-- he's been here full time for two years.
I can bring the vida labor from the Spanish gov and his payslips from last year (evidence we used to get my spanish residency).
I have the school play programme with his name on it as the advising media teacher.
He also went to a conference last year for British schools in Spain and got some certifications I can include.

The baby was born here in December-- I have my whole health book for when I was pregnant here with all of my appointments (they give you a pregnancy passport thing).

I have his baby health book too-- which lists all of his jabs etc. I am a stay at home mom so I don't have anything about a nanny.

We had him christened here -- should I get a letter from the church?

How much is too much or is there no such thing as too much?

Sounds like you're on track.
The link to the member who was initially refused (but granted second time around - after a delay) was to show what can happen even to a 'cast-iron' application (based on years of marriage etc).

Don't go overboard on photos etc but suggest send a sample, spread over time.
Don't send anything of value like a baby book.
Yes, christening letter or certificate would be good.

The overall idea is to remove any possible HO 'wriggle room'.

[ALKB]

Apart from the initial EEA FP application, where will your husband be when you apply for RC?

He has to move ahead of you or with you and you will have to provide proof that he is living with you in the UK.

Is it absolutely certain that you can't apply for a Tier 4 student visa from Spain? You are a legal resident there, so it should be possible, or am I missing something here?

Tier 4 visa seems to be (for once!) the less complicated and with all the travel back and forth possibly even the less expensive, less stressful and in view of your funding, the more secure thing to aim for.

[frustratedbrit]

It's true that a Tier 4 student visa should be straightforward and probably no more expensive (when everything is taken into account) than a Family Permit. However, assuming you get confirmation in writing from the relevant people in the university / funding body that a Family Permit is sufficient, then my opinion is that it is better to do it with a Family Permit. This is because you have much stronger rights, based on EU law rather than UK immigration rules. So, for example, they can't chuck you out of the country if you cease to be a student for some reason, or at the end of your PhD.

This much greater control over the situation than what you get with the Surinder Singh route is really why I decided to go for it. The alternative would have been a spousal visa, but the rule changes in 2012 (adding an income requirement and other things) meant that the subsequent follow up applications that needed to be made (after 2.5 and 5 years) might fail, for example if I lost my job in the months leading up to these applications.

Your document list now looks very strong, and I'm sure you'd get no problems. Noajthan is absolutely right about a few photos helping. The way to think about the supporting documents for Surinder Singh is: relationship, worker status, living together and centre-of-life (and really centre-of-life sort of subsumes worker status and living together). You prove your relationship with the marriage certificate and child's birth certificate, but back it up with some photos (5 to 10 would do it) to remove any doubt. Worker status is proved by the job contract for your husband and payslips, but back it up with bank statements showing it going into his/your Spanish bank account. Living together is proved by official letters addressed to each of you at the same address. Centre-of-life is proved by a Spanish bank account that you used, official letters, residency letters/cards, rental contract, utility bills, health insurance, etc, but back it up with extra stuff like the doggy passport (and careful not to describe it as the "dodgy passport"!) and letters regarding your pregnancy. This will definitely be sufficient.

Regarding translations, I just don't know. We successfully applied for Surinder Singh 4 times. Once from the Netherlands in 2013, twice from Germany (in 2014 and 2015) and once from Vietnam (in 2015). Each time I did not supply any translations of Dutch or German documents (but I did for a Vietnamese marriage certificate). I think I read somewhere about Directive 2004/38 that there were various official European languages that did not require translation in applications. I may be wrong about this; and the Home Office website certainly seems to suggest that translation is required. However, getting translations will probably be quite difficult, costly and time consuming. The Family Permit application process fairly quick and easy. Perhaps try without translations and if they reject, then get the translations done. The rejection will not harm your chances second time round. I haven't really searched around to check if people have been rejected for not having documents written in major EU languages translated.

[Skylar1331]

The University has said my status remains International:
"We wouldn’t normally need to issue an official letter in a situation like this. You are welcome to print my emails as evidence of our conversation.

We’ve never previously turned a student away from registration on their course if they have a valid passport and a valid EEA family permit (we’ve had many students in the same situation as yourself) and we haven’t received any reports of problems at the border for individual entering in this category.

Furthermore, I can confirm that your fee status will remain as international and as such, you will remain eligible for your funding. "

I guess that settles it-- I will apply for the Family Permit using SS and arrive in the UK at the end of September to meet my partner. I agree on the having less rights which is why I'm going with FP instead of Tier 4. I don't want anything to separate me from my husband and my son and I'd like the ability to work if I need to.

Your explanation of the SS evidence has been SO helpful. I think I have a good idea of what I will send and when to include translations and can start gathering it all up and filling out that book of an application. I really appreciate your summary as it confirms what I was thinking. It's also nice to know you've been successful with several SSs. Hopefully we will be too!