No Record of Jobs from 2005 - 2008

[Rizcon]

I'm asking this question on behalf of one of my friend who is about to complete 1 year on ILR which he got by 10 year LR route last year.
He came to UK in August 2005 as a student and didn't do any job almost for a year. In 2006, he started to work part time and full time during his holidays as allowed by his visa conditions and never broke any condition of his visa. When he came here, he had no intention to stay here and wanted to leave the country as soon as he finishes his studies.So, he never bothered to apply for the NI number,as in those days, it was possible and legal to do a part time job without Permanent NI number. In his pay slips, his date of birth was mentioned as a NI number.
Please note that, it's not something he was trying to cheat any authority by not applying for NI number or using his date of birth as National Insurance number. The company he worked for never raised this issue as well.
In 2009, rules changed and company refused to provide him work until he has Permanent NI number, which he then applied for and got it within few weeks back in 2009.
Recently, he asked for his 10 years employment history from HMRC and he found that HMRC has no records of his employment from 2005-2008 and has only data available after the date he applied for his national insurance number in 2009 as HMRC tracked his records from his NI number.
Now, he is stuck with this issue and not finding a solution for it. He was getting financial support from his father back home and he can prove it, but he is confused about mentioning the job in AN1 form which he did between 2006 & 2008.
If he mentions it, then there are no records with HMRC during those years and if he doesn't mention it and start to provide the Employment history from 2009, then it could be deception and he will face the consequences of it.
Once again, he has no intention to hide this information from HO or any other department as he was clean and worked according to his visa conditions, but he is finding difficult to decide what to write in 10 year employment history?
He has no pay slips or anything for that period, but the company he had worked for will probably give him a letter that he had worked for them during those years as part time.

[ouflak1]

I would think that the HMRC would have information regarding his employment with the reference to the 'birthday' NI number he used. He should request information with reference to that. If the taxes were paid, the information will be there.

[Rizcon]

I would think that the HMRC would have information regarding his employment with the reference to the 'birthday' NI number he used. He should request information with reference to that. If the taxes were paid, the information will be there.

Thank you for your reply.Of course,the records will be there as both NI and tax were deducted from his wages, but this is not his main concern.
He is worried that HO will track his records from his permanent NI number and they won't find the records of tax and NI contributions for the years 2006-2008 by his permanent NI number and they may consider it a deception or tax evasion,though right tax and NI contributions were paid deducted from his wages for the years in question.
According to new AN Guidelines:

1.48- 1.50 You must provide details of all your National Insurance contributions made for your current and previous employment during the past 10 years. To support this claim evidence can be in the form of payslips, P60s covering the relevant period, or a letter(s) from the employer(s) confirming you have worked for them, from the start and finish date.

Hope you now understand the problem he is facing to fill the form and could face by providing the details of job he did before getting his permanent NI number.Just to simply more, I'm going to write both scenarios:

(1) He decides to mention the job between 200-2008: HO will not find his tax and NI contributions by his permanent NI number and they will put the charges of tax evasion or may be deception.

(2) He decides not to mention this job: If HO dig out this job, they will put deception charges on him.

So, in both scenarios,he will face problems and possibly deception charges, though he had no intentions of doing so and paid the NI contributions and tax.

[cs95tdg]

Given the scenario you have outlined, if applying he would in all likelihood have to explain his employment history - not simply listing employment under the section dedicated for that. But provide an explanation of the temporary employment you refer to while he was a student in either a cover letter or under the additional information section. As has been advised, he should get records from HMRC for both his employment which refer to his DOB as NI number and thereafter actual NI number. This will help him verify that all Income Tax and NI obligations have been met in HMRC's records.

This will not be considered the norm, as I know those who work temporarily (not exceeding the permitted number of hours) while studying in the UK would normally apply for an NI number either before or after starting work. I was in a similar situation in the past, working while on a student visa, but applied for an NI number during the first few months after I began working. I too had no plans of remaining in the UK after my studies at the time, but did so as it was what I found out to be required at the time.

[Rizcon]

Given the scenario you have outlined, if applying he would in all likelihood have to explain his employment history - not simply listing employment under the section dedicated for that. But provide an explanation of the temporary employment you refer to while he was a student in either a cover letter or under the additional information section. As has been advised, he should get records from HMRC for both his employment which refer to his DOB as NI number and thereafter actual NI number. This will help him verify that all Income Tax and NI obligations have been met in HMRC's records.

This will not be considered the norm, as I know those who work temporarily (not exceeding the permitted number of hours) while studying in the UK would normally apply for an NI number either before or after starting work. I was in a similar situation in the past, working while on a student visa, but applied for an NI number during the first few months after I began working. I too had no plans of remaining in the UK after my studies at the time, but did so as it was what I found out to be required at the time.

Thank you for your reply.As the years in question are showing as a gap in his NI contribution records,we have found a link on HMRC website for the gaps and possible reasons;

Gaps in your National Insurance record:

You may get gaps in your record if you don’t pay National Insurance or don’t get National Insurance credits. This could be because you were:

employed but had low earnings
unemployed and weren’t claiming benefits
self-employed but didn’t pay contributions because of small profits
living abroad

I know that in his case this is because of temporary NI number, but is there any chance that HO overlook this gap as he was not in full time employment and was on low earnings?

Do you have any information that is it possible to inform HMRC and correct their records by requesting them to transfer the NI contributions and tax from temporary NI number to Permanent NI number, which can reflect every thing,if HO try to search his contributions from Permanent NI number,which they will do?

[longhorn]

Why are you over-complicating this? They are simply asking for your ten years employment history. I think you are overthinking this. HMRC only holds the records of last 7 to 8 years in their system. Regardless of whether you used your actual NI or temporary one, they would only have 7 to 8 years of history in their system. You may be able to get your previous history from 2005 to 2008 from their archive department. Call HMRC, ask them for your 10 years history, they would tell you that for anything older than 7 years you would have to write a letter to their SARC department. Write them a letter and they will send you whatever details they hold for years 2005 to 2008. Provide the same details that you get from HMRC on your AN form.

[cs95tdg]

Thank you for your reply. As the years in question are showing as a gap in his NI contribution records,we have found a link on HMRC website for the gaps and possible reasons;

Gaps in your National Insurance record:

You may get gaps in your record if you don’t pay National Insurance or don’t get National Insurance credits. This could be because you were:

employed but had low earnings
unemployed and weren’t claiming benefits
self-employed but didn’t pay contributions because of small profits
living abroad

I know that in his case this is because of temporary NI number, but is there any chance that HO overlook this gap as he was not in full time employment and was on low earnings?

I think the issue you will face if you don't explain the two NI numbers, is what you've noticed yourself. I.e. You list your 10 year employment history and quote your current NI number, there will be no HMRC history for those years where you worked under the temporary NI number. So it will appear as a discrepancy - however small the actual earnings were. As you have letters and payslips/P60's covering that time period, my personal view is that you should be able to clearly articulate the reason for this in a short cover letter to satisfy a case worker. At the same time also contact HMRC to see if they are able to locate your records under that temporary NI number.

Do you have any information that is it possible to inform HMRC and correct their records by requesting them to transfer the NI contributions and tax from temporary NI number to Permanent NI number, which can reflect every thing,if HO try to search his contributions from Permanent NI number,which they will do?

I'm afraid I don't know how you would go about doing this, but would suggest you try by contacting the the HMRC NI contributions helpline, who should be able to guide you. I'm aware of the temporary NI (something along the lines of TN######) you refer to as I had one issued to me during the first couple of months of my employment after which I applied for a permanent NI number - so the former one was consolidated with the new very soon after it was issued. So it would be different to the process of locating historical employment records.

For anyone that isn't aware, HMRC have recently introduced a online Personal tax account facility whereby you are able to view your complete NI records, which goes all the way back to when you first began working. But it's linked to your NI number (unique identifier). When I registered earlier this year, I could see my NI history for those time periods I worked in UK while studying many years ago. So it's not just the last 7-8 years that is visible. If anyone has multiple NI numbers they would not appears under a single personal tax account - unless they were somehow consolidated.

[longhorn]

For anyone that isn't aware, HMRC have recently introduced a online Personal tax account facility whereby you are able to view your complete NI records, which goes all the way back to when you first began working. But it's linked to your NI number (unique identifier). When I registered earlier this year, I could see my NI history for those time periods I worked in UK while studying many years ago. So it's not just the last 7-8 years that is visible. If anyone has multiple NI numbers they would not appears under a single personal tax account - unless they were somehow consolidated.

This is indeed very interesting. I contacted HMRC myself earlier this year and asked for my 10 years history, they clearly said that they only had it for 7 years. For everything else before that, they advised me to contact SARC department. I tried it a few times and got the same reply every time. The history that came from SARC dept after I wrote a letter to them only had the years listed against the total NI contribution for that year. No employer's name, no dates etc. They only had employment dates and start/end dates in the one that came for the last 7 years and not the one that came from SARC. Does yours show the employer's name/start date/end date for the whole 10 years when you log in ?

[cs95tdg]

For anyone that isn't aware, HMRC have recently introduced a online Personal tax account facility whereby you are able to view your complete NI records, which goes all the way back to when you first began working. But it's linked to your NI number (unique identifier). When I registered earlier this year, I could see my NI history for those time periods I worked in UK while studying many years ago. So it's not just the last 7-8 years that is visible. If anyone has multiple NI numbers they would not appears under a single personal tax account - unless they were somehow consolidated.

This is indeed very interesting. I contacted HMRC myself earlier this year and asked for my 10 years history, they clearly said that they only had it for 7 years. For everything else before that, they advised me to contact SARC department. I tried it a few times and got the same reply every time. The history that came from SARC dept after I wrote a letter to them only had the years listed against the total NI contribution for that year. No employer's name, no dates etc. They only had employment dates and start/end dates in the one that came for the last 7 years and not the one that came from SARC. Does yours show the employer's name/start date/end date for the whole 10 years when you log in ?

When I logged in what I could see was the total NI contributions for each financial year, but then again I don't think I had many different employers during that time. Based on what you've noticed, it may be that HMRC only retain a breakdown by employer for a certain number of years. Additionally, I think the employment history record is separate to what they refer to as your NI contributions record. The former would contain Income tax & other deduction details, whereas the latter would only consist of NI contributions. It makes sense that your complete NI contribution history is maintained, as it would be used to calculate state pension retirement benefits many years later.

As the online facility I referred to is still a BETA site, it appears that they may be making changes, one of the members below has noticed a difference to what I saw when I logged in several months ago.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... l#p1370802