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Tier1 ILR

Only for queries regarding Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR). Please use the EU Settlement Scheme forum for queries about settled status under Appendix EU

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Haroon1824
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Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:07 am

Respected senior advisers
Just a very quick one
I been to Liverpool on 16/6/16 and ILR REFUSED 322(5) and 245(CD) applied. 17/6/16 visa tier1 expired
Applied for AR on 23/6/16 still waiting for the response.
Solicitor saying from the date the application refused I have to I have to apply for new application by post as AR not yet received. he mentioned to continue 3c I have to withdraw AR and put new application by post.
If AR not receive within 28days then I will go for new application. I'm confused

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Casa
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Casa » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:47 pm

On what grounds does your solicitor believe that a new application will succeed where the first was refused. :?:
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

monty87
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by monty87 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:04 pm

Haroon1824 wrote:Respected senior advisers
Just a very quick one
I been to Liverpool on 16/6/16 and ILR REFUSED 322(5) and 245(CD) applied. 17/6/16 visa tier1 expired
Applied for AR on 23/6/16 still waiting for the response.
Solicitor saying from the date the application refused I have to I have to apply for new application by post as AR not yet received. he mentioned to continue 3c I have to withdraw AR and put new application by post.
If AR not receive within 28days then I will go for new application. I'm confused

Sorry to hear about your refusal. Were you refused based on tax discrepancies? Also, you're not covered by 3C leave for your new application as your Tier 1 has already expired on 17.06.16. You're under grace period of 28 days (overstayer) from the time you withdraw your Admin review or after results of your Admin review if Home Office maintained their decision. Your 3C leave is only until you are waiting for Admin review result. You only continue 3C leave for new application if your apply before your current visa has expired.

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:21 pm

Casa wrote:On what grounds does your solicitor believe that a new application will succeed where the first was refused. :?:
Hi
Thanks for your reply
New application on the basis of accountant error
Thanks

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:31 pm

monty87 wrote:
Haroon1824 wrote:Respected senior advisers
Just a very quick one
I been to Liverpool on 16/6/16 and ILR REFUSED 322(5) and 245(CD) applied. 17/6/16 visa tier1 expired
Applied for AR on 23/6/16 still waiting for the response.
Solicitor saying from the date the application refused I have to I have to apply for new application by post as AR not yet received. he mentioned to continue 3c I have to withdraw AR and put new application by post.
If AR not receive within 28days then I will go for new application. I'm confused

Sorry to hear about your refusal. Were you refused based on tax discrepancies? Also, you're not covered by 3C leave for your new application as your Tier 1 has already expired on 17.06.16. You're under grace period of 28 days (overstayer) from the time you withdraw your Admin review or after results of your Admin review if Home Office maintained their decision. Your 3C leave is only until you are waiting for Admin review result. You only continue 3C leave for new application if your apply before your current visa has expired.
Hi thanks for your reply
Yes based on tax amendments. I'm waiting for my Admin Review result if it goes positive everything will get sorted if not I'll go for JR.
Once I receive AR decision, how many days do I get to file PAP
And I heard if PAP is successful then fine if not JR.
Thanks once again for your precious advice
Look forward from you

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:33 pm

Hi thanks for your reply
Yes based on tax amendments. I'm waiting for my Admin Review result if it goes positive everything will get sorted if not I'll go for JR.
Once I receive AR decision, how many days do I get to file PAP
And I heard if PAP is successful then fine if not JR.
Thanks once again for your precious advice
Look forward from you

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Casa
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Casa » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:37 pm

Haroon1824 wrote:
Casa wrote:On what grounds does your solicitor believe that a new application will succeed where the first was refused. :?:
Hi
Thanks for your reply
New application on the basis of accountant error
Thanks
You are legally responsible for your tax declarations, not your Accountant.
Note:
Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not" and "ignorance of law excuses no one" respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he or she was unaware of ...
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

monty87
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by monty87 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Haroon1824 wrote:Hi thanks for your reply
Yes based on tax amendments. I'm waiting for my Admin Review result if it goes positive everything will get sorted if not I'll go for JR.
Once I receive AR decision, how many days do I get to file PAP
And I heard if PAP is successful then fine if not JR.
Thanks once again for your precious advice
Look forward from you
You can challenge any public body decision within 3 months.

Have a look on here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ial-review

Do you have enough evidence and credible explanation in your application to be able to discharge 322(5) for your application? You need to start preparing your argument and start searching on taxation laws, general grounds of refusal policies, tier 1 etc to prove why it is unlawful decision to refuse application.

longhorn
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by longhorn » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:39 pm

Casa wrote: You are legally responsible for your tax declarations, not your Accountant.
Note:
Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not" and "ignorance of law excuses no one" respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he or she was unaware of ...
Yes but the law also allows room for human errors and that's why HMRC accepts account amendments. Immigrants are not superhuman and they can make mistakes. However, what needs proving is that it was a genuine mistake and not a deliberate act of tax evasion.
Home Office states that an accountant must be an accredited one. A person not an expert of accounting and taxation laws pays a fee to the accountant and relies upon information provided by him. If accountant makes a mistake (for example in calculating your tax-free allowance specially if the income you declared falls in two tax years) then you shouldn't be held responsible for not knowing about this as this is the whole reason why you hire an accountant anyway. Another part of story is that the advice you get from Accountant is not always what HMRC requires. For example a lot of accountants are of the view that if you are a director (not self employed) and your dividend income is within basic threshold, you dont need to file a tax return because you don't owe any tax to HMRC. HMRC on the other hand insists every director to file a tax return. Not sure who's correct on this but the fact of the matter is that you hire an accountant to deal with your taxes. if he makes a mistake which you cant easily figure out without having a lot of knowledge of taxation etc then you shouldn't be held responsible for that.

longhorn
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by longhorn » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:04 pm

longhorn wrote:
Casa wrote: You are legally responsible for your tax declarations, not your Accountant.
Note:
Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law excuses not" and "ignorance of law excuses no one" respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he or she was unaware of ...
Yes but the law also allows room for human errors and that's why HMRC accepts account amendments. Immigrants are not superhuman and they can make mistakes. However, what needs proving is that it was a genuine mistake and not a deliberate act of tax evasion.
Home Office states that an accountant must be an accredited one. A person not an expert of accounting and taxation laws pays a fee to the accountant and relies upon information provided by him. If accountant makes a mistake (for example in calculating your tax-free allowance specially if the income you declared falls in two tax years) then you shouldn't be held responsible for not knowing about this as this is the whole reason why you hire an accountant anyway. Another part of story is that the advice you get from Accountant is not always what HMRC requires. For example a lot of accountants are of the view that if you are a director (not self employed) and your dividend income is within basic threshold, you dont need to file a tax return because you don't owe any tax to HMRC. HMRC on the other hand insists every director to file a tax return. Not sure who's correct on this but the fact of the matter is that you hire an accountant to deal with your taxes. if he makes a mistake which you cant easily figure out without having a lot of knowledge of taxation etc then you shouldn't be held responsible for that.
Also Lets assume a person Mr A who made an application for Leave To Remain in October 2012 using a self-employment income of 35K in last 12 months (i.e. October 2011 to September 2012). Mr A had made a profit of just £10K from Oct 11 to Mar 12 but made a profit of 25K from April 12 to Sep 12. Provided that Mr. A only had marginal profit for the periods Apr 11 to Aug 11 and Oct 12 to Mar 13, he would declare his income for the year 2011-12 as 10K + marginal profit and for the tax year 2012-13 as 25K+marginal profit. This is completely fine in terms of the law and he indeed earned 35K from October 2011 to September 2012 but you'd only see the income declared to HO when you add the figures for two financial years together. There’s no attempt of dishonesty here.

Also imagine another case, when Mr A incurred a loss of 5K within the same financial year (i.e. 2012-13) after successfully making his application for Leave to Remain as T1G. Mr A would be dishonest if he provides fake and made up figures of a profit of 25K for the year ending April 13. If the loss is genuine, he should provide the correct figures of 20K. There was no immigration law that made an applicant liable to report any loss of income within the same financial year when he made the application so I can’t work out how and why HO are accusing people of dishonestly. I find it very unfortunate for those who are having to prove that they were not deceitful considering that they have spent a big part of their live residing legally and lawfully in this country.

monty87
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by monty87 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:29 pm

Section 9ZA of HMRC SALF204 Regulations states:

'Where an error is discovered after the time limit for a correction, or an amendment, has passed, action may nonetheless be taken to correct it. Where the error has resulted in an underpayment of tax it may be open to HMRC either to commence an enquiry, or make a discovery assessment, depending on when the error is discovered. Where taxpayers become aware of an underpayment after the expiry of the time limit for amendments, they should notify HMRC so that corrective action may be taken accordingly.'

In light of such regulations, the legitimate expectation is that government departments, including the Home Office, should take official HMRC amendments into consideration which otherwise would be accepted in any scenario

Paragraph 19 (f)(iii) a document produced by a person, business, or company as an official return to a tax authority, showing details of earnings on which tax has been paid or will be paid in a tax year, and which has been approved, registered, or stamped by the tax authority.

Tier 1 (General) guide does not state to use professional accountant for submission of tax returns, and there could potentially be errors in HMRC submission. Why has Home Office not implemented controls beforehand and provided conditions in its policies before generalising character or conduct for inconsistent income records between HM Revenue and Customs and Home Office? Home Office should at least give applicant an opportunity to explain the discrepancies by following its own “Evidential Flexibility”. As long as you can justify discrepancies with evidence/credible explanation to Home Office and pay tax prior to application, HO should take this into account as it states in general grounds of refusal policy for 322(5) to take into account new evidence not previously known and not vaguely generalise character. Not filing a tax return at all is negligence and hard to argue however amendment should generally be acceptable as there is no guarantee when error can be discovered which HMRC being the statutory tax authority understand and acknowledge. Home should get a reliable evidence from HMRC what could potentially be a deception or dishonesty case to justify 322(5) clause of immigration rules which in most cases is only deemed allegations by HO.

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:39 am

monty87 wrote:
Haroon1824 wrote:Respected senior advisers
Just a very quick one
I been to Liverpool on 16/6/16 and ILR REFUSED 322(5) and 245(CD) applied. 17/6/16 visa tier1 expired
Applied for AR on 23/6/16 still waiting for the response.
Solicitor saying from the date the application refused I have to I have to apply for new application by post as AR not yet received. he mentioned to continue 3c I have to withdraw AR and put new application by post.
If AR not receive within 28days then I will go for new application. I'm confused

Sorry to hear about your refusal. Were you refused based on tax discrepancies? Also, you're not covered by 3C leave for your new application as your Tier 1 has already expired on 17.06.16. You're under grace period of 28 days (overstayer) from the time you withdraw your Admin review or after results of your Admin review if Home Office maintained their decision. Your 3C leave is only until you are waiting for Admin review result. You only continue 3C leave for new application if your apply before your current visa has expired.
Hi
Extremely thankful and support from the seniors and gurus
I'm in same situation waiting for AR decision. Applied AR on 23/6/16
Poe Liverpool 16/6/16 and expired 17/6/16
I came in Sep 2007.
If AR result is positive then everything will be ok and if not if I will go for JR if decision goes against me will my 10yr still open or will I be considered as over stayer and if JR hearing is due and for eg still 2-3 months left for 10yr route can I extend the date and can apply for 10yr route n withdraw JR

monty87
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by monty87 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:17 am

Haroon1824 wrote: Hi
Extremely thankful and support from the seniors and gurus
I'm in same situation waiting for AR decision. Applied AR on 23/6/16
Poe Liverpool 16/6/16 and expired 17/6/16
I came in Sep 2007.
If AR result is positive then everything will be ok and if not if I will go for JR if decision goes against me will my 10yr still open or will I be considered as over stayer and if JR hearing is due and for eg still 2-3 months left for 10yr route can I extend the date and can apply for 10yr route n withdraw JR
As per your circumstances, you are not eligible for ILR LR until sep 2017. You're considered overstayer from the time of your admin review feedback. Waiting on JR decision or if it is negative does not count towards your 10 years route. It will only count towards your 10 year if JR is successful.

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:21 am

Hi
Extremely thankful and support from the seniors and gurus
I'm in same situation waiting for AR decision. Applied AR on 23/6/16
Poe Liverpool 16/6/16 and expired 17/6/16
I came in Sep 2007.
If AR result is positive then everything will be ok and if not if I will go for JR if decision goes against me will my 10yr still open or will I be considered as over stayer and if JR hearing is due and for eg still 2-3 months left for 10yr route can I extend the date and can apply for 10yr route n withdraw JR

As per your circumstances, you are not eligible for ILR LR until sep 2017. You're considered overstayer from the time of your admin review feedback. Waiting on JR decision or if it is negative does not count towards your 10 years route. It will only count towards your 10 year if JR is successful.


Hi Experts,
Finally received my AR dated 19/7/16 and it has been refused under the same grounds 322 (5) and 245 (CD). visa expired on 17/6. and POE refused on 16/6. AR applied on 23/6; AR submitted on 23/6
14 days period.
I'm planning to go for Tier2. Thinking might be my company will sponsor me as I'm working for the company since from past 2 years. In case if Tier 2 gets refused as 322 (5) and 245 (CD) still exists on my profile, is it a good option to go for Tier 2 if so within how many days do I need to submit? I'm confused or do I have to go for JR. Please advice me on this.
Once again extremely thankful to all the experts.

Haroon1824
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Urgent ILR Query....!!!

Post by Haroon1824 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:45 am

Extremely thankful and support from the seniors and gurus
Hi Experts,
Finally received my AR dated 19/7/16 and it has been refused under the same grounds 322 (5) and 245 (CD). visa expired on 17/6. and POE refused on 16/6. AR applied on 23/6; AR submitted on 23/6
14 days period.
I'm planning to go for Tier2. Thinking might be my company will sponsor me as I'm working for the company since from past 2 years. In case if Tier 2 gets refused as 322 (5) and 245 (CD) still exists on my profile, is it a good option to go for Tier 2 if so within how many days do I need to submit? I'm confused or do I have to go for JR. Please advice me on this.
Once again extremely thankful to all the experts.

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CR001
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Re: Urgent ILR Query....!!!

Post by CR001 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:13 am

For Tier 2 General, your sponsor has to complete the full and proper RLMT process, which takes at least 28 days, this is to prove you have not been 'pre-selected' for a position, which would be difficult to disprove if you have worked for them for 2 years already. Are your employers an HO approved sponsor?
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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vinny
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by vinny » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:20 am

M.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

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Casa
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Tier1 ILR

Post by Casa » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:45 am

Seems doubtful. Frontier Mole is best placed to advise on this, but you can only be offered a position under Tier 2 if the position has been advertised and no settled applicant is available or suitable. It would appear that you have been pre-selected.
Guidance for sponsors:
"You may need to advertise the job you’re offering if it’s not on the shortage occupation list. This is known as carrying out the ‘resident labour market test’.
You must advertise any job you offer to a worker in the following categories:
Tier 2 (General)
Tier 2 (Minister of Religion) or Tier 5 (Religious Workers) unless it’s a non-essential position or involves living within a religious order (eg as a monk or nun)
Tier 5 (Creative and Sporting) in the creative and entertainment sector, unless you can explain why the job can’t be done by a settled worker
You must place 2 adverts. Follow the rules in the ‘How to carry out the resident labour market test’ section of the guidance for sponsors.

The adverts make sure that there are no suitable workers already living permanently in the UK. It must be a genuine vacancy"


and
Each advert must run in the UK for 28 days in most cases, either continuously or in 2 stages.
If you advertise in 2 stages, each advert still needs to run for a total of 28 days and neither stage can be less than 7 days.
You must be able to show that you didn’t find a suitable worker.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

monty87
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Re: Urgent ILR Query....!!!

Post by monty87 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:36 pm

Haroon1824 wrote: is it a good option to go for Tier 2 if so within how many days do I need to submit? I'm confused or do I have to go for JR.
You have 14 days to apply as it states on your refusal letter. Its difficult situation as HO may still refuse your tier 2 based on deception in previous application following their immigration guideline. JR will depend on whether it was a genuine mistake to evade tax and your weight of argument against HO. Anything outside point based system is arguable in court if you research on tax and public law, immigration rules, and caseworker guidance. Also, you are legally not allowed to work if you submit application by post until application result and not sure if your employer can wait until then. Posting application will get you closer to your set (LR) application and you can apply FLR(O) or FP if Tier 2 gets refused. I can only think of these few options based on the information you have given and current circumstances.

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:57 pm

Hi,
Once again thanks for the advice esply from gurus and senior advisers.
I have filed PAP and I received a text message from HO saying I don't have leave to remain and contact HO is this the normal standard procedure I mean system generated message cause I have already filed for PAP and waiting for the reply
Shall I contact and update Ho about pap or wait till 14 days.Thanks very much

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Hi,
Once again thanks for the advice esply from gurus and senior advisers.
I have filed PAP and I received a text message from HO saying I don't have leave to remain and contact HO is this the normal standard procedure I mean system generated message cause I have already filed for PAP and waiting for the reply
Shall I contact and update Ho about pap or wait till 14 days.Thanks very much

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:15 pm

Casa wrote:On what grounds does your solicitor believe that a new application will succeed where the first was refused. :?:
Hi,
Once again thanks for the advice esply from gurus and senior advisers.
I have filed PAP and I received a text message from HO saying I don't have leave to remain and contact HO is this the normal standard procedure I mean system generated message cause I have already filed for PAP and waiting for the reply
Shall I contact and update Ho about pap or wait till 14 days.Thanks very much

Haroon1824
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Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:28 pm

Re: Urgent ILR Query....!!!

Post by Haroon1824 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:42 pm

monty87 wrote:
Haroon1824 wrote: is it a good option to go for Tier 2 if so within how many days do I need to submit? I'm confused or do I have to go for JR.
You have 14 days to apply as it states on your refusal letter. Its difficult situation as HO may still refuse your tier 2 based on deception in previous application following their immigration guideline. JR will depend on whether it was a genuine mistake to evade tax and your weight of argument against HO. Anything outside point based system is arguable in court if you research on tax and public law, immigration rules, and caseworker guidance. Also, you are legally not allowed to work if you submit application by post until application result and not sure if your employer can wait until then. Posting application will get you closer to your set (LR) application and you can apply FLR(O) or FP if Tier 2 gets refused. I can only think of these few options based on the information you have given and current circumstances.
Hi,
Once again thanks for the advice esply from gurus and senior advisers.
I have filed PAP and I received a text message from HO saying I don't have leave to remain and contact HO is this the normal standard procedure I mean system generated message cause I have already filed for PAP and waiting for the reply
Shall I contact and update Ho about pap or wait till 14 days.Thanks very much

monty87
Member
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:05 am

Re: Urgent ILR Query....!!!

Post by monty87 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:14 pm

Haroon1824 wrote: I have filed PAP and I received a text message from HO saying I don't have leave to remain and contact HO is this the normal standard procedure I mean system generated message cause I have already filed for PAP and waiting for the reply
Shall I contact and update Ho about pap or wait till 14 days.Thanks very much
It is a standard procedure and anyone with no valid leave to remain can be reached via post, email, call or text message by CAPITA or Home Office. You should tell them via email or call them and inform them you are seeking legal advice and want to judicially review Home Office decision and send a reference number for PAP/JR.

Haroon1824
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Re: Tier1 ILR

Post by Haroon1824 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:36 am

Hi pap refused on the same grounds and mentioned accountant can't make mistake because it's you who has given the information. Shall I go for JR and I need to ask a quick question
If AR refused (18/7/16) can I still make a new application within 28 days and do I get right to work and also parallelly can I file JR as well. I know new application and JR can't be run parallel. Please I look forward from you asap.
Thanks very much gurus and experts as always for the valuable information.
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