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A typo here, I meant US.cs95tdg wrote:Her ILR on her old UK passport will no longer be valid now.
Is there any evidence she won't be able to re-enter the UK using it?cs95tdg wrote:Her ILR on her old UK passport will no longer be valid now.
Why would someone represent themself (at UK border) as an American (visitor?) with invalid ILR. (And they should pop up as British on the IO's screen anyway).kankerot wrote:So my wife is a dual US/UK citizen as my kids. But only difference is never applied for a UK passport and now we are looking at going to the USA.
...
So when it comes to returning to the UK which is the correct option?
UK queue as my wife is a UK citizen but no passport and the kids do have UK passports?
Yes.kankerot wrote:Then on return they enter the queue for British Nationals where she shows my kids UK passports and her nat cert and explains didnt get chance to get UK passport but will do next time?
The logical legal position is quite weird. Under Section 3(9) of the Immigration Act 1971 (as amended)noajthan wrote:If British represent yourself as British, act British and get in British line. Explain it all to the wo/man at the counter.
So, if the Immigration Officer asserts that the OP's wife is a British citizen, he ought to allow her in as she has the right of abode. If, as is his right, he refuses to accept that she is a British citizen, then unless her ILR has actually been revoked, she still has ILR, and he must admit her.(9)A person seeking to enter the United Kingdom and claiming to have the right of abode there shall prove it by means of—
- a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British citizen,
- a United Kingdom passport describing him as a British subject with the right of abode in the United Kingdom,
- an ID card issued under the Identity Cards Act 2006 describing him as a British citizen,
- an ID card issued under that Act describing him as a British subject with the right of abode in the United Kingdom, or
- a certificate of entitlement.
I think she would present herself as someone who has been given permission to stay in the UK without time limit. The conditions have changed, but not in any way relevant to the proposed returns. (She's a dual national, so her permission can still be revoked, though not as readily as before naturalisation.)noajthan wrote:Why would someone represent themself (at UK border) as an American (visitor?) with invalid ILR. (And they should pop up as British on the IO's screen anyway).
Would the OP's wife have to state the purpose of her journey to the UK in order to board? I thought the legal position was that normal Americans don't need visas in order to seek admission at British ports.noajthan wrote:Having done so on egressing US, presumably for perceived convenience and to avoid explanations, doesn't justify doing so at UK border.
I could not find it in Hansard either, but I did find a submission by the Immigration Law Practitioners’ Association for the Immigration Bill (now Act) 2014. As such it is not a ministerial or legislative statement, merely the opinion of a group of immigration lawyers. But it is worth reflecting on.Richard W wrote:As to the motivation of the law on proof of citizenship, I recall reading an explanation in Parliament that only passports were accepted as proof because otherwise too much time would be spent checking other documents. (Can an expert googler help here? I can't find it in Hansard.)
The notes in italics are mine.Checks are difficult
ILPA is familiar with dealing with persons under immigration control and makes the following comments. These are in part based on our experience of the civil penalty system for employers, see further our August 2013 response to Strengthening and simplifying the civil penalty scheme to prevent illegal working
- A "UK passport" does not mean that a person is a British citizen. There are many types of UK passport and some people who hold a UK passport are not exempt from immigration control. - This refers to the passports issued to British non-citizen nationals, such as BOCs and BNOs.
A naturalisation certificate does not prove that a person has British citizenship. The person may have renounced that citizenship subsequently or have had it taken away.
A person with a right of abode certificate is not necessarily a British citizen.- I know of at least one Commonwealth citizen with Right of Abode acquired before 1983, who is not a British citizen.
The IO should be able to ascertain traveller status based on targeted questioning plus the combination of invalid ILR, passport(s), also APP/APIS/DCS/PNR data and, ahem, other information that is munged together on her screen.secret.simon wrote:The notes in italics are mine.
I think that the OP should certainly be aware of the fact that a naturalisation certificate does not automatically mean that his spouse would have no issues at the border and should give some thought to the spouse applying for either a CoE-RoA or a British passport as soon as possible.
As an aside, any reason why the spouse did not apply for a British passport in the past two months?
That may make a big difference to the IO's attitude - all to the good. 'Never' suggested rather longer than 2 months since naturalisation. Recent precedent is there for admission despite the law, regardless of what has been recorded about her current ILR status.kankerot wrote:ILR since 2009, BC since May this year. Not applied for UK passport as wasn't thinking to travel as soon as we thought and yes its been over 2 months and we have let it slide.
In theory, yes. She would be entitled to admission to Ireland as the family member of an EEA national, you, so long as you aren't an Irish citizen. Bring your marriage certificate, and ideally the children's birth certificates as further evidence that your marriage is not a marriage of convenience.kankerot wrote:Travelling back via Dublin so would that make it any different? IAD to Dublin?
Where does she have to pass immigration?kankerot wrote:So she will be flying from DC to Dublin then onto Manchester.
These alternatives will all involve passing through British Immigration, which barring relevant examples I think we have discussed to death.kankerot wrote:Or is it best we change flights and she comes back via heathrow or Brussels/ Amsterdam etc?
And also the passport with the ILR stamp. She may need it if she faces UK Immigration.kankerot wrote:Best to take original cert.
noajthan wrote:If British represent yourself as British, act British and get in British line. Explain it all to the wo/man at the counter.
She should not deny that she is British. However, I think the journey will be smoothest if she presents her two American passports. Claiming to be British is likely to cause a delay, whether at Dublin, where as a British citizen she does have a right of entry at the (air)port, or at Manchester, where, as she has no passport evidencing right of abode directly or via endorsements, she does not.kankerot wrote:So does she declare she is a British citizen or just try to use her ILR in her passport?