SS route France Brit/Chinese Family Permit Success stories?

[nceeterminator]

She's French

[HereBeDragons]

Family permit granted Wednesday and finally received today.

I would have preferred to include a few extra documents, but it seems that was enough.

Which means my wife can make it to the USA to help her sister with her new baby (the first!) and still come back to Britain without visa/entry hassle. We're pleased.

So now the next bit, 5 year UK residence card application is next. Having been granted the FP, I'm hoping this won't be too strenuous.

Is it worth doing it straight away? Or hold off until near the end of the FP? I can't see any benefits of delaying.

[noajthan]

Family permit granted Wednesday and finally received today.

I would have preferred to include a few extra documents, but it seems that was enough.

Which means my wife can make it to the USA to help her sister with her new baby (the first!) and still come back to Britain without visa/entry hassle. We're pleased.

So now the next bit, 5 year UK residence card application is next. Having been granted the FP, I'm hoping this won't be too strenuous.

Is it worth doing it straight away? Or hold off until near the end of the FP? I can't see any benefits of delaying.

Just wait until you have adequate evidence. Its all about having a sponsor and the supporting evidence.
Don't take it for granted.

[HereBeDragons]

Sorry, you've lost me on 'having a sponsor'?

I was under the impression that if a FP is granted, it's basically an admission of acceptance that you have exercised your treaty rights (which is basically what we need to prove for SS).

[noajthan]

Sorry, you've lost me on 'having a sponsor'?

I was under the impression that if a FP is granted, it's basically an admission of acceptance that you have exercised your treaty rights (which is basically what we need to prove for SS).

I mean the non-EEA applicant for RC has to show they have a sponsor.
And some new entrants with FP do manage to have RC denied.
So apply due care and diligence.

[HereBeDragons]

Sorry, you've lost me on 'having a sponsor'?

I was under the impression that if a FP is granted, it's basically an admission of acceptance that you have exercised your treaty rights (which is basically what we need to prove for SS).

I mean the non-EEA applicant for RC has to show they have a sponsor.
And some new entrants with FP do manage to have RC denied.
So apply due care and diligence.

Roger that.

Once we get back and I have a bit more time, I'll put a more thorough thread/post of our experiences in France. It's a beaurocratic minefield and some of the things we did would have been so much easier if I'd known prior to getting here and started. The paperwork they ask for, private insurance, where to book prefecture appointments, etc. we had to work out ourselves. I'm sure our experience might benefit at least somebody!

[ptstream]

While bureaucracy rules in Europe over every aspect of life, in the UK is particularly focused on immigration matters.. for example you can sell a car in one day whilst in some European countries you have to fill in many forms.
A suspicious person may think this is not a coincidence.

[HereBeDragons]

Hi All,

We are: British citizen + non-EEA, married in the UK 2015.

Lived in France for most of 2016. Returned to UK late 2016 with a Family Permit.

I am now applying for my wife's UK residence card, using Colin Yeo's guidance of filling in the older EEA2 form instead of the most recent EEA FP one. Aware of the imminent rule change that may force us to use the newer form, so I'm trying to get this in before February.

Queries:

1) EEA2 form section 5 states for SS applications, if you have already entered with a FP, you do not need to fill in any of the sections regarding proving exercising treaty rights, or employment / self-employment, etc.

Exact wording : Please note: if you entered the UK with a valid EEA family permit issued under the Surinder Singh judgment as the family member of the British citizen named in section 3, you do not need to complete this section. If this is the case, tick the box to the right and then go to straight to section 10.

My question, this form is from 2014 and I'm not sure if the rules have since changed and I need to re-submit all of the documentation we originally submitted with the FP application. Do I need to submit everything again, regardless of what the EEA2 form says?

My current thoughts - Send it all anyway with a covering letter explaining why it's all been included. We have all the relevant docs from the FP application so might as well use them.

2) Another rule change I know about is more recent, regarding the UK citizen having to prove their exercising of treaty rights in the UK (even as a British sponsor with permanent residence).

Given this isn't mentioned on EEA2 at all (didn't apply back in 2014 so it wouldn't be), my thoughts are to include a covering letter and proof of my self-employment registration with HMRC (from September 2016), and maybe a bank statement showing economic activity / earnings etc. Does that sound feasible?

3) I know people have been refused for trying to circumvent the £18600 earnings for a spouse visa. Given I do earn this much, is it worth adding evidence that would prove this, and maybe even mentioning it on the covering letter?

Appreciate any advice from people who have been through this or know the latest rules.

Many thanks.

[MrSlyFox]

I'm not too sure which documents would be requested using the older form (EEA 2) but if you look at the guidance for the latest form (EEA FM) it still doesn't require any proof of exercising rights in the UK (but the form and guidance were written before the changes last November) so I'd say submit all the supporting documentation that the guidance suggests because the HO states:

The onus is upon the individual customers to ensure that they satisfy the
requirements set out in the guidance material that accompanies each and
every application form, at the time of submitting their application. If
additional information/documents are required during the processing of the
application, the case worker will request them in writing.

As the latest guidance doesn't request proof the British citizen to be qualified person you don't have to include it, but serval people have posted about their applications submitted many months before the changes but not decided yet, have been requested to supply further information. I would personally not include it if the guidance doesn't request it.

Page 8 of the Guidance to Form EEA FM:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf

Does request the same documents to prove excusing treaty rights in another state. (I'd add them even if you came on an EEA family permit and already showed them previously)

[secret.simon]

As the latest guidance doesn't request proof the British citizen to be qualified person you don't have to include it, but serval people have posted about their applications submitted many months before the changes but not decided yet, have been requested to supply further information.

The new regulation governing the SS route (Regulation 9) came into effect on 25th November last year. And it explicitly provided that all applications made, but not decided on the 25th November, would be decided based on the new Regulation.

You may use the old forms before 1st Feb if you wish, but make sure you address all the points in the current Regulation.

Also see this earlier post.

[HereBeDragons]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

That reinforces my thoughts, that despite them saying it's not required, better to send it as backup just in case. It's all still in the file that was returned from the FP application so isn't arduous to collate.

Some of the documents are in French (residence contract, supporting evidence, etc.), which for the FP application in Paris, we didn't need to be translated. Now we are sending them to a uk department, I guess I should have them translated? Professional apostiled and rubber stamped, or just a general translation?

Luckily the important documents that are still requested and required for EEA2 like marriage certificate, etc. are all in English so that saves some trouble.

I'll continue to flesh out my UK self-employment (it's our backup plan for a regular spouse visa should this all go wrong regarding Brexit, etc.) so will have a bundle of relevant documentation if they ask for it later.

EEA2 asks for proof of relationship, passports, proof of UK address for both parties, and that's about it if you've ticked the 'FP already received' box. It almost doesn't seem like enough....

[HereBeDragons]

As the latest guidance doesn't request proof the British citizen to be qualified person you don't have to include it, but serval people have posted about their applications submitted many months before the changes but not decided yet, have been requested to supply further information.

The new regulation governing the SS route (Regulation 9) came into effect on 25th November last year. And it explicitly provided that all applications made, but not decided on the 25th November, would be decided based on the new Regulation.

You may use the old forms before 1st Feb if you wish, but make sure you address all the points in the current Regulation.

Also see this earlier post.

Thanks for that.

What does 7) mean in plain English? It appears to have been specifically written in riddles full of double negatives to throw the unsuspecting off course!

[MrSlyFox]

As the latest guidance doesn't request proof the British citizen to be qualified person you don't have to include it, but serval people have posted about their applications submitted many months before the changes but not decided yet, have been requested to supply further information.

The new regulation governing the SS route (Regulation 9) came into effect on 25th November last year. And it explicitly provided that all applications made, but not decided on the 25th November, would be decided based on the new Regulation.

You may use the old forms before 1st Feb if you wish, but make sure you address all the points in the current Regulation.

Also see this earlier post.

True I'm justing saying the form isn't asking for the information introduced by the changes and I wouldn't want a person accused of trying to circumvent the immigration rules by knowing the law as the HO has said previously when people quote the regulations (or in this case) take information from them not asked by the application form/guidance.

Regulation Nine
(4) This regulation does not apply—
(a)where the purpose of the residence in the EEA State was as a means for circumventing any immigration laws applying to non-EEA nationals to which F would otherwise be subject (such as any applicablerequirement under the 1971 Act to have leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom); or

[MrSlyFox]

As the latest guidance doesn't request proof the British citizen to be qualified person you don't have to include it, but serval people have posted about their applications submitted many months before the changes but not decided yet, have been requested to supply further information.

The new regulation governing the SS route (Regulation 9) came into effect on 25th November last year. And it explicitly provided that all applications made, but not decided on the 25th November, would be decided based on the new Regulation.

You may use the old forms before 1st Feb if you wish, but make sure you address all the points in the current Regulation.

Also see this earlier post.

Thanks for that.

What does 7) mean in plain English? It appears to have been specifically written in riddles full of double negatives to throw the unsuspecting off course!

Have you had a read of this?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ns-_v1.pdf

[HereBeDragons]

The new regulation governing the SS route (Regulation 9) came into effect on 25th November last year. And it explicitly provided that all applications made, but not decided on the 25th November, would be decided based on the new Regulation.

You may use the old forms before 1st Feb if you wish, but make sure you address all the points in the current Regulation.

Also see this earlier post.

Thanks for that.

What does 7) mean in plain English? It appears to have been specifically written in riddles full of double negatives to throw the unsuspecting off course!

Have you had a read of this?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ns-_v1.pdf

I had read that before, thanks. But I've just had a re-read having been staring at the forms all afternoon and it makes more sense on the second viewing.

So apparently I now need to be a qualified person. Which is ok, I just need to send off my self-employment confirmations and some bank statements to prove income from it. That should be easy enough.

Stage 2 will be hard for them to disprove as they've already given us a family permit. Happy to fight this on appeal should it come to it.

Stage 3 and 4 is mostly not compatible with EU law and I'd happily fight this on appeal.

I'm actually still technically working in France doing some consultancy and paying taxes etc. Had the clients so might as well keep it up.

At this stage, my wife is due to have our first child in mid-march, but her FP expires late February. As long as we get the application in, with all the required documents, I'm not overly bothered if it's refused or not, as long as we have an in-country appeal. With a new baby, we have no plans to go very far for a while so I'm happy to fight for our rights, despite the recent new rules.

So, I'll be including all of the FP application stuff (translated?), and proof of my self employment in the UK.

With all of that, they can only refuse on stage 3 and 4, which isn't compatible with eu law anyway.

[noajthan]

Stage 3 and 4 is mostly not compatible with EU law and I'd happily fight this on appeal.

I'm actually still technically working in France doing some consultancy and paying taxes etc. Had the clients so might as well keep it up.

...

Suggest be careful about that if you now have to show you are a qualified person in UK. RIP Eind.

[HereBeDragons]

Stage 3 and 4 is mostly not compatible with EU law and I'd happily fight this on appeal.

I'm actually still technically working in France doing some consultancy and paying taxes etc. Had the clients so might as well keep it up.

...

Suggest be careful about that if you now have to show you are a qualified person in UK. RIP Eind.

Yup, only kept it up because Brexit. Hedging my bets. Don't want to dispose of French residency just yet, at least until we know what's likely to happen next.