8-years cap

[saleemkhan1]

Dear experts,

Hope all are well! I came to UK in June 2009 on student visa. I had been student until 2011 and after this I got post study work permit for two years. In March 2014, I took admission in PhD. My PhD supervisor had been ill for long time and eventually he got retired. My second supervisor had no expertise in my research where he could not supervise me well. This university asked me we can give you Mphil and you then start phd somewhere else. Due to this I wanted to change the university, and I started apply to other universities to carry on work on my PhD. I got accepted in one University, they offered me unconditional offer letter and I then paid the 50% tuition fee. After few days, I received an email where they said we have rejected your admission. They mentioned the reasons;
There are two areas that you do not meet the UKVI requirements:-
1. Progression – as you have not completed your current PhD programme within the duration of your current visa, you have therefore not met the UKVI requirements to progress to another PhD programme.
2. Students studying at PhD level and request to undertake a further PhD programme of study must not exceed 8 years study in the UK. Combining your previous study in the UK and also the duration of a PhD at Dundee you will have exceeded the 8 year time limit.
I do not know why they do not know that a PhD student can complete his/her Phd in other university.
And I also asked the university to provide me CAS letter for two years, I do not need for three or more years. Second, how can a student complete one phd and then take another phd.
On this basis of the above scenario, could you please help and guide what shall I do in this difficult situation! I have questions
(1) In the worst scenario, if the University asked me to leave the country and apply from outside UK for visa. Will this affect my ten years time here, after that I will get ILR? I never been unlawful here in UK.
(2) If the new university offer me two years CAS letter and put me as a transfer student, will I get visa within the UK?
(3) I got offer from one other university, they have asked me to start PhD from the start, If I start as a fresh student, will the UKBA give me visa from inside?
(4) what is best, shall I apply for extension on Mphil basis or shall I apply to extend my visa on PhD, if it is from outside in both cases?
(5) what is any alternative way to get this issue and remain here.
(6) My total time here in the UK as a student is around 5 years and 8 months and total time included student and work permit 8 years.

Many thanks

Regards,
Saleem

[sah10406]

As you have completed a postgraduate research course, you are subject to the 8-year cap. You need to calculate how much time you have spent in the UK on student visas, including the period of time you are asking for on the new course. If it exceeds 8-year cap, you cannot apply at all.

If a new application does not take you over the 8-year cap, you can apply but only from outside the UK because you do not meet the academic progress rule.

[saleemkhan1]

As you have completed a postgraduate research course, you are subject to the 8-year cap. You need to calculate how much time you have spent in the UK on student visas, including the period of time you are asking for on the new course. If it exceeds 8-year cap, you cannot apply at all.

If a new application does not take you over the 8-year cap, you can apply but only from outside the UK because you do not meet the academic progress rule.

Thanks for your reply! I did not complete the post graduate research yet, i want to transfer to other sponsor and want to complete there because it is on the home office page that a phd student can complete his study in other sponsor as well. And I want to apply for two years visa not three years. My total time on student visas is around 5 years and six months and still need two and half years to get to the 8 year cap. My total time in the UK is 8 years including student visa and work permit.
Can a student not apply from outside if his/her time exceeds 8 year cap?
In my situation, shall I extend my visa on Mphil or it is better to make a new application on other university, they might give me 2 years cas or might i apply from outside. which option is better for me.

Thanks in advance

[sah10406]

I did not complete the post graduate research yet, i want to transfer to other sponsor and want to complete there because it is on the home office page that a phd student can complete his study in other sponsor as well.

I mention the 8 year cap because you said you were coming out with an MPhil. That is a postgraduate research qualification, which then triggers the 8 year cap for any further application.

Can a student not apply from outside if his/her time exceeds 8 year cap?

No. That's what the cap is for, a time limit on time spent on student and Tier 4 visas.

In my situation, shall I extend my visa on Mphil or it is better to make a new application on other university, they might give me 2 years cas or might i apply from outside. which option is better for me.

I advise you speak to the International Student adviser at your university about your options.

[saleemkhan1]

Thanks! The students advisor has rejected my application in other university on the basis of completing one phd and then get another one. She didn't mention I am a transfer student.

Let suppose if the other university offers me admission and says you should apply from outside even if it exceeds the 8 years cap. Is it possible then!

Thanks

[saleemkhan1]

Hi,

My registration has been downgraded from PhD to MPhil due to slower than expected progress. The reason of my slow progress was my severe depression as I had been constantly taken remedies and counselling. Now I need to extend my visa, can I extend my visa from inside due to my health situation as I am still having regular check and treatment from my GP and the university is aware of it.

Thanks

[sah10406]

Now I need to extend my visa, can I extend my visa from inside due to my health situation as I am still having regular check and treatment from my GP and the university is aware of it.

Get advice from your university about this. They know your very specific situation.

[saleemkhan1]

Hi,

I have a query regarding 8 years cap. I am an international student student of phd. I started my phd and after two years the university downgraded my registration to Mphil. I don't want to pursue MPhil. I have got offer in Phd in other university and they are agreed to issue me a CAS letter on the condition to leave the UK and apply from outside (home country). I checked with the student advisor whether the time I spent here in first phd will be included in the 8-years cap? She said "NO". You still have have spent three years in your first phd and you still have five years left, you should go as soon as possible and make application from overseas. She is aware about my previous studies leaves in the UK.
I have been in the UK for 5 years and 10 months including my first phd leave. If I apply from overseas, will the UKVI take into account the time I spent in my first phd?

Thanks

[saleemkhan1]

Dear experts,

I just read on the advice.net website page;

"For a tier 4 visa applications submitted before 10 august 2015 , the home office will base their calculation on the course start and end dates given on visa letter or CAS used in previous visa applications to enter or remain in the UK and the CAS submitted with the current visa application. Students on courses of 12 months or more granted permission to enter the UK for four months after the course end date; their additional periods of leave granted before and after the course start date should not be included when calculating whether MIGRANTS have exceeded the time limit"
IS this TRUE?!

(2) " for tier 4 visa applications submitted on OR after 10 august 2015, the calculation will be based on the durations of the visa 'from the valid from date to the valid until date".

Is this true? ! If these both information are true then I believe it will help students calculating their correct calculations.

Many thanks

[CR001]

Please desist from starting multiple topics with the same question.

[saleemkhan1]

Sorry! But there is so much confusions and I am stuck with them. Please reply , it will be highly appreciated.

Thanks

[Sir Murphy]

Hi,

I have a query regarding 8 years cap. I am an international student student of phd. I started my phd and after two years the university downgraded my registration to Mphil. I don't want to pursue MPhil. I have got offer in Phd in other university and they are agreed to issue me a CAS letter on the condition to leave the UK and apply from outside (home country). I checked with the student advisor whether the time I spent here in first phd will be included in the 8-years cap? She said "NO". You still have have spent three years in your first phd and you still have five years left, you should go as soon as possible and make application from overseas. She is aware about my previous studies leaves in the UK.
I have been in the UK for 5 years and 10 months including my first phd leave. If I apply from overseas, will the UKVI take into account the time I spent in my first phd?

Thanks

Hi saleemkhan,
Regarding 8 years cap, if your previous Tier 4 visa was issued to study PhD and you are unable to complete the programme as your registration was downgraded to MPhil. It will be very difficult to satisfy the progress rules in accordance to the Tier 4 policy guidance as your initial leave was issued to study a PhD. If to say you successful completed the PhD it would have been very easy for you to get accepted and issue another cas letter within the UK. However, this is my personal understanding of your case but you can seek more advice from international student adviser of any reputable university. Good luck.

[saleemkhan1]

Thanks for your nice reply!

I have changed my mind, I want to extend my visa on MPhil, and for that I have been told to apply from outside. I have got ready all my documents. Can you please reply me!

The University has issued me a CAS letter for one year on MPhil. They mentioned I need one year to complete my study, the student applies from outside so he does not require academic progression. The student has paid all the tuition fees and there is no outstanding due to him. The student has been working on MPhil since one year and he requires more time complete his study.

Do you think I will get visa or it is risky as I have got 40 points (10 funds and 30 of CAS)?

Apart from this, my immigration history is very clear, never been refused in past.

I also want to bring my spouse with me, can I put her name and detail in my application and can apply at the same time!
What is a good answer to be write in the application where they are asking why you got NI number?!
Thanks

[Sir Murphy]

Hi Saleemkhan1,

1. In reference to your previous post, you have studied Mphil for two years with your present Tier 4 visa and you need another one year to complete the programme with another sponsor. From my personal experience as a student like you, it will be too risky to apply for MPhil as the possibility is 50/50. However, it will be better if you can persuade your new sponsor to issue you a CAS letter to complete your previous PhD or apply for need PhD programme.

2. It is possible to bring your spouse as Tier 4 dependant if you are married and can afford to do so, but my advise in your case is to apply for your visa first and after your application is granted, then apply for your spouse and you both can travel back to the UK at the same time or can join you as soon as possible. Make sure you have enough money to cover you and your spouse maintenance funds in your bank account for minimum of 28 days or more before you submit the application.

3. If you have been issued NI Number in the UK, you answer "YES" and fill the number in the appropriate box.

4. Please take your time to read Tier 4 policy guidance version 06/2017 with special attention to page 21+

5. Lastly, moderator, senior members and other gurus can correct any mistake or misleading information as the advise is based on my personal experience. Good luck.

[sah10406]

Do you think I will get visa or it is risky as I have got 40 points (10 funds and 30 of CAS)?

What specific aspect of the Tier 4 eligibility are you concerned about not meeting?

I also want to bring my spouse with me, can I put her name and detail in my application and can apply at the same time!

Yes.

What is a good answer to be write in the application where they are asking why you got NI number?!

The truth! What is your concern here exactly?

[sah10406]

From my personal experience as a student like you, it will be too risky to apply for MPhil as the possibility is 50/50.

Can you clarify what rule you think OP would fall foul of, and why their situation puts them at high risk of a refusal?

[Sir Murphy]

"sah10406"][quote="Sir Murphy"]From my personal experience as a student like you, it will be too risky to apply for MPhil as the possibility is 50/50.

"Can you clarify what rule you think OP would fall foul of, and why their situation puts them at high risk of a refusal?

Attn: sah10406
From Saleemkhan1 previous post, he started PhD in March 2014 and this programme was downgraded to MPhil after two years and now seek admission from another institution for visa extension in order to complete the MPhil not the PhD, previous CAS was issued to study PhD. However, Mphil takes between 12-24 months from start to finish as most PhD takes between 36-48 months for full-time international student. I am not suggesting that the application will not be granted but should be prepare to answer questions during the credibility interview. Thanks for your observation and selfless service.

[saleemkhan1]

Thanks for your replies.

Regarding NI they ask in general application, if you got the NI what is the number. Why did you get this number. I got NI number when I got PSW and applied and then started work. So the best answer is to say for post study work I got NI.

I think you missed my question regarding visa extension on MPhil. I did not change my sponsor, I wanted but now I have changed my mind. I want to complete MPhil and therefore going to extend visa on it because I have not completed yet due illness and appeals.

The Uni has issued me a CAS and I have maintenance for more than 28 days. So I have got the required 40 points. I am gonna apply from outside the UK. People says oh you applying from outside the UK so they will refuse your application. I said why they would refuse. The University mentioned in the CAS letter that the student requires more time to complete his study and he has been working on it since last year. And I have maintenance for more than 28 days which fulfilling the conditions of mine and my spouse which altogether around 16000 pounds and I kept in my account more than it for long time. I think there shouldnt be any issue with refusal cuz my history is very clear.
Thanks

[Sir Murphy]

Hi,
I wish you the best of luck.