Romanian Marrying a Syirian citizen in RO or the UK

[Epsilonn]

Hello everyone, my name is Nicu (Nick), I am a Romanian working and living in the UK for the past 3 years and I need you professional advice in a very delicate matter. My story is described in the following paragraphs.

I have been having a very tight long distance relationship for one year (facebook, WhatsApp, Viber, Skype) with my girlfriend who is a Syrian citizen. She lives in a war-free zone in Aleppo in Northern Syria and she has a good position regarding family / job / home.

Last week we met each other in Beirut, Lebanon, where we say each other for the first time in real life and we have spent a very relaxing week and we felt so good with each other.

In the same time, me met there to get the answer for an application for a marriage visit visa for the UK which, obviously was rejected on the grounds that we have never met before applying and that she might come here and never go back after the 6 months... The portfolio was very well built (120 pages with everything, documents, online conversations + we had lawyer etc...).

Long story short, now we have see each other and we also found out the answer to our application. The problems I need help with are as follows.

1.0. I read and ask a lot of questions and I am being told that people from Syria, due to the situation in their country, simply because they are Syrians, get rejected on any kind of application in the UK and mainly everywhere... I am also told to marry her in Romania after I apply for a visa for her to invite her in my home country. There things are supposed to be not that hard, after marriage I mean.

2.0. I can invite her from Romania (I know the steps I need to take in ordder for me to do this) but... she is from Syria... and I need that visa for Romania so we can feel peace and quiet as we can go ahead with the other documents.

2.1. How long should I call there for? I just need enough to get married and do other documents so she can stay there until I manage to get her in the UK.

2.2. On this topic, I am in the UK now but my dad can help me with address for her and everything else. SHould I go to Romania in person to do the documents / declaration or my dad, for being my dad, is good enough?

2.3. I have Romanian ID and basically I am a Romanian resident, but the address in the ID is different from that of my father's. Would that be a problem?

2.4. I want to attach to the application and the other formalities a letter / a story in which I relate all about us, the fact we need each other, we love each other and that we want to be together + pictures in Beirut + snapshots of online conversations to show everything is genuine and well intended + to tell I want her to meet my family + I want to marry her. Should I do all these things? I just want them to know the truth and to have good heart and let her there without thinking of her citizenship.

3.0. In the UK, my lawyer tells me about an application called 'EEA Entrey Clearance Application' that costs a lot of money but this is different and it came out a month ago. He says that with this application I can call her here without having known each other for 2 years, without 6 months of payslips or bank statements (just a month) and withot her having to go back to Syria to apply for a 'Spouse Visa' as we can apply then here for a 'Family Permit' as the second part of this application (before the end of the 6 months). Shoe would come here as someone who strictcly depends on me with money and all. She does not need to show proof of employment and no one cares what she does after the 6 months!!! Am I eligible for this? What do you think of this?

I thank you very much and please help me. I need to resolve this matter and go through everything considering each and every detail. I want to know basically how someone like me can bring someone like my girlfriend to either Romania or the UK.

[tmonaghan]

With Brexit, the Home Office makes it harder for EU Citizens to bring their NON-EU Citizens into the UK because the UK is on its way to leave the EU.

British Citizens wanting to bring their NON-EU Citizen spouses into the UK have it harder as the result of financial conditions attached to certain categories of Visas.

There is not a chance in the world that the Home Office will approve a Visa to someone you just met from a third Country like Syria.

You are free to marry whoever you love; if it had been a couple of years ago; maybe the situation would have been different.

Again; you would need to show evidence of a long term relationship to prove that you have been in a genuine relationship otherwise the Home Office will reject your application because you failed to show that your marriage is not one of convenience.

It would probably be easier if you brought your future spouse into Romania and lived there.

We don't know yet the conditions imposed on EU Citizens post Brexit if they wanted to come in to the UK to settle.

Wait until the Home Office announces the new terms imposed on EU Citizens.

Perhaps there would be some provisions for EU Citizens wishing to come to the UK with their NON-EU Citizen spouses.

[Epsilonn]

Hello and thank you very much for your answer.

Basically I will start a visit visa for RO. I need to convince the people there of our relationship and I will show all proof (tickets, pictures, onlione conversations). I will also add a cover letter in which I describe our story.

Should I mention that I want to marry her? What is your opinion on this? How do I get to the heart to the clearance officer from Romania (or in general, provided our relationship)?

Also, when eventually I manage to pull this off and I am married with her, she will be living in Romania and I will be working in the UK. I will be able to apply for a Family permit, won't I? It should be a lot easier to bring her in the UK this way, right?

[Richard W]

And if you do marry in Romania, in theory you have a good document - a Romanian marriage certificate - that would in theory enable you two to cross into Hungary, travel within the Schengen area to a channel port, pass through British Immigration on the continent, and reach the UK. Can you afford some time in Paris for your honeymoon?

[Epsilonn]

Hello Richard. You mean, after marriage I could go into the UK with my wife without applying for an UK visa???

[Richard W]

Free movement!

The danger would be suspicion that your wife had only married you to get away from Syria. You may well need to show you have a job in the UK, especially at the British border (in France or Belgium).

[Epsilonn]

Richard, but in order to get her to Romania; just to get the visit visa, how do I get them convinced it is all good and clean? I have pics with her in Beirut, online conversations, she lives in war-free zone there, she has a good family, a good job as a teacher, I have a good job in the UK as a design engineer, all is clean, good and well intended.

How do I convince the Immigration Office from Romania to let her come there when everything is on my expense and we love each other and we have known each other for one year now?

[Richard W]

This is probably the wrong place to ask about domestic Romanian immigration law.

You may need to research other accessible borders and legalisation of marriage certificates. (You may need to process several different certificates.) It seems that your girlfriend got a visa for Lebanon, which is a promising start. Turkey-Greece-Italy-France is one conceivable route, but I don't know how difficult it would be for your girlfriend to travel to Turkey, say after you married her in Syria.

[Epsilonn]

But.... how can I marry her in Syria? The situation there does not allow people like me, just visiting, inside the country...

Also, I am thinking... is there a way I can marry her in Beirut for example? Without any of us being residents there? What can you teach me about this?

[tmonaghan]

Beirut? Is not her home country so the Home Office will be even more suspicious about the marriage... The problem is that you sound to be in a hurry... You have to show to the Home Office that events occurred naturally. Marry your Fiance in Syria and translate the Marriage Certificate into Romanian and English. Move her to Romania, let her live there for while with you. Once we know about the new UK Immigration rules applying to EU Citizens married with NON-European Spouses post Brexit; apply in due course for the right to move to the UK with your wife.

[Epsilonn]

I am not in a hurry. To be totally honest with you, I am a very patient person... it is just the situation in her country and so many questions revolving around my mind and all these uncertainties... you understand.

For the moment I need to basically find a way thet... actually works.

But how can I go to Syria?? I am not allowed there. What can I apply for to get there and where in Syria to marry? There is no Embassy there...

And then, once I can pull this off, as my wife, she will be able to come to Romania with no issues?

Please teach me more about this and thank you very much for taking your time.

[tmonaghan]

Syria has been taken apart by war; Its people forced out of their Country and refugees migrating to Europe by the millions. As much as I would like you to succeed in making it possible to be together; wherever you move in Europe your partner will be seen as someone who wants to flee her own Country for a better life. And likely to try to gain your love, especially with a view to marriage. (Woo) You might not be aware of it; and that is why there are Immigration laws globally to protect vulnerable people from a marriage of convenience. It seems that you are faced with an impossible situation; and the UK; today; will never allow her leave to enter even if both are married. The Home Office will always view your marriage suspiciously, and that is because of the suspicion that the HO Caseworkers have got a duty to refuse your application for a Visa in spite of how much you care for her. The same will apply to your Home Country, Romania.

[Epsilonn]

We can see each other in Beirut anyway.

I want people to see our relationship as a genuine one. A visa in my country would enable her to come there for a few weeks with the reason of visiting my family after ourmeeting in Beirut (which was 2 weeks ago).

She will have everything there (bank account, address etc...).

AND I am the one to question in case rules are broken! This is what the application states. I will be resposnsible for anything, not her!

Please teach me a better way. There must be a way in this world that would bring us together. Please give me hope and teach me the better way.

[tmonaghan]

Any one else with an experienced background who could help Epsiloon? Thanks, Trevor

[Epsilonn]

Also you are saying that Syrians are refused entry anywhere in the world no matter the circumastancesx just for being from Syria? We are all humans. WHat is the point of the visa then if this a certainty? Please teach me the better way then because I know every problem has a solution.

[tmonaghan]

Visas are meant for people that can benefit the economy of Countries making certain categories of Visas available to migrants. Who can bring expertise to occupy some jobs that remain vacant when businesses and enterprises have difficulties to hire the right candidates. As a EU Citizen, you don't need a Visa, but have an obligation to lawfully reside in the UK in accordance with the Resident Directive 2004/38/EC. Once the UK leaves the EU; your rights to remain will be affected by Brexit. Especially for those with NON-EU Citizen partners. British Citizens have a hard time when they want to bring back into the UK their NON-EU Citizen families. So, the question would be why should it be easier for NON-British Citizens to settle in the UK? Brexit will rectify this unfairness; I am a remain voter. I wished we could stay in the EU. But it seems that a slightly higher proportion of British Citizens voted to leave the EU as the result of the large number of immigrants coming into the UK to take advantage of a better life quality and misusing their rights to apply for benefits or occupying Social Housing when British Citizens have to wait years before they can be allocated with a Council flat.

[Richard W]

British Citizens have a hard time when they want to bring back into the UK their NON-EU Citizen families. So, the question would be why should it be easier for NON-British Citizens to settle in the UK? Brexit will rectify this unfairness; I am a remain voter.

We don't know that Epsilonn can't afford a settlement visa for his beloved. However, at present, he isn't qualified for one, as he is not yet 'settled' in the UK.

The marriage visit visa was probably rightly refused, simply on the plausibility of return. It looks as though marriage in Beirut is possible. I don't know the details. Marriage rules vary from place to place, and the nationality of the parties may be relevant. I know of a British-Lao couple living in Thailand who found that the easiest way to get married was on a marriage visa visit to the UK! (Actually, it needed two trips.)

[Epsilonn]

I have been working here ever since I came here and when Brexit will happen, I will have had 5 years of residence in the UK with jobs, taxes paid and all records clean.

I might be able to apply for EEA entry clearance or Family Permit just because of the fact that I am working and I have a good situation. The requirements for this kind of visa would be to either work or be settled here. Well I am settgled yet but I have a good record and stable job.

Now I understand that would be very hard to obtain directly from the UK, allo given our current circumstances.

But lawyers tell me that I can apply for that (and it is very very costy...) and that means she comes here as a dependent of mine and within 6 months of stay and before the visa expires, we get married and apply for indefinite leave to remain. And chances would be bigger. This is not a marriage visit visa, I repeat this is something called EEA entry clearance and I would only have to show 1 month of payslips, 1 month of bank statements, no amount of deposit in bank required and she would not have to go back home to apply for something else after ther 6 months of visa to retgurn to me in the UK.

Basically, the lawyers are telling me this is an advantage for EU citizens wanting to bring their non-EU partners here and I would be the only want to be questioned in case something goes wrong.

Please understand I support her, I should be questioned for her, I am responsible for her, I look out for her. So why so complicated. I show proof of relationship and all + I will be the one sponsoring everything.

Marriage in Beirut? I need to be resident there... So please tell me something that I should do to raise my morale. Please.

[tmonaghan]

EEA Entry Clearance? Try typing that into Google... Extended family members and unmarried partners aren’t guaranteed to get a permit. You have to show that you have been together for at least two years. Your individual circumstances will be considered when you apply. Again, if you marry and applied, your application is very likely to be rejected on the basis that you entered into a marriage of convenience because your partner comes from Syria. The Home Office will write a refusal letter indicating that nothing prevents you from relocating to Romania and to have a life together there.

[CR001]

and that means she comes here as a dependent of mine and within 6 months of stay and before the visa expires, we get married and apply for indefinite leave to remain

Such grossly incorrect advice from your 'solicitor'. I honestly hope you didn't pay to hear such appalling advice. Your partner cannot apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (which is a UK Immigration route NOT an EEA FM route).

[Epsilonn]

EEA Entry Clearance? Try typing that into Google... Extended family members and unmarried partners aren’t guaranteed to get a permit. You have to show that you have been together for at least two years. Your individual circumstances will be considered when you apply. Again, if you marry and applied, your application is very likely to be rejected on the basis that you entered into a marriage of convenience because your partner comes from Syria. The Home Office will write a refusal letter indicating that nothing prevents you from relocating to Romania and to have a life together there.

What do you mean by the last sentence... once married I apply to be together here with her... don't I have the right to be with my wife??? So basically what can I do? I am in love with someone and I support her financially and everything... the government should promote the general WELLBEING. She is not a person of influence to bring ideologies into another country nor does she represent any threat but she will be a person dependent only to me.

How do I accomplish this. Let us leave the UK out of this for the moment. Let us focus on Romania, my home country where I have a good situation and I have a house and I can help her there... to keep her safe there while I figure out a way for UK... I need to obtain a visit visa to get her to Romania and I am to be the one responsible for everything happening there while she spends time on that territory.

How can I be with my girlfriend (who is from Syria) anywhere in this world provided I am responsible for her and she is depending entirely on me??? Come on... there should be a way to solve this problem. Please help me find a way.

[Epsilonn]

and that means she comes here as a dependent of mine and within 6 months of stay and before the visa expires, we get married and apply for indefinite leave to remain

Such grossly incorrect advice from your 'solicitor'. I honestly hope you didn't pay to hear such appalling advice. Your partner cannot apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain (which is a UK Immigration route NOT an EEA FM route).

No I did not pay and I ask now for advice here...

So please teach me another way... as I really know there should be a way as long as I guarantee with everything regarding financial support and relationship genuinity.

Would 2 years of relationship and proofs for this help me in any way? But first how can I get the officials in Romania get her the visa with all proofs for our relationship. How can I get people to understand that I love a girl from Syria and I need to be with her???

[Richard W]

But lawyers tell me that I can apply for that (and it is very very costy...) and that means she comes here as a dependent of mine and within 6 months of stay and before the visa expires, we get married and apply for indefinite leave to remain.

This sounds like a garbled version of the process under the purely UK domestic law. The steps are:

1) The *settled* person brings his fiancée to the Uk under a fiancée visa.
2) They marry within 6 months of her arrival, and apply for further leave to remain
3) 30 months later, she applies for a further 30 months of further leave to remain.
4) At the end of 5 years of marriage, she then applies for indefinite leave to remain.

(Note: Timings are approximate.)

And chances would be bigger. This is not a marriage visit visa, I repeat this is something called EEA entry clearance and I would only have to show 1 month of payslips, 1 month of bank statements, no amount of deposit in bank required and she would not have to go back home to apply for something else after ther 6 months of visa to retgurn to me in the UK.

That's the EEA family permit. This is the one where the objection that the marriage is a marriage of convenience is raised. This is where you may have to juggle your finances between trips to Beirut and fighting your way through the appeal system.

Marriage in Beirut? I need to be resident there... So please tell me something that I should do to raise my morale. Please.

I don't believe so. Certainly one can find statements to the contrary. One problem may be your religions - are you fortunate enough to belong to the same denomination?

[Epsilonn]

1) The *settled* person brings his fiancée to the Uk under a fiancée visa.

Can I do this or I need to have 2 years of history with my girlfriend? Or are we eligible for this? Any issues that she is Syrian in this case?


2) They marry within 6 months of her arrival, and apply for further leave to remain
3) 30 months later, she applies for a further 30 months of further leave to remain.
4) At the end of 5 years of marriage, she then applies for indefinite leave to remain.

(Note: Timings are approximate.)

And chances would be bigger. This is not a marriage visit visa, I repeat this is something called EEA entry clearance and I would only have to show 1 month of payslips, 1 month of bank statements, no amount of deposit in bank required and she would not have to go back home to apply for something else after ther 6 months of visa to retgurn to me in the UK.

That's the EEA family permit. This is the one where the objection that the marriage is a marriage of convenience is raised. This is where you may have to juggle your finances between trips to Beirut and fighting your way through the appeal system.

One problem may be your religions - are you fortunate enough to belong to the same denomination?

No, I am Christian... would that be a problem there? Would I need to get married at the Romanian Embassy? Because they stated that I need to be a resident there...

[tmonaghan]

To Epsilonn

I have been having a very tight long distance relationship for one year (facebook, WhatsApp, Viber, Skype) with my girlfriend who is a Syrian citizen. She lives in a war-free zone in Aleppo in Northern Syria and she has a good position regarding family / job / home.

Last week we met each other in Beirut, Lebanon, where we say each other for the first time in real life and we have spent a very relaxing week and we felt so good with each other.

In the same time, me met there to get the answer for an application for a marriage visit visa for the UK which, obviously was rejected on the grounds that we have never met before applying and that she might come here and never go back after the 6 months...

Marriage of convenience, marriage of convenience does not apply to genuine relationships. You have been in a relationship for about a year with someone over the Internet from a Third Country that has been black listed by the Home Office, and you only met her face to face once for a week. Your new partner as you told us, was refused a Visit Visa because you had never met before.

Marriages of convenience only apply to marriages (or durable relationships) between EU citizens and non-EU nationals; a marriage between an EU citizen and a non-EU citizen who does not have a regular residence status is per definition a marriage of convenience; and a marriage between an EU citizen and a non-EU citizen is automatically connected with abuse and fraud.

This seems to fit with the obvious trend to make migration of Third Country nationals to the EU more and more difficult.

Abuse of rights, “The concept of marriage of convenience – which is not protected under EU law – also covers a marriage which is maintained for the purpose of enjoying a right of residence by a family member who is not a national of a Member State.”

Article 35 of Directive 2004/38 provides that ‘Member States may adopt the necessary measures to refuse, terminate or withdraw any right conferred by the Directive in the case of abuse of rights or fraud, such as marriages of convenience’ In case there is a genuine relationship, a decision to marry may have the purpose to obtain residence rights.

You have millions of single ladies in the UK; so why not marring one of them? This is how the Home Office Caseworkers think.

One British Citizen made sure to follow the rules that applied to the “Surinder Singh” route. Requiring him to have lived and worked elsewhere in the EU. Unfortunately, in his case the HO Caseworkers were not satisfied because the British Citizen knew inside out how to circonvent UK Immigration Rules to bring his NON-EU Citizen family into the UK.

So good luck,