Naturalisation - not physically present in UK 5 years before application

[christine761]

I recently submitted my application for Naturalisation online. Unfortunately I have just realised that my list of absences from the UK for the past 5 years includes a 3 night trip in 2013, which means I was not physically present in the UK 5 years before the date on which I submitted the application online. The date on which I received the email from the Home Office confirming receipt of my application, and the date of my appointment with the Nationality Document Return Service, would both be fine (as I was in the UK 5 years prior to these). However, I fear the date I submitted the application (which appears on the front of the printed application form) will be the date used.

Does the Home Office have any discretion around this point or will my application be automatically refused and I will lose the fee?

Thank you for any assistance.

[muraenidae]

From what others say on these forums, it's the day you submit online, and there is no discretion.

Just checking: The day you leave and the day you return count as being present in the UK. So was the day 5 years ago a day you were away 100%?

When did you submit? If it wasn't too long ago, I wonder whether it may be possible to call the home office about it and retract the submission. (Normally they say getting the fee back is not possible, but maybe you get lucky?)

[christine761]

Thank you, that is what I feared. Unfortunately I was 100% away on the day 5 years prior (if I had submitted the application 1 day earlier or 2 days later I would have been fine). I thought about calling the Home Office but the fee has already been deducted so I thought there would be little to gain (I submitted online on 1 June, and had my appointment with the Nationality Document Return Service yesterday).

The only thing that gives me some hope is the "Naturalisation by discretion" document I found, which includes the following (p. 14):

Legally in the UK at the start of the qualifying period.
To identify the start of the qualifying period you use the day after the application date minus the length of the qualifying period. For example in an application under section 6(1) made on 1 March 2016, the applicant must have been legally in the UK on 2 March 2011.

Where the applicant fails to meet the requirement to be in the UK at the start of the qualifying period by 2 months or less, either side of the application date, you must consider using discretion to allow them to re declare their application. Where discretion is being exercised you must request that the applicant re-declares their application, by using Doc Gen letter 4746

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0EXT.pdf

[muraenidae]

Interesting. That sounds like it might work, if your caseworker is in a good mood (ie exercises discretion).

[christine761]

Thank you, I guess I will have a very nervous 2 month wait (that is what I was advised the current wait time is at the NDRS appointment). I can't decide whether I should call the Home Office now, explain my mistake and beg them to exercise the discretion outlined in the guidance. Or alternatively wait 2 months for the decision (and if it goes against me perhaps I could appeal and say it was unreasonable not to exercise discretion, given that it was a very short trip)?

[CR001]

There is no 'appeal' process for refused naturalisation applications. You have to apply for a reconsideration at a cost of £372 with no time set to complete the reconsideration.

[christine761]

Thank you for clarifying. It sounds like if the case worker decides not to exercise the discretion, I will have to re-apply and re-pay the fee. I found the following two threads which give me a small glimmer of hope - in both cases, after submitting the application the applicants received letters from the Home Office because they were not physically present in the UK on the correct day, allowing them to re-sign and re-date their applications. I will keep everything crossed and continue to chastise myself for making such a foolish mistake in the meantime ...

british-citizenship/re-signed-and-re-da ... 02099.html

british-citizenship/naturalisation-appl ... l#p1298720

[silverchloride]

I might be wrong but I remember reading here somewhere that an applicant (who was not physically present in the UK 5 years on the day before applying) got a letter from UKVI asking them to resubmit the cover letter (signed and dated) so that their application could be considered, which would have been refused otherwise. Perhaps the moderators can confirm?

All the best.

[CR001]

I might be wrong but I remember reading here somewhere that an applicant (who was not physically present in the UK 5 years on the day before applying) got a letter from UKVI asking them to resubmit the cover letter (signed and dated) so that their application could be considered, which would have been refused otherwise. Perhaps the moderators can confirm?

All the best.

Some members have yes and others have not received and been refused.

[ss518]

Im having the same problem with the date of application in which i was away 5 years ago.....and now got my application refused .....

If i were to submit request for reconsideration.. could i backdate the application date? Or i can only change to the later date ?

I submitted my application online...in the letter frm UKBA, they consider my online submission date as the date of my application.....

I went for ndrs to submit my supporting docs as well as my passport application.....

Any helps and advise will be very much appreciated

[TheRock9]

Im having the same problem with the date of application in which i was away 5 years ago.....and now got my application refused .....

If i were to submit request for reconsideration.. could i backdate the application date? Or i can only change to the later date ?

I submitted my application online...in the letter frm UKBA, they consider my online submission date as the date of my application.....

I went for ndrs to submit my supporting docs as well as my passport application.....

Any helps and advise will be very much appreciated

Hi

Sorry to hear about this. How many days were you away for ? You can try to ask them to reconsider your application, but you have to pay a fee of around £300+ and there is not time limit about how long it will take them to reconsider.

Can i please ask a one question. Did you Passport fee got deducted after you applied the application and after that you got a refusal letter.

Thanks

[ss518]

I was away for 11 days from my application date

yes, I did get my passport fees deducted then about 1 month later i received this refusal...

So, I am thinking to request them to reconsider and exercise discretion....

[secret.simon]

Im having the same problem with the date of application in which i was away 5 years ago.....and now got my application refused .....

If i were to submit request for reconsideration.. could i backdate the application date? Or i can only change to the later date ?

I am not sure that you can change the date of application if you go in for reconsideration. Reconsideration will only take into account the evidence that was submitted for the original application.

You can of course resubmit a new application with a new date of application.

So, I am thinking to request them to reconsider and exercise discretion....

The Home Office have no discretion to disregard the physical presence requirement. All they can do is get you to redeclare the form on a new date, which should be within two months of the original date, which would meet the five year physical presence requirement.

[acquamarina]

I recently submitted my application for Naturalisation online. Unfortunately I have just realised that my list of absences from the UK for the past 5 years includes a 3 night trip in 2013, which means I was not physically present in the UK 5 years before the date on which I submitted the application online. The date on which I received the email from the Home Office confirming receipt of my application, and the date of my appointment with the Nationality Document Return Service, would both be fine (as I was in the UK 5 years prior to these). However, I fear the date I submitted the application (which appears on the front of the printed application form) will be the date used.

Does the Home Office have any discretion around this point or will my application be automatically refused and I will lose the fee?

Thank you for any assistance.

Hi christine761,

I have submitted my application 2 days ago and I just found out I'm in the same situation, that unfortunately means I wasn't physically in the UK on 22nd/23rd August 2013. I lived and worked here for 6 years, it just happened I was on holiday those days! And I found no mention of this in the application process. I litterally just found out.

Just like you, if I knew I would have waited 3 more days to submit it (as I came back from holiday on 25th August 2013). What are the chances I can appeal for reconsideration and exercise of discretion?
Did you get approved by any chance?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best, I just don't want to pay another £1,330+....

Thank you anyone for your help.

[CR001]

Hi christine761,

I have submitted my application 2 days ago and I just found out I'm in the same situation, that unfortunately means I wasn't physically in the UK on 22nd/23rd August 2013. I lived and worked here for 6 years, it just happened I was on holiday those days! And I found no mention of this in the application process. I litterally just found out.

Just like you, if I knew I would have waited 3 more days to submit it (as I came back from holiday on 25th August 2013). What are the chances I can appeal for reconsideration and exercise of discretion?
Did you get approved by any chance?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best, I just don't want to pay another £1,330+....

Thank you anyone for your help.

It is clearly stated in the AN guidance notes, page 7, point 2.2.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... feb-18.pdf

2.2 Fill in this table showing the periods you have be en away from the UK during the last 5 years (3 years if you are married to or in a civil partnership with a British citizen). Insert the number of days you were away from the UK in the last column ignoring the day you left and the day you arrived back in the UK. If there is not enough room for all your absences, then continue on page 22. Add up the total and write it in the space indicated.

You must also check that you were physically present in the UK 5 years (3 years if you are married to or in civil partnership with a British citizen) before the date that the application will be received by the Home Office or other receiving authority (see “Where to send your application form” in this guide). If you do not meet this requirement your application is unlikely to be successful, unless you were in the UK armed forces at that time.

[UK_Tier1]

I recently submitted my application for Naturalisation online. Unfortunately I have just realised that my list of absences from the UK for the past 5 years includes a 3 night trip in 2013, which means I was not physically present in the UK 5 years before the date on which I submitted the application online. The date on which I received the email from the Home Office confirming receipt of my application, and the date of my appointment with the Nationality Document Return Service, would both be fine (as I was in the UK 5 years prior to these). However, I fear the date I submitted the application (which appears on the front of the printed application form) will be the date used.

Does the Home Office have any discretion around this point or will my application be automatically refused and I will lose the fee?

Thank you for any assistance.

Hi christine761,

I have submitted my application 2 days ago and I just found out I'm in the same situation, that unfortunately means I wasn't physically in the UK on 22nd/23rd August 2013. I lived and worked here for 6 years, it just happened I was on holiday those days! And I found no mention of this in the application process. I litterally just found out.

Just like you, if I knew I would have waited 3 more days to submit it (as I came back from holiday on 25th August 2013). What are the chances I can appeal for reconsideration and exercise of discretion?
Did you get approved by any chance?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best, I just don't want to pay another £1,330+....

Thank you anyone for your help.

If you were on holiday on the 22nd/23rd August 2013 but you were validly in the UK under any of the Visas category that counts towards your residency, then I do not see what the issue is - Unless I have misunderstood your post.

You stated that you "lived and worked here for 6 years" in which case you must have had a visa category that entitled you to work and perhaps also qualified you to meet the permanent residency requirements.

The Residence requirement to be "physically present in the UK" for the 5 year period does not imply you have to be physically present in person for everyday of the 5 years, hence the absence cool-off limits. What it means is that you had a valid immigration permit that qualifies you for permanent residency 6 years, (in your case) to the date you submitted your application and you were already living in the UK on that date.

This is to prevent a situation where for an example, an applicant had a job permit issued to them and then only arrived in the UK 30days after but when they count their qualifying period, they use the date the permit was issued instead of when they arrived the UK. Hence you will see that the paper form under the "Residence Requirement" ask you to state the date you first arrived the UK.

This is from the Guide AN on Residency requirement:

"2.1 Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered. If this is less than 5 years before the date on which we receive the application, or less than 3 years before this date if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you might not meet the residence requirement (see page 6 of the Booklet AN) and your application may be unsuccessful."

[CR001]

I recently submitted my application for Naturalisation online. Unfortunately I have just realised that my list of absences from the UK for the past 5 years includes a 3 night trip in 2013, which means I was not physically present in the UK 5 years before the date on which I submitted the application online. The date on which I received the email from the Home Office confirming receipt of my application, and the date of my appointment with the Nationality Document Return Service, would both be fine (as I was in the UK 5 years prior to these). However, I fear the date I submitted the application (which appears on the front of the printed application form) will be the date used.

Does the Home Office have any discretion around this point or will my application be automatically refused and I will lose the fee?

Thank you for any assistance.

Hi christine761,

I have submitted my application 2 days ago and I just found out I'm in the same situation, that unfortunately means I wasn't physically in the UK on 22nd/23rd August 2013. I lived and worked here for 6 years, it just happened I was on holiday those days! And I found no mention of this in the application process. I litterally just found out.

Just like you, if I knew I would have waited 3 more days to submit it (as I came back from holiday on 25th August 2013). What are the chances I can appeal for reconsideration and exercise of discretion?
Did you get approved by any chance?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best, I just don't want to pay another £1,330+....

Thank you anyone for your help.

If you were on holiday on the 22nd/23rd August 2013 but you were validly in the UK under any of the Visas category that counts towards your residency, then I do not see what the issue is - Unless I have misunderstood your post.

You stated that you "lived and worked here for 6 years" in which case you must have had a visa category that entitled you to work and perhaps also qualified you to meet the permanent residency requirements.

The Residence requirement to be "physically present in the UK" for the 5 year period does not imply you have to be physically present in person for everyday of the 5 years, hence the absence cool-off limits. What it means is that you had a valid immigration permit that qualifies you for permanent residency 6 years, (in your case) to the date you submitted your application and you were already living in the UK on that date.

This is to prevent a situation where for an example, an applicant had a job permit issued to them and then only arrived in the UK 30days after but when they count their qualifying period, they use the date the permit was issued instead of when they arrived the UK. Hence you will see that the paper form under the "Residence Requirement" ask you to state the date you first arrived the UK.

This is from the Guide AN on Residency requirement:

"2.1 Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered. If this is less than 5 years before the date on which we receive the application, or less than 3 years before this date if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you might not meet the residence requirement (see page 6 of the Booklet AN) and your application may be unsuccessful."

You are misunderstanding the physcially present requirement. A person must be physcially present (ie not out of the UK for business, travel, holidays) on the exact same date 5/3 years previously as the date they apply for citizenship. This is mandatory. It has nothing to do with 'being away but have a valid permit to be in the UK'. Even though the OP has been in the UK for 6 years, for citizenship it is only the 5 years immediately preceding the date of application that counts and it is the start of that 5 year period that you must have been physically present in the UK.

Please do read the extract above that I posted from the guidance notes.

[UK_Tier1]

I recently submitted my application for Naturalisation online. Unfortunately I have just realised that my list of absences from the UK for the past 5 years includes a 3 night trip in 2013, which means I was not physically present in the UK 5 years before the date on which I submitted the application online. The date on which I received the email from the Home Office confirming receipt of my application, and the date of my appointment with the Nationality Document Return Service, would both be fine (as I was in the UK 5 years prior to these). However, I fear the date I submitted the application (which appears on the front of the printed application form) will be the date used.

Does the Home Office have any discretion around this point or will my application be automatically refused and I will lose the fee?

Thank you for any assistance.

Hi christine761,

I have submitted my application 2 days ago and I just found out I'm in the same situation, that unfortunately means I wasn't physically in the UK on 22nd/23rd August 2013. I lived and worked here for 6 years, it just happened I was on holiday those days! And I found no mention of this in the application process. I litterally just found out.

Just like you, if I knew I would have waited 3 more days to submit it (as I came back from holiday on 25th August 2013). What are the chances I can appeal for reconsideration and exercise of discretion?
Did you get approved by any chance?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best, I just don't want to pay another £1,330+....

Thank you anyone for your help.

If you were on holiday on the 22nd/23rd August 2013 but you were validly in the UK under any of the Visas category that counts towards your residency, then I do not see what the issue is - Unless I have misunderstood your post.

You stated that you "lived and worked here for 6 years" in which case you must have had a visa category that entitled you to work and perhaps also qualified you to meet the permanent residency requirements.

The Residence requirement to be "physically present in the UK" for the 5 year period does not imply you have to be physically present in person for everyday of the 5 years, hence the absence cool-off limits. What it means is that you had a valid immigration permit that qualifies you for permanent residency 6 years, (in your case) to the date you submitted your application and you were already living in the UK on that date.

This is to prevent a situation where for an example, an applicant had a job permit issued to them and then only arrived in the UK 30days after but when they count their qualifying period, they use the date the permit was issued instead of when they arrived the UK. Hence you will see that the paper form under the "Residence Requirement" ask you to state the date you first arrived the UK.

This is from the Guide AN on Residency requirement:

"2.1 Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered. If this is less than 5 years before the date on which we receive the application, or less than 3 years before this date if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you might not meet the residence requirement (see page 6 of the Booklet AN) and your application may be unsuccessful."

You are misunderstanding the physcially present requirement. A person must be physcially present (ie not out of the UK for business, travel, holidays) on the exact same date 5/3 years previously as the date they apply for citizenship. This is mandatory. It has nothing to do with 'being away but have a valid permit to be in the UK'. Even though the OP has been in the UK for 6 years, for citizenship it is only the 5 years immediately preceding the date of application that counts and it is the start of that 5 year period that you must have been physically present in the UK.

Please do read the extract above that I posted from the guidance notes.

I read that, but the booklet had this to say also:

"Most applications that fail do so because applicants have applied even though they cannot satisfy the residence requirement to be present in the UK at the beginning of the residential qualifying period."

I also checked this requirement before I submitted my application on-line myself and the interpretation I got from the learned solicitor(s) as per interpretation of "being present" and that was what I posted with the example.

(2)The requirements referred to in sub-paragraph (1)(a) of this paragraph are—

(a)that the applicant was in the United Kingdom at the beginning of the period of five years ending with the date of the application, and that the number of days on which he was absent from the United Kingdom in that period does not exceed 450; and

It may have been incorrect, but when I also read the BNA 1981 ACT, the advice give seems to make sense.

Also, I was never present in the UK on the day corresponding to the 5year qualifying period when I submitted my application on-line. In fact I was away for a week and half on work/business related - Perhaps some discretion was exercised in my case?

P:S I only posted advice I was given and I do not claim to be an expert on the subject as I also had same concern as the op I quoted.

[epi]

I might be wrong but I remember reading here somewhere that an applicant (who was not physically present in the UK 5 years on the day before applying) got a letter from UKVI asking them to resubmit the cover letter (signed and dated) so that their application could be considered, which would have been refused otherwise. Perhaps the moderators can confirm?

All the best.

It is here, p14 at the bottom:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2.0EXT.pdf

[christine761]

By way of update - thankfully the Home Office sent me the final page of my online application form to re-sign, and return to them on a date when I was physically present in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

[Noneeapr2017]

By way of update - thankfully the Home Office sent me the final page of my online application form to re-sign, and return to them on a date when I was physically present in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Hi there
Did u have to notify them when u Spot the mistake or u just waited for there response. As I have the same problem I was away for couple of days back in 2013 Thanks

[christine761]

By way of update - thankfully the Home Office sent me the final page of my online application form to re-sign, and return to them on a date when I was physically present in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Hi there
Did u have to notify them when u Spot the mistake or u just waited for there response. As I have the same problem I was away for couple of days back in 2013 Thanks

Hi, no I didn't notify them. I just spent a nervous few months waiting, and they contacted me. Good luck!

[Meesha]

Hi Forum members,
I have read ur valuable comments about physical presence in UK for citizenship. So if one in applying on 3 years basis they require to be present in uk exactly 3 years prior to date of application. Lets say if one applies on 7th March 2019 on the basis of British spouse, one has to be at UK on 7th March 2016. I believe it has nothing to do with 5 years ago presence or absence in this regard?

[christine761]

Hi Forum members,
I have read ur valuable comments about physical presence in UK for citizenship. So if one in applying on 3 years basis they require to be present in uk exactly 3 years prior to date of application. Lets say if one applies on 7th March 2019 on the basis of British spouse, one has to be at UK on 7th March 2016. I believe it has nothing to do with 5 years ago presence or absence in this regard?

Yes, your understanding is correct.

[Noneeapr2017]

By way of update - thankfully the Home Office sent me the final page of my online application form to re-sign, and return to them on a date when I was physically present in the UK exactly 5 years earlier.

Hi there
Did u have to notify them when u Spot the mistake or u just waited for there response. As I have the same problem I was away for couple of days back in 2013 Thanks

Hi, no I didn't notify them. I just spent a nervous few months waiting, and they contacted me. Good luck!

Thanks for the reply . So I just have to wait for there decision