Document supplied in previous application not considered by case worker

[sm12]

Sorry to hear this.
Was this your first or second application for a second extension?
If it was the first, then you can apply again 14 days.

[dsinghsunny]

this is first, but I want to go for JR instead of new Application.

[sm12]

this is first, but I want to go for JR instead of new Application.

I think you can do both- new application as well as JR.
What was the reason for not going for ILR? Was it absences?

[dsinghsunny]

Yes, it was absences in the second year.

I only want to go for JR and not for new application.

Can anyone suggest, if the procedure I mentioned above for JR is correct or not?

Thanks

[marcnath]

hi guys,

So AR has refused as well.

I want to go for JR.

Just need you people advice that how will I proceed now?

Hire a solicitor, he will send a PAP first and then it will go in FTT if PAP rejected and then UT.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks

Sorry to hear that it did not go through. I thought you may have had a chance.

Was there any explanation provided as to why they did not accept your arguments /

I am not totally sure of the JR process, but the first step of course is to get a solicitor, who can advice you on the rest.

Why would you not do a fresh application ? JR and immigration process are two separate paths, so nothing stops you from doing both.

[dsinghsunny]

What advantage will I get by 2nd application. When I know it is there mistake and I am on immigration bail already.

[marcnath]

What advantage will I get by 2nd application. When I know it is there mistake and I am on immigration bail already.

I am confused - why are you on immigration bail ?

A second application is a totally fresh application where you send in all new documents - this time including the missing documents.

Since you had already been given points for all the rest, your chances are good on a fresh application.

[dsinghsunny]

To be honest Marcnath I don't know. I don't know how it works when your application rejected.

This is how it exactly read

"If you wish to seek a legal advice you should do so now. You will not be removed for the first 7 days of this letter. Following 7 days and upto 3 months after this letter you may be removed without further notice.

I hereby grant you immigration bail subject to the following condition:
Not allowed to work

Now I am not sure if this immigration bail is for 7 days or for 3 months.

And I think I have to apply for new application(may be FLR(FP)) not to correct the mistake but to stay in the country to fight for JR otherwise I think after 2 weeks or so I will start getting the removal calls.

[marcnath]

To be honest Marcnath I don't know. I don't know how it works when your application rejected.

This is how it exactly read

"If you wish to seek a legal advice you should do so now. You will not be removed for the first 7 days of this letter. Following 7 days and upto 3 months after this letter you may be removed without further notice.

I hereby grant you immigration bail subject to the following condition:
Not allowed to work

Now I am not sure if this immigration bail is for 7 days or for 3 months.

And I think I have to apply for new application(may be FLR(FP)) not to correct the mistake but to stay in the country to fight for JR otherwise I think after 2 weeks or so I will start getting the removal calls.

I am not sure what the argument for your JR would be. I am not a lawyer, so can't say for sure but it appears the decision was right under the rules.

Also, once you apply for a new extension within 14 days, I believe you should be ok.

Do you have any basis for FLR (FP) ?

[sm12]

To be honest Marcnath I don't know. I don't know how it works when your application rejected.

This is how it exactly read

"If you wish to seek a legal advice you should do so now. You will not be removed for the first 7 days of this letter. Following 7 days and upto 3 months after this letter you may be removed without further notice.

I hereby grant you immigration bail subject to the following condition:
Not allowed to work

Now I am not sure if this immigration bail is for 7 days or for 3 months.

And I think I have to apply for new application(may be FLR(FP)) not to correct the mistake but to stay in the country to fight for JR otherwise I think after 2 weeks or so I will start getting the removal calls.

This is in the refusal letter? Or they've sent you another letter?

Also, have you received your originals (other than passport) back? If so, you really ought to make a fresh entrepreneur application with all documents including bank statements/letter and corporation tax documents.

[moongesture]

If Business Activity is the only reason then rather going to JR it's better to apply with the new application.

If you refer my previous response, specified document for Business Activity under Appendix A covers both Table 5 & 6 and required for Extension/Further Extension and ILR. My suggestion is that you are near to your ILR so it's better to apply for an extension and cover the absence period.

[dsinghsunny]

@sm12 this is in the AR refusal.

@marcnath & moongesture, ok so reason I want to go for JR, in AR they replied

"you said that these document have provided in previous application to prove engagement with the business as a director, however the caseworker refused you on the basis of self employed that you have not provided hmrc document with in 3 month of this application".

So, basically they think (which is not correct) that both requirement need to be satisfied and both of the documents provided should not be more than 3 months old.

Also, I said (in AR) that in form it is mentioned that only one document is required, they quote the question and said that it is mentioned in the form that both document are required. Now this is not correct as well because hmrc document is for self employed people and company house report is for director.

Now when I have in writing that they have made the mistake then why should I go for new application.

I hope now you guys are in better position to share your views.

thanks

[marcnath]

@sm12 this is in the AR refusal.

@marcnath & moongesture, ok so reason I want to go for JR, in AR they replied

"you said that these document have provided in previous application to prove engagement with the business as a director, however the caseworker refused you on the basis of self employed that you have not provided hmrc document with in 3 month of this application".

So, basically they think (which is not correct) that both requirement need to be satisfied and both of the documents provided should not be more than 3 months old.

Also, I said (in AR) that in form it is mentioned that only one document is required, they quote the question and said that it is mentioned in the form that both document are required. Now this is not correct as well because hmrc document is for self employed people and company house report is for director.

Now when I have in writing that they have made the mistake then why should I go for new application.

I hope now you guys are in better position to share your views.

thanks

I don't understand the text that you copied from the refusal letter. It appears they are are assessing you as self-employed ? Does not make sense.

Even the language of the text you copied seems odd - did you copy it word for word ?

Unless someone has access to all the documents - your application, the refusal, etc. it is difficult to make a definite assessment.

It may be worth talking to a lawyer and at least doing the first step - the PAP. The specific refusal based on lack of self employed HMRC letter is possibly an error. It appears that was always the reason, not the HMRC document for the proof of being a director. And obviously you did not argue that in the AR. Was there some reason the CW would have considered you to be self employed ?

Having said that, if I were in your place, I would do both - file a fresh application and evaluate legal action with a lawyer. It does mean paying the fees again, but if the legal action is successful, there may be a chance of getting that refunded.

[sm12]

Did they actually mention self employment in the letter?
Can you copy the text?

[sm12]

Do you mean this question:
M2. Please tick to confirm you have provided the appropriate evidence to demonstrate your
registration:
HM Revenue & Customs documentation
Companies House documentation

[sm12]

I mean are you assuming that they think you are self employed because they said both documents were required, or the letter actually says that you did not prove your self employment?

[moongesture]

Can you please quote the Immigration rule they specified in your refusal letter.

If you are engaged in the business activity and if you have provided Current appointment report from companies house within 3 months before the date of your application then it won't be an issue. Regardless of you being a self-employed along with the director of the company you have to provide a valid registration within 3 months in either way. 48(b) have all the basis if that's the case.

[dsinghsunny]

In AR refusal he specifically mentioned the self employment point as refusal and said HMRC document WITH IN 3 MONTHS from application date not submitted.

Hope it helps.

[sm12]

In AR refusal he specifically mentioned the self employment point as refusal and said HMRC document WITH IN 3 MONTHS from application date not submitted.

Hope it helps.

Can you type out the exact text and the Immigration Rules that were quoted in the AR refusal? It would make it easier to understand the refusal reasons. It would be much easier to see whether they applied the rules incorrectly if the relevant text of the refusal was typed out here.

Also, you should strongly consider going for a fresh application anyway, because even if they incorrectly applied the rules, you can easily meet the requirements and get your extension. You can take the JR route in addition to this.

[sm12]

By the way, if previously you were refused for not providing a corporation tax document and a business bank letter/statement, and now the AR was refused for a different reason, as in for not proving self employment, I think they ought to give you a second AR option?
From what I recall, if the reason for refusal is changed in the AR, HO is supposed to give a second AR option?

You’ll usually receive the result of the administrative review within 28 days. You can’t request a second review (unless the result included new reasons why you were refused).

https://www.gov.uk/ask-for-a-visa-admin ... -in-the-uk

Unless the original refusal was also for self employment related HMRC documents and not corporation tax?

[Rockey]

HI Dsinghsunny,

Can you tell me pls actually what business bank statement you missed , you meant to say you have sent business bankstatement or bank letter at all ?

[waseem84]

@sm12 this is in the AR refusal.

@marcnath & moongesture, ok so reason I want to go for JR, in AR they replied

"you said that these document have provided in previous application to prove engagement with the business as a director, however the caseworker refused you on the basis of self employed that you have not provided hmrc document with in 3 month of this application".

So, basically they think (which is not correct) that both requirement need to be satisfied and both of the documents provided should not be more than 3 months old.

Also, I said (in AR) that in form it is mentioned that only one document is required, they quote the question and said that it is mentioned in the form that both document are required. Now this is not correct as well because hmrc document is for self employed people and company house report is for director.

Now when I have in writing that they have made the mistake then why should I go for new application.

I hope now you guys are in better position to share your views.

thanks

while reading first paragraph what i understand is , they meant "when you are saying you already provided them these document in your previous application" basically you are telling them to include those doc i.e. CAR report or self appointment HMRC letter for previous application .even though they consider it but those doc are not within 3 months of THIS application . so its obvious refusal . for every new application your documents i.e. CAR should be within 3 months of it. hope it make sense .

good luck

[dsinghsunny]

Ok marcnath going with your advice and applying for both Jr and new application.

Do you think fps and salary slips submitted with last application are enough. I mentioned the job end date as the date of the payroll I ran just before submitted the last application i.e 31 Jan.

Personally I think the only new documents required are
CH report (within 3 months)
3 months bank statement
Bank letter
HMRC document

And the rest of the document will be same as submitted last time.

[sm12]

Ok marcnath going with your advice and applying for both Jr and new application.

Do you think fps and salary slips submitted with last application are enough. I mentioned the job end date as the date of the payroll I ran just before submitted the last application i.e 31 Jan.

Personally I think the only new documents required are
CH report (within 3 months)
3 months bank statement
Bank letter
HMRC document

And the rest of the document will be same as submitted last time.

Yes, the documents for payroll submitted previously should be enough (assuming that no points about payroll were raised in your refusal).
The new documents that you've listed are also fine. I think by HMRC document you're referring to corporation tax documents, as self employment documents do not apply in your case, as you said?
Also, I'm assuming the bank letter is for the business and the 3 months bank statement is for your maintenance.
Are you going to address the point that they raised about self employment in your new application?

[marcnath]

Ok marcnath going with your advice and applying for both Jr and new application.

Do you think fps and salary slips submitted with last application are enough. I mentioned the job end date as the date of the payroll I ran just before submitted the last application i.e 31 Jan.

Personally I think the only new documents required are
CH report (within 3 months)
3 months bank statement
Bank letter
HMRC document

And the rest of the document will be same as submitted last time.

That seems fine.

Remember the maintenance has to be updated - it has to be 90 days and within 30 days of this application.