US Spouse moving to UK with British Husband

[manny1980]

Hi:
My wife, who is a US citizen, and I a British Citizen living in the US (permanent resident) are planning to move to UK in a few months from now because of family reasons as my father recently died.

Since I am living in the US and dont have a job in the UK, how easy will it be to explain the situation especially when it comes to financial support?

My mother is happy to provide us funds and accommodation where she lives and she owns and we have decent money which can easily last for a year or more. I am planning to start looking for a job in the UK after moving back here with my wife.

Would appreciate if someone can please provide me of any complications or any kind of helpful suggestions in regards to my wife's application?

[JAJ]

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk

Have you thought about whether you want to get your U.S. citizenship or not, before you leave?

[Casa]

Unforunately 3rd party financial support is no longer accepted, although accomodation is.

[manny1980]

Unforunately 3rd party financial support is no longer accepted, although accomodation is.

Can you provide a reference as I was unable to find this? Even in the application form, there is no indication that family financial support is not accepted. Beside, my wife and I have reasonable savings in our bank accounts in US and UK.

[Casa]

Definately not an option. Hopefully Vinny (King of Links) or one of the
other members will give you the link to this.

[manny1980]

Definately not an option. Hopefully Vinny (King of Links) or one of the
other members will give you the link to this.

I am interested to see a official (reliable) link to this for confirmation.

I can agree with above point if one has very limited funds but my wife and I have very reasonable funds in our UK and US banks and my mother has more than enough to have us live there for years without any problems. Beside, I shall be looking for employment once I am here.

To support my wife's application I will provide details of our savings in UK and US as well as my mother's savings. I can assume my degree and qualifications should reflect I hopefully wont have too much problem finding a job.

[Casa]

If as you say, you have more than sufficient funds then why include your mother's savings as additional financial support?
Your mother can provide accomodation without a problem, although you
will need to submit proof of ownership (property deeds or mortgage agreement), or letter from landlord if rented agreeing to you living in the
property. Also details of size, how many rooms and how many occupants at present to prove no overcrowding.

[manny1980]

If as you say, you have more than sufficient funds then why include your mother's savings as additional financial support?
Your mother can provide accomodation without a problem, although you
will need to submit proof of ownership (property deeds or mortgage agreement), or letter from landlord if rented agreeing to you living in the
property. Also details of size, how many rooms and how many occupants at present to prove no overcrowding.

I rather show more than enough required to meet the requirements since I, most likely, may not have a job in UK when we apply for the visa while we are in the US ( I have good qualifications though).

I do however appreciate your pointing out the third party finances (thanks) but after doing more search online, the only information I was able to find was from a repeated new article written back in mid-2007 and with no information on the UK immigration website or official UK Govt websites, hence I wonder if this proposed clause was officially accepted.

The flat is owned by my mother and late father. How many occupants maybe considered overcrowding?

[Casa]

You should have your own room. 3rd party financial support rule is applied...and eventually someone's going to appear and give the relevant link. Vinny...where are you??

[jei2]

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/1082.html

See esp. paras 24 and 48 but the overall agreement is that 3rd party is tantamount to requiring recourse to public funds.

It's therefore no longer acceptable.

[manny1980]

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/1082.html

See esp. paras 24 and 48 but the overall agreement is that 3rd party is tantamount to requiring recourse to public funds.

It's therefore no longer acceptable.

First of all, thank you very much for providing this link.

I read the paras 24 and 48 and can understand, to some degrees, why 3rd party rule may not apply. However, from the wordings of the paragraph, it was a little obscure whether the rules applies because of the following:

1) In cases where enough funds are available in the sponsor (British spouse) and applicant's bank account in UK and (in our case also in the US). Kindly note there can be family circumstances where both British husband/wife is living abroad with their spouse and are intending to come back home. I fortunately have a permanent home in the UK with my parents who own the place and are happy to have us there.

Question: Just how much funds in the sponsor's bank are sufficient to show that applicant is not going to be dependent on public funds?


2) The settlement form (VAF4a) provides section asking for income from any other sources including family. If the 3rd party financial clause was unworkable this section is, in principle, un-valid but yet exists?

3) The web-link provided I am sure is reliable to some degrees but still is not official Govt. website such as UK Border Agency (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/) , where I was unable to find any where which suggests 3rd party funds cannot be accepted for obtaining spouse visa.

4) I have good qualifications with Master of Engineering, which I assume can weigh positively on our behalf.

4) It is possible that depending on each individual case, 3rd party rule is likely to be more effective in countries with 'dodgy' background than likes of the US. My assumption is based on fact that UK Border Agency initially asks the nationality and residence of the applicant prior to providing access to relevant application forms; which can only imply that different rules apply to depending on Nationality and location of the applicant.

Kindly do correct me if I wrote something inaccurate.

[Casa]

Sorry, no exemption from the 3rd party financial support because you're applying in the US. The regulation isn't discriminatory.

[manny1980]

Sorry, no exemption from the 3rd party financial support because you're applying in the US. The regulation isn't discriminatory.

What about what I stated above in points 2 and 3?

In my opinion, there is too much obscureness on how rules are implemented.

But apart from this, can you please inform just how much money should be there in a bank to show a spouse will not be financially dependent?

[Casa]

You need to show that you will have a minimum of £94.95 left each week after utility bills, council tax, and rent or mortgage have been paid. You don't have to include food and personal spending.
If you are living with family you will need to show at least a nominal contribution towards utility bills, or this will be considered '3rd party financial support' as household costs will increase with you both living there.
As regards to savings, the ECO will consider how long these savings will last should you be unable to find employment immediately...especially with the unemployment levels in the UK at the moment.

[manny1980]

You need to show that you will have a minimum of £94.95 left each week after utility bills, council tax, and rent or mortgage have been paid. You don't have to include food and personal spending.
If you are living with family you will need to show at least a nominal contribution towards utility bills, or this will be considered '3rd party financial support' as household costs will increase with you both living there.
As regards to savings, the ECO will consider how long these savings will last should you be unable to find employment immediately...especially with the unemployment levels in the UK at the moment.

Thanks for your reply.

We have well over £15K in savings, which I assume should be sufficient. I assume finding a job concern can probably be satisfied with my CV with Masters and BEng degrees with a list of publications which should hopefully satisfy the reviewer I shouldn't find too much problem finding employment in this recession as Engineering market is relatively less affected than retail and automobile.

My mother is financially very secure (>£100K), and we can get financial assistance from them, for which we can provide bank statements to prove that.

As for utility bill, it comes on my mother's name. So how can I demonstrate that I will be making contributing to them?

Also, in the application form, there is an option of selecting Do you want to work in the UK once approved VISA. What happens if she selects she will waive her rights for working would that make her case stronger or weaker in order to gain UK spouse visa?

[Casa]

Waiving rights to work will make her case weaker.
You just need to show your intention of contributing to the bills...you can't actually contribute until you get here.
Your mother may have a significant amount of savings, but we're back to square one on this...we obviously can't convince you that her savings can't be considered in your application.
£15,000 in savings should be sufficient to show you can support yourselves financially until you find employment.
How long have you been married and living together outside of the UK?
If this is 4 years or more then your wife can apply for ILR after arrival in the UK once she has passed the Life in the UK (KOL) test, without waiting
for the full 2 years.

[manny1980]

Waiving rights to work will make her case weaker.
You just need to show your intention of contributing to the bills...you can't actually contribute until you get here.
Your mother may have a significant amount of savings, but we're back to square one on this...we obviously can't convince you that her savings can't be considered in your application.
£15,000 in savings should be sufficient to show you can support yourselves financially until you find employment.
How long have you been married and living together outside of the UK?
If this is 4 years or more then your wife can apply for ILR after arrival in the UK once she has passed the Life in the UK (KOL) test, without waiting
for the full 2 years.

If you hadn't convinced me at all then I wont be asking questions, as your point has gained my attention

We have been married for just over 5 years now and lived outside UK.

BTW, I just checked that we have around £8K in my UK bank but around $20K in US bank, wonder if this will be a problem or are we required to transfer $ to £ (ie US bank to UK bank)?

In respect to utility bills, she can include my name for the payment of Council Tax to make the payments but what else can be used as a utility bill?

[Casa]

No need to transfer from US to UK bank.
Don't worry about actually adding name to bills...this is just to show the
intent to contribute. What happens once you arrive in the UK is entirely up to you.
When you submit your application make sure the ECO is aware that you've been married for more than 4 years and living outside of the UK during that time. Your wife should be issued with a visa showing SETTLEMENT SPOUSE/CP KOL REQ, which as I said earlier will mean that once your wife has passed the KOL test she will be able to apply for ILR without waiting for the initial 2 year period to end.

[manny1980]

No need to transfer from US to UK bank.
Don't worry about actually adding name to bills...this is just to show the
intent to contribute. What happens once you arrive in the UK is entirely up to you.
When you submit your application make sure the ECO is aware that you've been married for more than 4 years and living outside of the UK during that time. Your wife should be issued with a visa showing SETTLEMENT SPOUSE/CP KOL REQ, which as I said earlier will mean that once your wife has passed the KOL test she will be able to apply for ILR without waiting for the initial 2 year period to end.

Wow, I am glad and relieved funds that we have are sufficient. Is it possible my mother can make a gift for £3-4K in my bank, will that make her case stronger?

Also, how do I show my intent to contribute to utility bill without actually on (like you stated) or paying the utility bill?

Please do let me know any additional information you believe may be helpful in my application.

[Casa]

You don't need to show it...you just need to say you intend to contribute.
The key word is intention
Nothing to be gained by your mother depositing funds...in fact it can go against you, as you can't prove she wouldn't withdraw the money once
the visas had been granted. Suspicious bunch the ECO's
As an example, when we applied for my husband's visa we were told to return the next day with a receipt for the sale of our car proving that
the funds deposited into our account had been from this and not a loan.

[manny1980]

You don't need to show it...you just need to say you intend to contribute.
The key word is intention
Nothing to be gained by your mother depositing funds...in fact it can go against you, as you can't prove she wouldn't withdraw the money once
the visas had been granted. Suspicious bunch the ECO's
As an example, when we applied for my husband's visa we were told to return the next day with a receipt for the sale of our car proving that
the funds deposited into our account had been from this and not a loan.

Intentions...I see For me, once I get a job, my wife and I intend to leave and get our own place but it all depends on when I actually get a job. But is there any paper work required to show my intentions of contributing in the utility bills, else how will I be able to convince them?

BTW I do have a joint account with my mother. Will any money in that account weigh anything in brining by wife from US to the UK since my name is in the account with my mother's?

[Casa]

Don't get too stressed about showing an intention to contribute to the
bills. Your mother will have to write a letter confirming that she is happy for you both to live with her. In her letter which she can address to you both she also can also say that a contribution towards the household bills of £60 a week (example not set in stone) will be fine.
You can include the joint account you have with your mother, showing original statements, although the ECO may disregard it.
Make sure you provide a certified copy of the your mother's house deeds
and details of size and number of rooms, and number of people living in the house.

[manny1980]

Don't get too stressed about showing an intention to contribute to the
bills. Your mother will have to write a letter confirming that she is happy for you both to live with her. In her letter which she can address to you both she also can also say that a contribution towards the household bills of £60 a week (example not set in stone) will be fine.
You can include the joint account you have with your mother, showing original statements, although the ECO may disregard it.
Make sure you provide a certified copy of the your mother's house deeds
and details of size and number of rooms, and number of people living in the house.

Ok that sounds pretty good. I assume the letter of confirmation from my mother requires to be certified?

She actually lives in a flat with 2 bedrooms and 1 living room (3 rooms in total); of course there is a Spam, bathroom, and a mail entrance hall (which is size of a room). My sister with her 3 year old son lives there. So I think, in total, it will be 4.5 people for 3 rooms in our case. If I understand correctly, 3 room house is acceptable for 5 adults?