PWS refused on the basis of electr statement and letter uni

[lala2312]

Hi Guys,

I need your input on my situation.

I was refused my PWS visa on the basis that I had sent an electronic copy of my lloyds statement just for the last 2 weeks of my statement as I did not have the original and my bank refused to stamp or sign it. Also, my award letter from my university, according to the home office is not sufficient because it does not confirm my degree or state that my certificate would be issued.

However, I had sent a cover letter with my statement explaining why it was not stamped or signed but this was disregarded obviously. With my award letter, at the time of my application I believed it met the requirements as it stated the name of my university, dates of study, my name, and every other relevant information as specified by the HO. It mentioned that this is a confirmation of the award you are due to recieve after the senate approves of this on the 21st of dec 2010. As I have met the condition of HO by retaining #800 and above in my account from the 29th of Sept to 31st of Dec and also had a confirmation of my degree (as seen in my certificate) before the date I applied, My question:

-as my appeal date is coming up, can I present the originals of my documents, would this be accepted as evidence that I qualify for the points I claimed

-Is it neccessary to get a lawyer

-What sort of questions would I be asked by the judge and

-Would I be penalised for telling the truth about my situation, that I believed the letter given to me by my Uni was sufficient

-if I can prove that I have been awarded the degree before my application and had sufficient money in my account at the time will that be accepted

-what could be a good excuse for not including them in my intial application

-Also, does the judge look at evidence that does not cover the time frame when the application was made e.g would he/she look into bank statement after the 31st of dec which is the date i made my application

Many thanks for your response

Lala

[arsenal49]

Think of this appeal as your chance to convince judge that the HO made an error.

The only way you can satisfy him is by giving him SAME evidence that you gave to HO. If you bring in new evidence , the judge may not allow to take it into consideration since he can not prove beyond all doubts that the HO was the guilty party because the documents you are producing now is different than what you produced at the time of application.

Having said that, it is totally upto the discretion of the judge... so make sure you have "new" docs ready just in case , but prepare your case such that you are sending the same/similar information to support your appeal. For example, about bank statement, make sure that you send the originals this time around covering the same dates , of which you provided online statements. I am assuming you have nothing to hide and you satisfy all the requirements of psw in first place. Get a new letter from uni, ask them to mention EVERYTHING that is requred by HO, according to guidance notes. Did you not produce original certificate? If not, do it now.

All the best

[arsenal49]

Hi Guys,

I need your input on my situation.

I was refused my PWS visa on the basis that I had sent an electronic copy of my lloyds statement just for the last 2 weeks of my statement as I did not have the original and my bank refused to stamp or sign it. Also, my award letter from my university, according to the home office is not sufficient because it does not confirm my degree or state that my certificate would be issued.

However, I had sent a cover letter with my statement explaining why it was not stamped or signed but this was disregarded obviously. With my award letter, at the time of my application I believed it met the requirements as it stated the name of my university, dates of study, my name, and every other relevant information as specified by the HO. It mentioned that this is a confirmation of the award you are due to recieve after the senate approves of this on the 21st of dec 2010. As I have met the condition of HO by retaining #800 and above in my account from the 29th of Sept to 31st of Dec and also had a confirmation of my degree (as seen in my certificate) before the date I applied, My question:

-as my appeal date is coming up, can I present the originals of my documents, would this be accepted as evidence that I qualify for the points I claimed

-Is it neccessary to get a lawyer

-What sort of questions would I be asked by the judge and

-Would I be penalised for telling the truth about my situation, that I believed the letter given to me by my Uni was sufficient

-if I can prove that I have been awarded the degree before my application and had sufficient money in my account at the time will that be accepted

-what could be a good excuse for not including them in my intial application

-Also, does the judge look at evidence that does not cover the time frame when the application was made e.g would he/she look into bank statement after the 31st of dec which is the date i made my application

Many thanks for your response

Lala

All you basically need to do is get original of bank statement AND new letter showing what was suggested by HO. If you do that, chances are you will be sucessfull.

When you were getting letter from uni, did you tell them that you need it for psw? If so, ask them to write you a supporting letter. This will be very useful for judge as it will show that it wasnt your fault that your visa letter was deemed to have insufficient info.

[lala2312]

Many thanks for the quick response...

I have my certificate now, also a letter from my university confirming my award and also the original bank statement which I didnt have initially.

For my certificate, it has the date 21st dec 2009 and I made my application on the 31st. So does that mean that the judge would accept it as evidence that I qualify for the points claimed? Also, I have sent in my appeal and my date for hearing is 27th of April, however I made my appeal on the grounds that the discretion of the immigrations right should have been exercised differently in my case as I met the requirements at the time of my application eventhough I didnt send in the right documentation and my caseworker should have contacted me. Also, I have stated that I had plans to send in the documents once i got them but when I recieved the acknowledgement letter from HO stating that no further documents should be sent unless a caseworker contacts you.

Do you think this is a strong point for my appeal? I havent sent in my witness statement yet so I was hoping to including any important point I must have left out?

Looking further to your response...

Thank you

[arsenal49]

Ok... you have done your homework which is good to know...

One thing, what exactly did you produce to claim that you have completed a degree? You need to provide the SAME letter and then back it up by saying as it was mentioned in the letter, i got my certificate later on xxx date.

good luck


EDIT: Well i am pretty sure they send the same note saying dont send anymore documents in their acknowledgment letter. But if your application DEPENDS on new documents being sent, then you should do it via "change of circumstances form" which can be found on their website. After all thats why that form is there...

I peronally think Judge will not pay much attention to that note on ack. Afterall, it is understood, that it is a duty of applicant to provide all the necessary documents so that caseworker can take a decision knowing all the facts.

[lala2312]

Thanks a lot for the suggestion ...

The letter I sent basically stated that I have been recommended for Master of Arts in International relations by the Board of Examiners but would be confirmed by the university's Senate on 21st Dec 2009. It also stated that after this date you would be entitled to recieve a certificate to confirm this award, in the meantime this letter provides confirmation of the Board Examiners' recommendation and the award you are due to recieve.

From the above, even though it did not state directly that its a confirmation of my degree I believe it stated that the certificate will be issued.

What do you think?

[arsenal49]

I am very interested to know exactly what HO stated on the letter regarding refusal. Maybe i will be able to give you better advice/suggestion after that.

[TheSpread]

The letter I sent basically stated that I have been recommended for Master of Arts in International relations by the Board of Examiners but would be confirmed by the university's Senate on 21st Dec 2009.

That's were the error was. When did you send your application? When applying for the PSW you have to either send the degree cert of if not possible a letter confirming that you have been awarded the degree from said institution. The fact that your letter stated that you had only been recommended but not yet confirmed for the degree is where they caught you out....for all they know the board may have refused giving you the degree. If you had got a letter after the decision was made on the 21st of Dec then it would show you have been awarded the degree. Small technicalities like this are what UKBA are catching people out on...it's a bit of a nightmare.

[lala2312]

For my Qulification:

-You have supplied a letter from you uni. However, this letter only states that you have been recommended for the award of Master of Arts in International Relations, but that the award was not due to be confirmed until Dec 2009.
-Paragraph 59(ii) of our published guidance states that an origingal letter from the awarding institution must confirm that a certificate will be issued. As the letter you have provided does not confirm that the award will be issued zero points have been award.

Maintenance Fund:

You have provided statement covering the period 18 Sept to 31 Dec 2009. However, whilst the documents provided appear to show sufficient funds to meet the published criteria from 29 sept 2009, the statements for the period 18 Dec 2009 onwards are in the form of electronic printouts. As thse documents do not contain the official stamp of your bank we are unable to accept these documents when assessing the maintenance fund.

Thanks

[arsenal49]

ok... good news is you have covered your maintenance issue so u are fine there.

Your problem is qualification. Clearly, you have qualification now and you satisfy that requirement as well BUT what you must do is convince the judge that it was just an omission on university's part although you requested a letter because you told uni that u were making psw application. This letter would convince judge of that and he will take into account your actual certificate and grant you points there.

Remember, you will be producing a new document i.e. certificate and you need to give judge the reasons why he should take this into account and not just refuse it as it was not the part of your original application.

Get a letter from uni through welfare officers or overseas association volunteer etc. stating that the original letter(that you included in your application) was issued after you requested it for psw application.

This would suggest to the judge that uni is someone to blame really as they did not give you satisfactory document at the time of application.

i hope i am making myself understood properly

[lala2312]

Yes, I understand, I have tried to extract a letter from my university taking the blame but have been unsuccessful as there was no recorded evidence that the personnel from my university told me the letter was sufficient and I cant prove it.

maybe I should try again and see what happens...

Cheers mate! Thanks alot for the encouragement.

May I ask? Have you been in any of this situations before?

[lala2312]

Also, has anyone been cut up in a qualification refusal? What was the outcome of the appeal? Was the appeal accepted and on what grounds?

Thanks...

[arsenal49]

no i dontt have personal experience of that but what HO is now trying to do, with Points based system, is a clear cut yes or no situation. e.g has the applicant gained points for maintenance. YES or NO?

I n the past, there were lots of grey areas and HO felt that people were getting their visa far more easily even when they had refused it through appeal system. They made changes to appeal system as well since introducing points based system.

I am pretty sure that your appeal will be successfull but there is a tiny possibility that judge refuse to look at he new evidence e.g. degree certificate because thats "new" document. And thas where you need to prepare your case.

If everything else fails, try to get a nice supporting letter from your academic supervisor raising points that would convince judge of your 1) character and 2) points like university's shortcoming in producing good-enough document.

Basically, get a letter from third party saying its not your fault that the letter from uni wasnt good enough, will go very well with the judge.

keep us updated

[potterbond007]

Also, has anyone been cut up in a qualification refusal? What was the outcome of the appeal? Was the appeal accepted and on what grounds?

Thanks...

The senate ratification has been an issue for visa refusal in me and 2 of my friend's cases. During the appeal all of us proved that we had the qualification, since by that time the senate had ratified and provided us with the degree and we showed the degree certificate at the hearing. I had a maintenance fund issue too so my visa ultimately refused based on that.

[lala2312]

Thanks a lot for your support... Would keep you posted. Also, if you find anything that relates to my situation especially the qualification aspect let me know please.

[lala2312]

@ potterbond009, was your certificate accepted by the judge when you presented it at the appeal. Was that the reason you were refused or was it because of your maintenace fund?

Thank you

[potterbond007]

@ potterbond009, was your certificate accepted by the judge when you presented it at the appeal. Was that the reason you were refused or was it because of your maintenace fund?

Thank you

The certificate was accepted by the judge.. Just explain that a decision had not been taken at the moment and now that it is, here is the proof and show the degree certificate/ univ letter saying that the degree has been granted.. i lost my appeal on funds complications..

Edit: Did ur university ask u to resubmit some coursework which is why it is taking so much time?

[lala2312]

@ potterbond009, am so sorry to hear that.

So the judge did not refer to the certificate as a "new" evidence? I am asking because i read from a thread that the judge might see it as a new evidence and might not accept it. Anyway, I intend to present my certificate as a collaborative evidence not as "new", because eventhough I did not present it at the time of my application, I had been awarded the degree before the date of my application.

What do you think? Is it a good excuse to use?

Many thanks...

[lala2312]

@Potterbond009, No I submitted my dissertation in sept 2009, however the senate wasnt gonna meet until the 21st of dec. I tried to contact my uni after this date as I made my application on the 31st of Dec but was not successful because my uni closed for the holidays shortly after the senate met.

[arsenal49]

lala you have a very good case and you will get the decision in your favour... BUT, this discussion over "new" evidence is JUST to make sure that you have your back up plan because you will get only 1 chance to prove your point. Better be prepared for all the possibilities.

Wish you all the luck in the world

[lala2312]

Thanks arsenal49, your encouragement is overwhelming...

God Bless!

[TheSpread]

It mentioned that this is a confirmation of the award you are due to recieve after the senate approves of this on the 21st of dec 2010. As I have met the condition of HO by retaining #800 and above in my account from the 29th of Sept to 31st of Dec and also had a confirmation of my degree (as seen in my certificate) before the date I applied,

I think their argument is on why you were unable to provide a letter confirming your degree award as you submitted your application 10 days after the senate meeting to confirm your award. Be preapred to argue why you only submitted the letter stating that the senate would confirm your award on the 21st of dec 2009. From the above it seems like you had bank statements running until the 31st of December which is after the senate had already met to confirm your degree award so I think you will be asked why you were not able to provide a letter with the confirmed award (as surely you would have been able to contact your institutuion to provide this letter on/after the 21st) and submitted it with your application. You had 10 days to get this letter but this obviously depends on whether the offices were open at your institution during this period.

[imranhameed2000]

Hi Guys,

I need your input on my situation.

I was refused my PWS visa on the basis that I had sent an electronic copy of my lloyds statement just for the last 2 weeks of my statement as I did not have the original and my bank refused to stamp or sign it. Also, my award letter from my university, according to the home office is not sufficient because it does not confirm my degree or state that my certificate would be issued.

However, I had sent a cover letter with my statement explaining why it was not stamped or signed but this was disregarded obviously. With my award letter, at the time of my application I believed it met the requirements as it stated the name of my university, dates of study, my name, and every other relevant information as specified by the HO. It mentioned that this is a confirmation of the award you are due to recieve after the senate approves of this on the 21st of dec 2010. As I have met the condition of HO by retaining #800 and above in my account from the 29th of Sept to 31st of Dec and also had a confirmation of my degree (as seen in my certificate) before the date I applied, My question:

-as my appeal date is coming up, can I present the originals of my documents, would this be accepted as evidence that I qualify for the points I claimed

-Is it neccessary to get a lawyer

-What sort of questions would I be asked by the judge and

-Would I be penalised for telling the truth about my situation, that I believed the letter given to me by my Uni was sufficient

-if I can prove that I have been awarded the degree before my application and had sufficient money in my account at the time will that be accepted

-what could be a good excuse for not including them in my intial application

-Also, does the judge look at evidence that does not cover the time frame when the application was made e.g would he/she look into bank statement after the 31st of dec which is the date i made my application

Many thanks for your response

Lala

Please if you can share your time lines of PSW as when u applied and when u got refused because i applied on 19 jan'10 and still waiting.

Please help me on this

[potterbond007]

@ potterbond009, am so sorry to hear that.

So the judge did not refer to the certificate as a "new" evidence? I am asking because i read from a thread that the judge might see it as a new evidence and might not accept it. Anyway, I intend to present my certificate as a collaborative evidence not as "new", because eventhough I did not present it at the time of my application, I had been awarded the degree before the date of my application.

What do you think? Is it a good excuse to use?

Many thanks...

It depends a lot on the judge actually.. In my case, he did not treat the graduation certificate and the university letter i submitted as new evidence.. But he treated another bank account details from India that I submitted to cover up for the 7 pounds that came short in my account on one day during a three month period as new evidence..

[lala2312]

Hi Guys,

Just an update on the proceedings of my appeal. So as mentioned earlier my appeal was 2 days ago which was the 27th of April, I have just received the out ome of my appeal. It reads:

Considerations and findings

I have carefully considered the letter from the university which was submitted to the Respondent with the Appellant's application. The letter was dated 26 November 2009. Although the letter reffered to recommendation for the award, it clearly stated in the last sentence of the second paragraph that after 21 December the Appellant would be entitled to receive a certificate to confirm the award. The appeallant did receive the diploma on the 21 of December 2009. Therefore, I was satisfied that the appeallant was entitled to receive the points that she had claimed.

As regards the bank statements, the Appeallant did provide originals at the hearing which I compared with the copy statements in the bundle and the Respondent's bundle. The bank satements clearly showed that the appeallant had in excess of #800 from the 29 September 2009 until 31 December 2009, and beyond. I therefore find that the Appeallant was entitled to 10 points for maintenance.

On the evidence before me, I find that the appeallant has established on a balance of probabilities that she satisfied the requirements of the rules on the date of the Respondent's decision. Applying the law to the establish facts, I find that the Respondent's decision was not in accordance with the law and the applicable immigration rules. This appeal is allowed in respect of the immigration rules.

The Appeallant has not claimed that any rights protected under the 1950 convention have been breached. I am nevertheless required to consider whether the appealllant's claim engages any such rights. I find, on the facts as I have found them to be, that it does not.

DECISION.

The appeal is dismissed in respect of immigration rules.

Can anyone explain to me what they mean by this, please? Appeal allowed and appeal dismissed. Is this just an error?

Many thanks....