residency

giuseppenero · Post by **giuseppenero** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:15 am

If an EEA National is living permanently in UK, will he eventually have to get some legal UK status, or can he live indefinitely under the EEA treaty?

deon · Post by **deon** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:35 am

giuseppenero wrote:If an EEA National is living permanently in UK, will he eventually have to get some legal UK status, or can he live indefinitely under the EEA treaty?

Yes he can live here but he needs to apply for a WRS certificate. But some people have said that the WRS scheme is becoming obsolete in May. You`ll have to check the uk borders website.

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:33 am

An EEA national who is a permanent resident (PR) already has a legal "UK status". PR status is acquired automatically after 5 years (in general, earlier in some circumstances) of continuously exercising your treaty rights.

deon wrote:Yes he can live here but he needs to apply for a WRS certificate.

How did you come to this conclusion?

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:35 am

giuseppenero wrote:If an EEA National is living permanently in UK, will he eventually have to get some legal UK status, or can he live indefinitely under the EEA treaty?

What sort of legal status do you mean?
An EEA national can legally come to live and work in the UK without any formalities, restrictions or problems, for as long as he or she wants.

OK, there are some temporary restrictions for nationals of the newer EU countries. For the countries that joined in 2004 these restrictions will disappear in May (7 years after the accession).

giuseppenero · Post by **giuseppenero** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:08 pm

I have taken early retirement, too early for a pension, but financially self sufficient. By legal status I meant (excluding voting rights), things like access to health care, obtaining a new driver's license.
In a year or so, both my EHIC health card and Italian driver's license will expire.
Can I obtain the British version of these two items under the EEA treaty?
The gov't. websites do not delve into these things.
Thanks

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:47 pm

Maybe you should provide a little bit more detail regards your personal circumstances. Was the EHIC issued by Italy? I would expect it to be valid for only short term visits to other member states. As a self-sufficient person you are required to have separate comprehensive sickness insurance (not NHS in the view of the UKBA). Are you still covered through a policy from Italy? Driving licences can be exchange, look here for details.

You may also want to have a look through the ECIS.

giuseppenero · Post by **giuseppenero** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:15 pm

After reading a few pages on the Dept. of Health website and UKBA, I get the impression that as long as a person has the "right of residency", which an EEA national would have, health care is free, provided a person can prove ( to the hospital or to GP ) his "intent" to live permanently in the UK. The decision is made by the health care giver at the time.
I refer to http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Enti ... /Browsable
Thanks

86ti · Post by **86ti** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:27 pm

I am very well aware what the DH and NHS say. The UKBA thinks otherwise. Read the ECIS and also look through this forum for the 'self-sufficiency problem'.

giuseppenero · Post by **giuseppenero** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:57 pm

P.s.. Yes the EHIC card was issued in italy. I get the impression that these cards are for use as visitor/tourist only, and that any charges to the card are reimbursed to the health provider (hosp. or GP) by the origine State of the card. (where it was issued)
And that, in the UK at least, a local NHS card is not an i.d. document and does not need to be produced to a health provider. You "only" need to show documentation to prove your residency. ( Which in my opinion, is asking the health givers to act also as a border agents. Incidently in Italy, a simple flat-rental contract will get you a residency card, known as "Identity Card", and that in turn will get you a health card, which you simply produce to a health provider with no questions asked. The resident/Idendity card is renewable ( by Town Council ) every ten years and has nothing to with citizenship. It may sound like "big brother" to some, but it really i8s just a very functional document.)
Just thought you'd like know.
Thanks for all your help

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:02 pm

In my experience neither NHS nor DVLA do thorough checks on the status of EU nationals. Your passport and a proof of address is all they require.

UKBA is awkward with their demand for private insurance for some categories, and in my opinion it is based on a wrong interpretation of directive 2004/38.
If someone would make it a matter of principle and get it referred to the ECJ, I don't think this demand would survive.

And my personal plan: after retirement I would not stay in the UK but go to a country with a better climate and a better health care system (still haven't made my choice from the abundance of candidates...)

giuseppenero · Post by **giuseppenero** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:07 pm

Dear Fysicus. I think the grass always seems greener on the other side. Unfortunately, it seems to me that the better the climate-the worse the health care. As I am trying to do, have you figured out how your health care will be covered? You can strike Italy from your list of candidates especially in the warmer climates..where health care resembles a "mash" unit.
You might look at Spain and Portugal (including the Azores ).
Let me know what you find.

fysicus · Post by **fysicus** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:27 pm

giuseppenero wrote:Dear Fysicus. I think the grass always seems greener on the other side. Unfortunately, it seems to me that the better the climate-the worse the health care. As I am trying to do, have you figured out how your health care will be covered? You can strike Italy from your list of candidates especially in the warmer climates..where health care resembles a "mash" unit.
You might look at Spain and Portugal (including the Azores ).
Let me know what you find.

My retirement is still quite a few years in the future, and I might simply go back to my country of origin, which also currently meets the criteria I mentioned. I forgot to mention that the height of the language barrier should also come into the equation.
But who knows what can happen in five or ten years from now?

As I am exercising treaty rights by being in employment, and also have acquired PR some years ago already, I have here in the UK the same access to services as British Citizens (except voting rights)

giuseppenero · Post by **giuseppenero** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:46 am

Dear 86ti:
After checking your recommended reading, I see by sec. 3.0-3.4 of the Rights of Movement of EEA Nationals, that a person claiming "self-sufficient" has NO right to benefits of any kind and must have private insurance. And, that also holds true for one claiming to be a "jobseeker". He is simultaneously deemed to be a "self-sufficient" with no social benefits as outlined in Art. nÂ° 24(2) of the Treaty Directives ( so it says ). ( However, as I recall reading somewhere, free emergency treatment due to an accident is provided regardless of legal status. )
May I deduce then, that normal healthcare is only available to income-tax payers?
I wonder if the hospitals and the GP's are up to speed and/or adhere to these resrictions.
By rights (or at least my deduction ), you should all be carrying along your last income-tax file papers or your last pay-stub, in order to prove to a health-care provider that you are indeed entitled! That sounds right, but I hope it's not.
Any recommendations for a reputable health ins. company?
Thank you

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