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Conflict with employer over my job level

Only for the UK Skilled Worker visas, formerly known as Tier 2 visa route

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asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:05 pm

Hello,

I've been working with my current employer for a year and a half. I am on PSW visa right now but it expires in Jan 2013. I asked my employer if they could sponsor me. They did their research and came back saying I am eligible (in terms of my salary, maintenance requirements, have been working for more than 6 months etc.) but they think my job is a Borderline job (below NQF Level 3).

Now this assessment surprised me because I work in Equality and Diversity and do a lot of work around the equality legislation, writing briefings and reports and on public relations and promotions via various media channels. It is clearly not a non-graduate level job.

I think my job can easily be assessed at NQF Level 4 or higher. So, I am now in conflict with my employer over this. I was wondering if any of you knew any guides to clearly identify which level my job is (we have already looked at the UKBA guidance) or if somebody could definitively advice on this? Or if any of you have been in a similar situation and what you did to resolve it?

I would be very grateful for any help!

Asiya

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Post by Greenie » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:09 pm

Has your employer told you which job they have identified in the relevent code of practice as matching yours?

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:14 pm

Greenie wrote:Has your employer told you which job they have identified in the relevent code of practice as matching yours?
They just said 'one of the Borderline jobs'. But I am guessing (speculating actually looking at the examples of job tasks in the UKBA guidance) that they've gone for Personal Assistants/Secretaries. I, on the other hand, think that my job can fit under 'Public Relations Officer/Publicity Assistant'. The trouble is that a specialist job like Equality and Diversity is never going to feature on the UKBA list, so we have to find the job that matches the best!

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:17 pm

Greenie wrote:Has your employer told you which job they have identified in the relevent code of practice as matching yours?
Here's what they said to me:

I have looked through the attached document, which details Administrative Support posts, and the only post I can find which may fit yours is under Borderline jobs on Page 7, so jobs at NQF (equivalent to NVQ) Level 3.

The advice I received from the UKBA when I communicated the above information to them is as follows:

Unfortunately it is only situations where the migrant is switching from Tier 2 or a work permit where the job can be NQF level 3. All other applications would require the job to be at NQF level 4, and as you mentioned, this will increase to NQF level 6 in June.

As Asiya’s post would definitely not qualify under NQF Level 4, this means that she does not satisfy the UKBA definition of a Skilled Worker. Therefore, her application would be unsuccessful.

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Post by Greenie » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:18 pm

you need to get them to tell you exactly which job they have identified as the one that most closely matches yours. If you disagree with them and have identified one that is more appropriate then suggest this to them and see what they say.

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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:22 pm

Greenie wrote:you need to get them to tell you exactly which job they have identified as the one that most closely matches yours. If you disagree with them and have identified one that is more appropriate then suggest this to them and see what they say.
Thank you so much for your reply. I am doing that - I have another meeting with HR tomorrow. But judging from their emails, I think it'll be hard to convince them. Even my salary matches NQF Level 4 salary, so it's silly that they are qualifying it as NQF Level3/Borderline. I was just wondering what I should do if I can't get them to agree with me??

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Post by Greenie » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:23 pm

do you have a union?

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:24 pm

Greenie wrote:do you have a union?
Yes - do you think that should be my next step?? I am not a member of the union yet but yes we do have one.

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Re: Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:28 pm

UPDATE:
My employer has now told me that my job does not match ANY of the SOC codes sufficiently, so they can't sponsor me.

I work as Equality and Diversity Assistant and a lot of my work is around communications, publicity and promotions. I manage a blog and website and write reports and briefings. So I thought I could match SOC code for PR Officers/Publicity Assistants. But HR said that I don't match it 'sufficiently'. I asked them if they had identified another SOC code that matched my job and they said no.

My understanding was that the UKBA expects employers to match jobs to the 'most relevant' or 'most appropriate' SOC code and that a job would not necessarily match UKBA's example job 100%. So if my job matches the example job 70-80%, I should be eligible for sponsorship. Is this right?
asiyaislam wrote:
Greenie wrote:do you have a union?
Yes - do you think that should be my next step?? I am not a member of the union yet but yes we do have one.

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Post by Shamino » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:46 pm

Where can I find information on NQF levels and SOC details?

I need to have a read over the general requirements for NQF, given that I'm a researcher, I don't know which level I would be in?

Cheers

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:17 pm

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/busin ... fpractice/
Shamino wrote:Where can I find information on NQF levels and SOC details?

I need to have a read over the general requirements for NQF, given that I'm a researcher, I don't know which level I would be in?

Cheers

Shamino
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Post by Shamino » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:03 pm

Asiyaislam

Many thanks for that :)

I had a looked at this

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

My role also involves researching legislation and writing reports and is neither a non-graduate level job

I was thinking mine could fit into market researcher

I will need to run this with my boss

Thanks for the infor

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Re: Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by Greenie » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:18 pm

asiyaislam wrote:UPDATE:
My employer has now told me that my job does not match ANY of the SOC codes sufficiently, so they can't sponsor me.

I work as Equality and Diversity Assistant and a lot of my work is around communications, publicity and promotions. I manage a blog and website and write reports and briefings. So I thought I could match SOC code for PR Officers/Publicity Assistants. But HR said that I don't match it 'sufficiently'. I asked them if they had identified another SOC code that matched my job and they said no.

My understanding was that the UKBA expects employers to match jobs to the 'most relevant' or 'most appropriate' SOC code and that a job would not necessarily match UKBA's example job 100%. So if my job matches the example job 70-80%, I should be eligible for sponsorship. Is this right?
asiyaislam wrote:
Greenie wrote:do you have a union?
Yes - do you think that should be my next step?? I am not a member of the union yet but yes we do have one.
Yes the description doesn't have to match exactly. Is the real issue that they are not willing to sponsor you? As suggested before you should seek advice from your trade union as this is a dispute between you and your employer.

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Re: Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:23 pm

Yes, that is the real issue - they don't seem particularly keen to sponsor me. I am not sure why. My manager and her manager are supportive, it's HR that's resistant to it. As I said, I don't know why.

I am going to appeal against the discussion. I have contacted my union - they will get back to me soon. But in the meanwhile, I would like to get legal advice on this.

Is there any guidance that says the job doesn't have to match the SOC code completely?

Many thanks.
Greenie wrote:
asiyaislam wrote:UPDATE:
My employer has now told me that my job does not match ANY of the SOC codes sufficiently, so they can't sponsor me.

I work as Equality and Diversity Assistant and a lot of my work is around communications, publicity and promotions. I manage a blog and website and write reports and briefings. So I thought I could match SOC code for PR Officers/Publicity Assistants. But HR said that I don't match it 'sufficiently'. I asked them if they had identified another SOC code that matched my job and they said no.

My understanding was that the UKBA expects employers to match jobs to the 'most relevant' or 'most appropriate' SOC code and that a job would not necessarily match UKBA's example job 100%. So if my job matches the example job 70-80%, I should be eligible for sponsorship. Is this right?
asiyaislam wrote:
Greenie wrote:do you have a union?
Yes - do you think that should be my next step?? I am not a member of the union yet but yes we do have one.
Yes the description doesn't have to match exactly. Is the real issue that they are not willing to sponsor you? As suggested before you should seek advice from your trade union as this is a dispute between you and your employer.

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Post by Greenie » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:34 pm

Yes its in the tier 2 sponsor guidance.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... sguidance/

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Post by johnjkjk » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:10 pm

Has a rlmt for your job been carried out yet?

If it has, the job centre assigns an soc code automatically. You could use this to argue that a particular code is applicable.

I would rather suspect that your HR function is seeking to be very careful to cover themselves. Tier 2 can now only be sponsored for graduate level jobs and a company can get in trouble down the line if it's been certifying jobs as being at or above graduate level and they're not.

You're unlikely to 'win' legally as a company has no obligation to issue you with a cos, even if you have a contract (issued under a previous visa category).

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Post by manci » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:58 am

johnjkjk wrote:Has a rlmt for your job been carried out yet?

If it has, the job centre assigns an soc code automatically. You could use this to argue that a particular code is applicable.
.
If Asiyaislam has current leave in the PSW category when he applies for leave in the T2G category then the sponsor is exempt from carrying out a RLMT. (see paragraph 86 in the T2 policy guidance)

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Post by johnjkjk » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:57 am

Manci- yes, you're right re rlmt, I didn't realise that the op is on PSW.

I still believe that an employer is not obliged to sponsor when psw expires, if they have the slightest inkling that the position may not for whatever reason they have a concern about the position not meeting skill level rules.

Not fitting into a particular soc code is in itself an excuse.

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:23 pm

Hello,

Thank you for your responses. As mentioned, I am exempt from RLMT because I am on PSW right now.

As far as the level of the job is concerned, my employer originally said that they evaluated my job to be NQF Level 3. But after I disputed, I was told that my job does not match any of the jobs on the SOC code list sufficiently.

So now the matter is less about the 'level' and more about matching it to one of the jobs on the SOC code list!

I do understand that the employer has no legal obligation to sponsor me but they are being really unfair about the whole assessment!

I contacted Citizens Advice Bureau about this and they are unable to comment to on the 'job-matching' exercise. I don't know what to do! :cry:

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Post by johnjkjk » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:49 pm

The suitable soc has to be selected. In my case, my code is professionals not elsewhere classified: there is always a code one can apply.

Working on the premise that your employer is claiming it to be difficult to find a suitable code, is an excuse for being reluctant to sponsor in the first place, you must examine why they don't want to sponsor you.

It seems that this is because they are not fully certain of the job level and are hiding behind soc. Could you please share your job description for us to comment? You can pm me.

asiyaislam
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Post by asiyaislam » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:56 pm

johnjkjk wrote:The suitable soc has to be selected. In my case, my code is professionals not elsewhere classified: there is always a code one can apply.

Working on the premise that your employer is claiming it to be difficult to find a suitable code, is an excuse for being reluctant to sponsor in the first place, you must examine why they don't want to sponsor you.

It seems that this is because they are not fully certain of the job level and are hiding behind soc. Could you please share your job description for us to comment? You can pm me.
My job is definitely above graduate level. It's quite specialist too, it requires the postholder to have understanding of equality and diversity legislation.

I work as admin staff in a university. I think they are reluctant to sponsor me because they don't want to set a precedent, they have so far sponsored only academic staff.

I will send you the job description. Is there any way I can attach it to this topic?

Many thanks!

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:59 pm

Here's my JOB DESCRIPTION:

Job Description

This form summarises the purpose of the job and lists its key tasks. It is not a definitive list of all the tasks to be undertaken as those can be varied from time to time at the discretion of the School, in consultation with the post-holder.

Job Summary: The Equality and Diversity Assistant will be responsible for promoting, and assisting in the development, implementation and monitoring of the School’s equality objectives to ensure that it meets its obligations in terms of equality legislation. The post-holder will help to develop and adopt best practice so that the institution leads on wider diversity objectives and will report to the Equality and Diversity Adviser.

Duties and Responsibilities

Communication

Oral
• Offer basic advice and signpost on matters relating to equality and diversity legislation and procedures and practices in the School.
• Facilitate focus groups and forum discussions.
• Deliver monthly staff induction presentations.
• Design and deliver presentations on the Equality Act 2010, and other aspects of equality and diversity, to various divisions/services in the School, as required.

Written or electronic
• Arrange meetings and take minutes for the Equality and Diversity Informal Working Group and other ad hoc groups, as required.
• Draft briefings on equality and diversity legislation.
• Prepare good practice guidance on various aspects of equality and diversity to further the School’s equality objectives.
• Manage the Equality and Diversity webpages.
• Manage and edit the Equality and Diversity blog, regularly populating it with relevant content and using it as a platform to publicise Equality and Diversity activities on campus.
• Produce and manage publicity and promotional material for Equality and Diversity, assessing gaps in information and the needs and demands of the audience.
• Manage and disseminate equality and diversity related content through other social media channels (Twitter, Facebook etc.)

Teamwork and motivation
• Provide support to the Equality and Diversity Adviser in the integration of equality and diversity policies and initiatives across the School.
• Support the Equality and Diversity Adviser in embedding equality and diversity principles into staff and student activities organised by internal training providers such as HR.
• Assist with monitoring the Equality Analysis process.

Liaison and networking
• Gather data necessary to monitor and assess progress on equality and diversity activity.
• Coordinate with the Design Unit for publication projects and ensure consistency of branding.
• Work with the Equality and Diversity Events and Promotions group to devise programmes and strategies for publicity.
• Liaise with existing staff networks, student societies/officers and external groups to build working relationships.
• Undertake consultation on policies, briefings and guidance, as required.
• Develop internal and external networks to solicit contributions for the Equality and Diversity at blog.
Service delivery
• Provide basic advice on equality and diversity related matters, including legislation and direct staff and students to appropriate internal resources available.
• Assess the needs and demands of the audience in planning events, programmes and promotions.
• Keep up to date with national and regional equality and diversity developments, including legislation, to promote best practice in the School.

Decision making
• Promote equality and diversity activities on the campus through various channels (such as, by liaising with existing networks, by contributing to and participating in promotions projects and campaigns), assessing gaps in information and the needs and demands of the audience.
• Manage the Equality and Diversity blog, taking editorial decisions on the content of the blog.
• Plan the promotion of long-term strategies and projects for furthering equality and diversity on the campus, in consultation with the Equality and Diversity Adviser.

Planning and organising resources
• Manage projects for promoting equality and diversity on the campus.
• Regularly update content on the Equality and Diversity blog.
• Facilitate the monitoring of progress on the School’s equality objectives.

Initiative and problem solving
• Take initiatives to promote equality and diversity activities on the campus through various channels, including events and promotions.
• Develop channels to maintain a regular flow of content for the Equality and Diversity blog.
Analysis and research
• Gather information for analysis/research purposes on behalf of the Equality and Diversity Adviser.
• Assist with monitoring the Equality Analysis process.
• Collate information for monitoring the progress on the School's equality objectives.

Pastoral care and welfare
• Offer basic advice to staff and students on matters relating to equality and diversity.
• Direct staff and students seeking help and support to resources available in the School (such as Counselling Service, Health and Safety, Disability and Wellbeing Service etc.)
Knowledge and experience
• Keep up to date with national and regional equality and diversity developments, including legislation.
• Attend conferences, seminars and trainings to gain awareness of and enhance expertise in current equality and diversity issues and practices.

Flexibility
To deliver services effectively, a degree of flexibility is needed, and the post holder may be required to perform work not specifically referred to above.

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Post by khans » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:09 pm

Hi,

Please check the job code you will be using is NQF Level-6 or not. After 14th June 2012 only jobs at or above NQF Level 6 qualify for tier-2 general.

Here's the link to updated codes valid from 14th of June 2012:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... e2012-cop/

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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:05 pm

Thank you. I have checked. The SOC code I am arguing for (PR Officer/Publicity Assistant) is now Level 6 (it was previously Level 4).

asiyaislam
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Conflict with employer over my job level

Post by asiyaislam » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:38 am

Hello,
I have sought advice from Citizens Advice Bureau on this and while they said they can't comment on the job matching exercise, they cited a case that I think can be useful for me. I thought many of you might also be interested in looking at it.

OSBORNE CLARKE SERVICES v PUROHIT - an employer indirectly discriminated against an Indian national when it refused to consider his application to become a trainee solicitor on account of its policy of not recruiting anyone for such a post if they would require a work permit . In the absence of evidence of any dialogue between the employer and the Border and Immigration Agency over the possibility of a work permit being issued, or of any attempts to apply for a permit , the employer did not begin to establish the level of evidence that is required to prove objective justification for its policy. The Code of Practice on facial Equality in Employment makes it clear that selection should, as far as possible, be based purely on merit and that work permit issues should only come into consideration at the later stage of selection.

While my case is about continuing employment, not recruitment, the same principles should apply.

I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on my job description and whether you think it could match with the SOC code for publicity assistant?

Thanks,
Asiya

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