Some clarifications on EEA2, EEA3 and related questions

[iainmacb]

Hello everyone,

I am a Spanish national with a Scottish father and Spanish mother, and I have been living in the UK since I was 7. I married a USA American in August, and I have a few questions that I would be very grateful if someone could clarify.

1- Am I correct in saying that completion of an EEA2 form is NOT compulsory for my wife, simply useful as it makes life easier when travelling into the UK?

2- Would it be helpful to my application if I first completed an application for an EEA3? I know I don't need it as I am an EEA national, and I already have citizenship rights through my father who was Scottish born.

3- For the EEA2 form (which we will complete, compulsory or not), is there a requirement to send your actual passports? Can you send notarised copies of it?

4- I hold a UK driving license, can I send that instead of my passport? (for the EEA2 application)

5- If it is a requirement to send the passports, is there a way to get them back before the completion of the application? We travel quite a lot and I don't think there will be a 6 month period of time where we will not.

I look forward to any responses, and in time I hope I'll be able to help in return!

Thanks very much,

Iain

[Jambo]

I believe you are dual national British and Spanish. The UK has imposed restrictions on British nationals to make use of their other EEA citizenship for immigration purposes. Those changes are coming into effect this coming Tuesday.

Unfortunately, as you got married only in August I believe you can't benefit from the old rules (your wife had to be living in the UK in July to be able to enjoy from the old rules).

[sum1]

You probably cannot make use of the EEA route because you are a British citizens. In what way would you have or are you exercising treaty rights? (Only providing cross-EU services come to mind but I wouldn't know how that works in the UK.)

[iainmacb]

Due to national laws, Spain does not permit dual-nationality, and as a result I am only a spanish national (I hold a Spanish passport), while I have the option to become a British national if I relinquish my Spanish one.

British citizenship does not imply nationality as they are two separate premises.

[sum1]

I guess we have assumed that you are British because you were born to a British father. Why would that not be the case? Spain may not allow dual-nationality but there are usually exceptions for children.

[Jambo]

The UK authorities might view it differently as your British citizenship was obtained automatically at birth.

If you are Spanish and only Spanish (and this is how you would answer the "are you also British" question on the application form), then I suggest your read - EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - Residence Card.

As for your questions:

1) Yes.
2) See FAQ.
3) Yes. Original passport.
4) No.
5) See FAQ.

[iainmacb]

I guess we have assumed that you are British because you were born to a British father. Why would that not be the case? Spain may not allow dual-nationality but there are usually exceptions for children.

Spain only allows dual nationality with certain historically Spanish countries, basically the ones in South America and the Caribbean. I know for a fact that I can apply through the EEA route, as I spoke to the head of UKBA immigration in Scotland (my step father is friends with him).

Would anyone be able to help in answering questions 1, 3, 4 and 5 in particular?

[Jambo]

Check my previous post in case you missed it as we posted at the same time.

[sum1]

Then the Wikipedia entry must be wrong as it claims that Spaniards by origin may have dual nationality.

[iainmacb]

The UK authorities might view it differently as your British citizenship was obtained automatically at birth.

If you are Spanish and only Spanish (and this is how you would answer the "are you also British" question on the application form), then I suggest your read - EEA FAQs - Common Questions - Read before posting - Residence Card.

As for your questions:

1) Yes.
2) See FAQ.
3) Yes. Original passport.
4) No.
5) See FAQ.

Thank you very much!

[iainmacb]

Then the Wikipedia entry must be wrong as it claims that Spaniards by origin may have dual nationality.

This is rather worrying. The UKBA guy was pretty sure of the fact. I may need to have another meeting with him. Thanks for the heads up.

Can someone give me a link to the new law that was mentioned where you cannot use your other EEA nationality?

[sum1]

Wikipedia is certainly not the final authority here. It matters what the nationality laws (both ES and UK) were like when you were born.

Here a link to the amendment. It's in the definition of "EEA national" in 1(d).

[iainmacb]

Wikipedia is certainly not the final authority here. It matters what the nationality laws (both ES and UK) were like when you were born.

Here a link to the amendment. It's in the definition of "EEA national" in 1(d).

Thanks very much!

[iainmacb]

Just a quick thought. My wife was already in the UK in July under the fiancee visa. Do you think that would make her exempt from the new rule, if it were to apply to me?

[Jambo]

I believe Spain allows dual nationality for children but not for adults (except those Latin America countries).

In any case, even if Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, the UK might still see you as British unless you actively renounced your citizenship.

[iainmacb]

I believe Spain allows dual nationality for children but not for adults (except those Latin America countries).

In any case, even if Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, the UK might still see you as British unless you actively renounced your citizenship.

So I can renounce my UK citizenship yet still have all the rights of a UK citizen under the EEA laws? Seems ridiculous, but certainly a handy loophole.

How would you renounce citizenship by birth?

[iainmacb]

I believe Spain allows dual nationality for children but not for adults (except those Latin America countries).

In any case, even if Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, the UK might still see you as British unless you actively renounced your citizenship.

So I can renounce my UK citizenship yet still have all the rights of a UK citizen under the EEA laws? Seems ridiculous, but certainly a handy loophole.

How would you renounce citizenship by birth?

Never mind, I found it. Thanks.

Immigration... What a pain.

[Jambo]

I believe Spain allows dual nationality for children but not for adults (except those Latin America countries).

In any case, even if Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, the UK might still see you as British unless you actively renounced your citizenship.

So I can renounce my UK citizenship yet still have all the rights of a UK citizen under the EEA laws? Seems ridiculous, but certainly a handy loophole.

How would you renounce citizenship by birth?

If you renounce your BC you won't have the same rights a British person. For example, you won't be allowed to vote in the UK elections.

I would examine other avenues before renouncing a citizenship.

If your username in the forum is indication to your real name, then I suspect the HO would want to verify if you are British or not. It doesn't really sound Spanish.....

Did she came on a Fiancée visa under the UK immigration rules ?

[iainmacb]

I believe Spain allows dual nationality for children but not for adults (except those Latin America countries).

In any case, even if Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, the UK might still see you as British unless you actively renounced your citizenship.

So I can renounce my UK citizenship yet still have all the rights of a UK citizen under the EEA laws? Seems ridiculous, but certainly a handy loophole.

How would you renounce citizenship by birth?

If you renounce your BC you won't have the same rights a British person. For example, you won't be allowed to vote in the UK elections.

I would examine other avenues before renouncing a citizenship.

If your username in the forum is indication to your real name, then I suspect the HO would want to verify if you are British or not. It doesn't really sound Spanish.....

Did she came on a Fiancée visa under the UK immigration rules ?

But EEA nationals can vote in UK elections. Not that it bothers me as we will only be living here for at most 3 years.

I have a Spanish mother and Scottish father, hence Iain Mac, but my surname is very 'unscottish' (Spanish naming is weird). I also hold a Spanish passport (and no UK one) and birth certificate..

Yes, she came under the UK immigration rules. Our application for her was before the new amendment in July.

Edit: the application was approved before the new amendment.

[jotter]

Note, for the record, that EEA non-UK nationals can only vote in local elections in the UK, not in parliamentary ones. As you said, though, that's not a big deal if you're only here 3 years.

[Jambo]

It's a bit tricky as there is no provision for fiancée under the EEA regulations (I guess that is the reason you chose UK immigration visa).

She only obtained rights once you got married which is after the July deadline.

My advice would be to compile a quick application on Monday and send it Next Day Special Delivery so it would reach the HO on Tuesday 16/10 when the amendments take effect. If you work, it should be easy to compile an application – Spanish passport, US passport, 2-3 payslips, 2 photos, marriage certificate.

You would still need to decide how to answer the “are you also a British national?”. You might get away with it and if not, then at least you got an application in time for the transitional arrangements and maybe can argue your point there.

[sum1]

Note, for the record, that EEA non-UK nationals can only vote in local elections in the UK, not in parliamentary ones.

For completeness: an EEA national can also choose UK to vote in the European Parliament elections.