Im breach of EU Law? PR

[englishman9]

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... ren_en.htm

According to this information, it is not necessary to supply any other documents apart from a valid residence card and bank statements etc to prove residency in order to get a Permanent Residence card.
Is the UK or other EU countries in breach of these rules regarding their requirements for prove or exercising treaty rights etc?[/quote]

[Lucapooka]

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... cklist.pdf

They ask for proof. If bank statements alone are proof then obviously that is all that is necessary. In your case, are bank statements sufficient to show an unbroken period of residence where you have exercised EU treaty rights?

Debating the legality of this is perhaps academic as it's the reality rather than the legality that you have to face. Otherwise get lawyered up and head for the courts. Good luck with that!

[englishman9]

According to the following, your spouse etc will automatically acquire the right of permanent residence so why is it necessary to show prove of exercising treaty rights if you are just requiring prove of rights already acquired?

"After living legally in your new country in the EU continuously for 5 years, your non-EU spouse and (grand)children automatically acquire the right of permanent residence there without having to meet any further conditions - they can stay as long as they want even if they don't work and need income support."
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/re ... ren_en.htm

Yes I would like to highlight this if it is in breach

[Lucapooka]

It's automatic acquisition if the necessary requirements have been fulfilled. So you then have to prove the necessary requirements; they won't just take your word for it. Merely being present in the UK is not sufficient to showing the requirements have been fulfilled; you have to have lived according to the rules rather than outside the rules.

The law is often said to be 5% citation and 95% application but ,as suggested, if you have a personal bone to pick over this issue you should challenge the UKBA's stance through the courts.

[Englandd]

yes lucpooka is right.
Non-eea partner gets its rights from the activities of EEA partner and if EEA partner continuously perform these activities (eu treaty rights) for 5 years then EEA national automatically acquire the PR status. But there is nothing automatic for non-eea national except be depend on eea national and his/her all activities are irrelevant.
If you are self sufficient then bank statement can serve the both purposes self sufficiency (treaty rights) and residence.

[Lucapooka]

But there is nothing automatic for non-eea national except be depend on eea national and his/her all activities are irrelevant.

I'm confused by this comment, as the activities of the EU national are completely and solely relevant. The activities of the non-EU dependant are to merely have been in the UK for an unbroken five year period. It's the EU national who has to show how he or she has exercised the treaty rights for the previous five years (or otherwise be exempt from this due to having PR). Only if the EU national has been self-sufficient on the income of the non-EU dependant partner, would there be a need for evidence of the non-EU dependant's activity (and both parties having CSI throughout).

[Englandd]

But there is nothing automatic for non-eea national except be depend on eea national and his/her all activities are irrelevant.

I'm confused by this comment, as the activities of the EU national are completely and solely relevant. The activities of the non-EU dependant are to merely have been in the UK for an unbroken five year period. It's the EU national who has to show how he or she has exercised the treaty rights for the previous five years (or otherwise be exempt from this due to having PR). Only if the EU national has been self-sufficient on the income of the non-EU dependant partner, would there be a need for evidence of the non-EU dependant's activity (and both parties having CSI throughout).

It means as long as EEA partner is excercising eu treaty rights and having the relationship with non-eea partner, the non-eea partner is automatically legal which means non-eea national depends on eea national despite making eea national self sufficient by its earning. Without the above mentioned criteria non-eea national does not get anything automatic.
CSI is to make sure that all family members will not become a burden on member state.

[Lucapooka]

Okay, thanks, that's more clear. Your original comment seemed to encapsulate eea national and his/her all activities not being relevant into the same relative clause, which is why I questioned this logic.

[englishman9]

Quoting lucapooka
"It's the EU national who has to show how he or she has exercised the treaty rights for the previous five years (or otherwise be exempt from this due to having PR). Only if the EU national has been self-sufficient on the income of the non-EU dependant partner, would there be a need for evidence of the non-EU dependant's activity (and both parties having CSI throughout)"

How would someone be exempt?
I, as the EU National, though I am also British having exercised treaty rights in another EU country, have PR and citizenship of the UK, would I not need to exercise treaty rights within the UK nor my partner?

[Obie]

Well the residence document itself does not confer right, what confer rights is the EEA nationality exercising treaty rights and residing in the UK.

There is a world of difference between, intitial right of residence and Extended right of resident and permanant residence for the former there are no conditions attached, for the two later provisions, you have to prove the EEA national is a qualified person.

Even though not specifially stated in the Directive, i am sure the memberstates are required to enquire what the EEA national has been doing over the years, as their legal residence is dependant on whether they have been exercising treaty rights over the period preceeding the PR application.

[englishman9]

My partner has been granted a residence card of a family member of an EEA national for 5 years.

I just wanted more information about what Lucapooka said. Does someone who has PR in UK not have to be exercising treaty rights?

[Jambo]

If you are British who returned to the UK via the Surinder Singh route, you are not required to exercise treaty rights, can claim benefits and you wife would achieve PR after 5 years of residence in the UK.

[englishman9]

Hi thanks jambo
Do you know where this is documented either on UK government website or EU law?
Does anyone have experience of this?

[Jambo]

Hi thanks jambo
Do you know where this is documented either on UK government website or EU law?
Does anyone have experience of this?

See similar discussion on this topic - Surinder Singh route whilst pregnant and the links posted there (on both pages).