Help with EEA4 application, please

[lapkapups]

Hi All!

I was wondering if anyone here can help or give advice on the situation. My husband is Spanish and I am not from an EU country. Both my husband and I have been living in the UK since 2005, got married in October 2007 and so I will have to apply under EEA4 in October this year as my current visa is running out as well. However, we have a problem with the documents HO requires to show that my husband was excersicing his treaty rights. He lost his job in January 2009 and couldn't find anything else until September 2010. Therefore he stayed unemployed for around 18 months or so and I really don't know what documents I can provide to cover this period. The only thing we've got is confirmations of his applications, refusals and some interview invitations. He didn't apply for job seeker's allowance. And one more thing, he didn't have any medical insurance - we simply didn't know about this requirement and since we both could use NHS services it never came to our mind that we had to get a private one.

Any idea what's possible to be done?

Another question that I've got is passports. Is there any way not to send them with the application? Our baby is due 1 month after I will apply and I need both our passports to be able to register it and get both nationalities. I don't see how I can apply and keep the passports as well.

Any help or ideas will be much appreciated.

Thank you!

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

Another question that I've got is passports. Is there any way not to send them with the application? Our baby is due 1 month after I will apply and I need both our passports to be able to register it and get both nationalities. I don't see how I can apply and keep the passports as well.

In order to apply, one generally needs to submit passports (or ID card in case of EU national). To avoid rejection this is what I would suggest you did. You can ask for passport back at the same time as you make the application.

You could argue that the home office have already seen your passports from previous applications and so would not need to see them again and others have done just this.

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC ... maica.html

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

He lost his job in January 2009 and couldn't find anything else until September 2010. Therefore he stayed unemployed for around 18 months or so and I really don't know what documents I can provide to cover this period. The only thing we've got is confirmations of his applications, refusals and some interview invitations. He didn't apply for job seeker's allowance. And one more thing, he didn't have any medical insurance - we simply didn't know about this requirement and since we both could use NHS services it never came to our mind that we had to get a private one.

A worker does not automatically cease to be considered to be a worker in the case of involuntary unemployment.

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

From thr directive article 7.3

For the purposes of paragraph 1(a), a Union citizen who is no longer a worker or self-employed person shall retain the status of worker or self-employed person in the following circumstances:
(a) he/she is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident;
(b) he/she is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed for more than one year and has registered as a job-seeker with the relevant employment office

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

and from the regulations, reg 6

(2) A person who is no longer working shall not cease to be treated as a worker for the purpose of paragraph (1)(b) if—
(a) he is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident;
(b) he is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed in the United Kingdom, provided that he has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office and—
(i) he was employed for one year or more before becoming unemployed;
(ii) he has been unemployed for no more than six months; or
(iii) he can provide evidence that he is seeking employment in the United Kingdom and has a genuine chance of being engaged

[lapkapups]

You could argue that the home office have already seen your passports from previous applications and so would not need to see them again and others have done just this.

I think it is going to take much longer and will be more complicated than just sending in the passports and requesting them back. I'm just worried, can they refuse to return the passports if I ask for them?

[lapkapups]

and from the regulations, reg 6

(2) A person who is no longer working shall not cease to be treated as a worker for the purpose of paragraph (1)(b) if—
(a) he is temporarily unable to work as the result of an illness or accident;
(b) he is in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having been employed in the United Kingdom, provided that he has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office and—
(i) he was employed for one year or more before becoming unemployed;
(ii) he has been unemployed for no more than six months; or
(iii) he can provide evidence that he is seeking employment in the United Kingdom and has a genuine chance of being engaged

It's worse than that. He wasn't registered with Job Centre as they told him they only register people who want to apply for Jobseekers Allowance and he didn't want. He did register with a few recruitment agencies, will this do? Also, I don't know what is "duly recorded" unemployment but he left his job himself as he was fed up with it and wanted to open his own business with a friend. The idea failed and he started to look for something else, so his unemployment was not "involuntary" - unless this term applies to the fact that he couldn't find anything else for so long. Then, he was unemployed for much more than 6 months - 18 months in total. It's so unfair that I depend on his employment in this case - I was employed all the time during these 5 years and have all the P60s and payslips, but they wouldn't care

[EUsmileWEallsmile]

can they refuse to return the passports if I ask for them?

No, they can't.

[lapkapups]

[quote="No, they can't.

And I can ask for both passports back, not only my EEA spouse?

Judging by the rules above, my husband won't be able to qualify as a worker as his unemployment lasted longer than 6 months. In this case is it better for him to state he was a job-seeker or self-sufficient? We can show enough funds to be self-sufficient to cover the period but we can't show the sickness insurance. However, I think for a job-seeker the SI is not required, am I wrong? If we go by the job-seeker's route, how many evidence of looking for employment should we provide? My husband thinks that one for each month is enough, I think that the more the better, what would you suggest?

We've also decided that he's going to apply on EEA3 now and see what will happen. If they grant him PR I will apply on EEA4 using the same documents in October and can argue that if they issued PR to him I have the right for it as well. However, if they refuse his application, I take it mine won't stand any chance, am I right?

[lapkapups]

Update. In case this situation will help anyone.

Applied on Wed 26th June 2012. Requested passport back this morning - hopefully they'll send it back quick as we are going on holidays in 4 weeks. We'll see what they say. Applied as a job seeker.

[lapkapups]

Update.

Got the Residence Card today!! It took them 4 months and 2 weeks to do it. They didn't say anything about his 18-months' unemployment or not having SI.

Now I am going to apply on EEA4. Can anyone advise if I can just send over my husband's permanent residence card with my application and not send any of his employment confirmation papers (P60 and payslips)?

As for passports and asking them back. With my husband's application it took us 4 weeks to get his passport back after he'd requested it - and I am sure it would have taken much longer if we hadn't asked our MP to interfere.

[Jambo]

Update.

Got the Residence Card today!!

I presume you mean PR Confirmation following EEA3 application and not a Residence Card (following a EEA2 application).

Now I am going to apply on EEA4. Can anyone advise if I can just send over my husband's permanent residence card with my application and not send any of his employment confirmation papers (P60 and payslips)?

Just the blue booklet (and his passport). No need for the employment papers.

[lapkapups]

I presume you mean PR Confirmation following EEA3 application and not a Residence Card (following a EEA2 application).

Yes, that's what I mean, PR following EEA3 application.

Just the blue booklet (and his passport). No need for the employment papers.

That's perfect, thank you I think the booklet isn't blue, I haven't seen it yet as I was alreay at work when it came, but my husband said it's some other colour. However, I guess it doesn't matter.

[lapkapups]

Posted EEA4 application today.

Now have a question about passports return. On the website under European applications there is an email address I should email to to request the passports back and it should take 10 working days to get them. However, when I called HO with the same question they said I should download a form of documents' request under Contact Us general section and email it to the generic email mentioned in the form. I downloaded the form but it says there it will take 20 working days to get the documents back. Anybody knows which of the two ways I should use to ask for the passports?

By the way, when I called HO the phone was answered at once so I did not have to hold even for a few seconds and the person speaking to me was really polite and explained everything well. This is the first time someone spoke to me normally in the 7 years of my dealings with them. Is anything changing there or I was just lucky?

[jotter]

In a recent thread it was suggested that the best method was to write to them using traditional snail mail using special delivery. No harm in trying multiple methods though.

[lapkapups]

In a recent thread it was suggested that the best method was to write to them using traditional snail mail using special delivery. No harm in trying multiple methods though.

I think I'll try both methods then. As for sending them a traditional letter, I've enclosed a letter explaining the situation and asking for the passports together with the application. However, it didn't seem to make any difference as I received a COA yesterday (only one week after the application was sent - that was quick!) but I haven't got any passports.

[Plum70]

I received a COA yesterday (only one week after the application was sent - that was quick!)

The UKBA seem to have improved dramatically on the issuance of CoAs. Judging by recent timelines they're being despatched on average one week from application receipt.

[lapkapups]

The UKBA seem to have improved dramatically on the issuance of CoAs. Judging by recent timelines they're being despatched on average one week from application receipt.

It wouldn't be bad if they dramatically improved on the processing times as well

[lapkapups]

Hi again everyone!

I've got a question about passports return. I've asked for them to be sent back to us but HO said that if they do it they will put my application on hold until I send the passports back to them. This is totally new to me, I have never heard anything of the kind. They said they have to keep the original on file until the decision is made so if I request the passports the application won't be put in the queue.

Anybody heard about that?

[Plum70]

Hi again everyone!

I've got a question about passports return. I've asked for them to be sent back to us but HO said that if they do it they will put my application on hold until I send the passports back to them. This is totally new to me, I have never heard anything of the kind. They said they have to keep the original on file until the decision is made so if I request the passports the application won't be put in the queue.

Anybody heard about that?

I do not think this is correct. Once you receive a CoA your case is queued for a allocation to a caseworker. If your passport is returned then it merely stays on the queue until it is requested back.

When I applied for a RC in '08 and requested my passport back after a couple of months it was returned and when my RC application had been decided the UKBA requested it back. I applied for PR this October and have requested my passport.

Should be the same process now.

[flipper77]

Hi again everyone!

I've got a question about passports return. I've asked for them to be sent back to us but HO said that if they do it they will put my application on hold until I send the passports back to them. This is totally new to me, I have never heard anything of the kind. They said they have to keep the original on file until the decision is made so if I request the passports the application won't be put in the queue.

Anybody heard about that?

lapkapups,

From reading some of your other posts, it sounds like you sent your request to RODRequests@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk? Was it a response from that email address that told you that your application would be put on hold? I'm just wondering if it is some kind of standard response, which doesn't apply to EEA applications, but they've sent to you by mistake?

[lapkapups]

That's what I thought as well.

But the reply they gave us was "please cofirm you understand your application will be put on hold until you return your passports to us".

Not sure what to do in this case. Any ideas?

[lapkapups]

From reading some of your other posts, it sounds like you sent your request to RODRequests@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk? Was it a response from that email address that told you that your application would be put on hold? I'm just wondering if it is some kind of standard response, which doesn't apply to EEA applications, but they've sent to you by mistake?

I sent the request both to there and to the Liverpool email address. What happened was they returned one of the passports and kept the other one and the time frame for the return passed. I called them to find out what happened but they said they couldn't check until 6 months passed after the application date even though it was only for passports. We wrote to MP and MP's PA called them - that's her email that I quoted. She said they told her they'd send it back but then they'd put the application on hold as it's their "normal procedure" and she asked us if we are happy to go ahead with that.

[flipper77]

It really sounds to me that they are confused over it being an EEA application. It says on the EEA page: "A request for the return of your documents will not result in your application being considered quicker than our standard processing times. In some circumstances we may need to request the return of your documents to make a decision on your application.". This implies that not only will it not affect the time it takes for a decision to be made, but they likely won't even request your passport back.

I'd definitely go back to your MP and point out that this doesn't sound correct, and ask them to confirm. I'd make a point of asking when the application would be taken 'off hold' - as they prefer you don't send your passport/s back.

Also have a look at the casework instructions: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary (although strange that priority treatment and return of passports have been lumped together, but this seems to be the only instruction).

[lapkapups]

I'm not sure what is going on there. We wrote to MP providing the links to HO website where they give the info about passport return and also pointed out that before I applied I had called HO with this question and was told there wouldn't be any problem. However, MP merely replied that it does look strange but they don't have any explanation and the only thing they can do is to raise this question with Immigration Minister.

We asked for the passport back in any case and were told HO will write to us when they need them again. Which looks even more weird as if the application is "on hold" theoretically they shouldn't ever need the passports.

I'm just hoping someone mixed something and they won't suspend it.